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    so, the whole world is wearing masks and saying that it will help to save lives, and you have no desire to see how you can help?

    according to the statistics (and insurance rates), they are both a danger: the youngster is indeed driving dangerously (men under 25 are most dangerous per mile) and the old one should use Uber also (he is most dangerous per person). The younger one will, b’Ezrat Hashem, get older and change his opinion and start cursing younger people himself.

    Using Common’s root canal analogy, I am shocked why you argue with me on the statistics, given that it is my job.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    “and you have no desire to see how you can help? ”

    Well, you made this up too.

    Thanks for butchering the moshol. Did you really not understand that it was just to explain how point of reference effects perspective or was it just a troll tactic to avoid real conversation?

    You are shocked why i argue you on something you know well, yet have no problem arguing on things you don’t know much about. My job is reading between the lines and your omission of responding to valid points while distorting other points over and over clearly indicates either an inability to converse, a lack of desire to be corrected, or trolling. All three are, to me, pointless conversations. So in a sense, I guess, you win, as winning for you means diversion from discussing that which you don’t understand, or being called out.


    @AAQ, FYI I hold a ACAS and a CPCU certifcation so its my job too, and I still defer to a Rabbi or Doctor.
    History littered with malcontents who from the Doson and Averum to Korach to the Tzedukim to the Maskilm who said all you need to do is interpret according to your understanding and to heck with the Rabbis


    Common, got it. To clarify, not to brag, CPCU makes you a local Rav in statistics, while my qualification is closer to a minor posek – developing and evaluating new statistical procedures. for example, when your training data (think, Pfizer Phase 3) is not the same as later real-life data. It does not mean I can do your job, of course (same as a yeshiva teacher may not be the best in running a local congregation). Furthermore, given your impressive qualifications, you could definitely apply them in defending your position. Maybe your false humility prevents you from using your skills.

    And, back to paskening – your fear of modernishe tzudikim seems to prevent you to hear my arguments. I am calling you to dig deeper into your positions, and positions of your Rav/Posek, and I hear nothing in response.

    Maybe an example below will help clarify that reasoning behind a teshuva is important:
    1940, Jews in Vilno, most ran away from Poland, are sandwiched between Nazi and Soviet armies, the latter poised to enter Lithuania in a couple of months. The question was asked of R Grozdinski – should limited (Sugihara?) visas be given to older Rabbis (who will be quickly arrested by Soviets) or to younger Rabbis (whose children will be sent to Soviet school and lost). He answered – the older ones, with the explanation: (1) they will be better able to help the remaining ones when they reach US, (2) they’ll be of better use to American Jews. The explanation definitely focused the mind of those who asked and is something for us to ponder …


    the ACAS is where I have the acturial cert, not CPCU

    🍫Syag Lchochma

     “and I hear nothing in response”

    Except you did, you just didn’t like it.

    You keep thinking that saying it over and over will somehow make it acceptable that hearing old reasons allows us to reapply them to new cases based on what we consider parallels. Besides potentially being nogea bdavar, it’s not in our hands to do so. That’s what you don’t get. You think your smarts allows you to some permission based on deep understanding. You don’t get that your role is to understand deeply, and still turn to your rav for direction. It’s not yours to manipulate, extrapolate and apply. Period. Sorry you don’t like it. Stop trying to make it go away.


    Syag, I asked for input from your poskim and heard nothing back, except that you heard a Rabbi talking and di not quote anything from his thinkin. I brought multiple examples from my and other Rabbis. In terms of COVID, I am not doing anything that is not normative behavior by the Rabbis. They all wear masks in the street. Outside minyan is ran by a Rav. Having kids learn in online school was proposed by a Rav, while we were reluctant to do that. I think you are attacking a strawman here. It is easy to do, when we are just online avatars here.


    @always_ask_questions, We’ve been through the mask debate, all five pages of it, and we came to a mutual agreement (at least I think so).
    Why you are still posting about it is beyond me.


    MA, a good question

    It is an interesting, and important, new question, that can be used to explore various aspects of learning and midot. We all follow many cultural norms, dressing nicely on Shabbos, getting up when a Rav comes in, or greeting people with a smile. Most people do it. We (collectively) spent hundreds of books about these topics. Here is a new issue on which “we” spent maybe hundreds of pages. I learn more about a person listening to his thoughts about masks, then asking about his subtle minhagim of sitting in a sukkah.


    “opinions of modern orthodox posters who don’t hold of daas torah”

    I am reminded of the old joke that we modern orthodox don’t hold of Daas Torah because Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l told us not to.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    That’s cute. Im close with one of the nephews, I’ll have to ask him for his take on that joke because I know he would not make a move without daas torah. And I am assuming you know what their take on open Orthodoxy is as well…


    sounds like you went to the same BY as some of my daughters, where “modern” was used as a generic put-down. There is no connection between O-O and Rav Soloveichik’s Torah. Whether his approach allowed some of his followers go into unreasonable positions is a legitimate question, of course.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    “sounds like you went to the same BY as some of my daughters, where “modern” was used as a generic put-down. ”

    Nope. I went to a religious zionist coed day school and went to religious zionist youth groups and summer camps until my late teens. Most of my peers became secular non observant adults, many joined the yeshivish community and a few moved to Israel to join religious zionist communities that don’t really exist here. Modern orthodoxy proved to be unsustainable and i made changes so i could hope for a committed lineage.

    “There is no connection between O-O and Rav Soloveichik’s Torah. ”

    Exactly my point

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    I would just like to add that one of my classmates did move on to become a musser zogger.

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