Question for Jewish Democrats

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  • #1658541

    1
    Participant

    If Stalin promised yeshiva funding, would you still endorse him and vote for him in a primary? With people like Tlaib Omar and Cortez, what level of radical left is acceptable?

    #1658560

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    1
    There were no primaries in the USSR, there was one party.

    I would vote against any candidate for public office in a non-theocracy who promised yeshiva funding, or Catholic school funding or any other money for religious education at taxpayers expense, and YES, I oppose school vouchers.

    Neither Omar or Ocasio-Cortez ran in my district or state, so I did not have to choose to acceot or reject them. BTW, get Congresswoman’s Ocasio-Cortez’s name correct, otherwise I’ll start referring to you as One-Half.

    What you may consider radical others might not. Since you are not a registered Democrat it is none of your business who the members of that party choose to run for office, you only get to vote for or not for the candidate on the ballot.
    I would not have voted for either one. I am fine with Congressman Jim Himes, reelected in the Connecticut 4th district.
    Here in New England there is not a single Republican representing our 6 states in the House of Representatives. No one will call most New Englanders radical we are far too traditional for that,.

    I suggest you troll somewhere else. This is you one response in this new thread

    Edited

    #1658573

    1
    Participant

    I know. You still think we’re still living under a new deal government, in your Connecticut suburb.

    #1658574

    1
    Participant

    Elizabeth Warren isn’t a radical? Her base consists of young socialist democrats.

    #1658575

    1
    Participant

    You don’t support any policy that’s favorable to Jews.

    #1658599

    Avi K
    Participant

    In any case, the O.P. specifically addressed Democrats and asked their views on the leftward, antisemitic lurch of their party.

    #1658704

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Avi
    “the O.P. specifically addressed Democrats and asked their views on the leftward, antisemitic lurch of their party.”

    Are we reading the same op?.

    I thought he was asking about the general education in our yeshivos, given that he raised the possibility of “Stalin promised Yeshiva funding”

    In order for that sentence to make any sense you have to not know who Stalin or not know what Yeshiva is. (I suppose you can also not know what funding means for the sentence to work)

    #1658719

    1
    Participant

    I didn’t raise any possibility. I asked a theoretical question.

    #1658720

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    You may interpret #1 the trolls post as you wish, but he did not ask the question you state. He was specific about 3 people, totally inaccurate about a dead Soviet and asked about acceptable levels of radical leftists. He NEVER mentioned anti-semitism. That is not acceptable from left or the right including Republicans inclusing Nixox (as long as were posting names of dead leaders).

    #1658721

    1
    Participant

    Avi understands the sentiment. Liberals have a flawed thought process

    #1658712

    Avi K
    Participant

    Ubiquitin,
    The title of the thread is “Question for Jewish Democrats” and the O.P. asked if they would vote for Stalin in a primary, obviously being sarcastic although (in most of the NE they would probably vote for him in the general election as they are programmed to vote Dem) and what are their views on the acceptable left limit.

    Edited

    #1658734

    Eli Y
    Participant

    I’ve learned that those Jews who support government antithetical to the redemption of Zion are composed of the souls of those who reversed their bris in the day of the Hasmoneans.

    #1658779

    1
    Participant

    Yes, but the local askan spends more resources on the primary.

    #1658780

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    ” the O.P. asked if they would vote for Stalin in a primary,”

    What does that mean?
    would we vote for some guy named Stalin if he was promising funding to yeshivos?

    you go on to reinterpret the question “on the leftward, antisemitic lurch of their party.”
    Please explain to me how Stalin promising funding to yeshivos would make him anti-semitic.
    does this thread really make sense to you?

    1.
    “I didn’t raise any possibility. I asked a theoretical question.”

    I’d love to understand the difference. can you elaborate on the difference between a “possibility” and how a “theoretical question” works when it doesn’t involve something that is possible (ie a possibility)

    #1658794

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    CTLAWYER, it’s called sarcasm. As you sit in your compound, maybe you didn’t understand the hyperbole of the Stalin reference.

    #1658809

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @anon

    I know what sarcasm is. #1 is but a right wing troll looking to stir the pot and I give him one response per thread at this point.

    If he doesn’t like the Dems in control in the northeast move to the flyover zone. I ‘m sure he’ll find the red necks very tolerant of his ilk.

    #1658846

    Avi K
    Participant

    Ubiquitin, the primary is an election to see who will be the party’s candidate,

    CTL, so anyone who points out problems with the DP is a right-wing troll? You should stay in your safe space where no one can threaten you. As a famous Democrat said, if you can;t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

    #1658845

    1
    Participant

    But it got you to write a long answer.

    #1658838

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Avi

    You have to get better at recognizing trolling/satire (its often hard to tell the difference).

    You seem to take “1”‘s posts a bit seriously. Lines like “If Stalin promised yeshiva funding…” or “Is it Assur to vote for a Democrat? Every issue on the party platform, is against Torah Jewry.” Aren’t meant to be taken seriously.

    lighten up.
    and recognize when standing by a comment that doesn’t make any sense, hurts your position rather than helps it.

    #1658879

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Avi

    “Ubiquitin, the primary is an election to see who will be the party’s candidate,”

    Ok I’m with you so far.
    So the question was “If Stalin promised yeshiva funding, would you still endorse him and vote for him in a primary? ” (which I now know what it is)

    Is this taking place in 2019? Is Stalin still alive? Is it joseph Stalin or is it Frank Stalin? Is he still a communist? Is he still an anti-semite? If so why is he promising yeshiva funding? Who is his opponent?

    #1658892

    Joseph
    Participant

    How could a Jew be affiliated with the Democrats?!?

    #1658900

    1
    Participant

    Ask CTLawyer or the NY Agudah Lobby

    #1658904

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Joseph

    by following R’ Avigdor Miller

    “Let me give you a mashal. Suppose you see two candidates: One is being backed by, let’s say, all the Nazis. All the Nazis say to vote for this candidate. Now the other man does not have the endorsement of the Nazis. Are you going to ask, “What did this other candidate do for me?” No – you don’t ask any questions! If this candidate is being endorsed by the Nazis then the other candidate is the one.”

    #1658935

    1
    Participant

    The radical Marxist academics and Muslims pose a bigger problem today.

    #1658992

    MDG
    Participant

    From CTL: “…move to the flyover zone. ”

    Spoken like a true Democrat. Elitist and condescending. Contempt for most people in America.

    #1659030

    2scents
    Participant

    “If Stalin promised yeshiva funding, would you still endorse him and vote for him in a primary?”

    -No.

    “With people like Tlaib Omar and Cortez, what level of radical left is acceptable?”

    -Regardless of the party line affiliation, most radical people are dangerous. If one supports a radical candidate only because they are affiliated with their party line, they need to take a look at their values.

    #1658943

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    CTL, that’s so tolerant of you. Everyone in flyover country is a redneck. Can you be a little more condescending and bigoted?

    #1659079

    klugeryid
    Participant

    What he meant to say was as follows as a lawyer you should have been able to figure this out
    if Stalin using Stalin as a hypothetical person do to his well-known stance of being a terrible anti-semite were to run in a American Primary as a Democrat would you vote for him if he were to hold out the carat of giving funding to your favorite Institution
    now we are currently aware that you as a lawyer are of the opinion that any politician who offers money to a religious institution should not be voted in so we know your personal answer is no however this question was thrown out to the General Public would you therefore vote for a known anti-semite in an American Primary because he is a Democrat offering money to your local Institution if the answer is yes then say yes if the answer is no then how could you possibly still be voting for the Democrat Party with such people in there as Talib and ocasio-cortez that was the original posters question
    brevity is the soul of wit learn it well

    #1659074

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Why am I being blocked

    You’re not, why do you think that you are? -33

    #1659093

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @anon
    To quote you from this morning:
    “it’s called sarcasm.”

    If you (or anyone else) don’t like your elected officials, get involved in politics. Join your Town Party Committee, attend Board and Commission meetings, run for elected office. Become a delegate top state and/or national conventions and have a vote on the platform.
    You may win or lose, but this is the only way to effect change when you are not happy with the local politics.
    Democracy (even a republican model) is a participatory form of government.

    I have done all of the above for more than 45 years.
    I am far from elitist, my social circles cross economic and ethnic divides.
    I have had townspeople call me elitist because my children attended ‘private schools’. I dare say most CR readers/posters who raised children in the USA also did not send them to public schools., but that does not make us elitist.
    Mrs. CTL and I worked hard for what we have amassed, it was not inherited. The compound grew with the sweat of our brows. Don’t ask how many nails I hammered, how many sheets of dry wall we both hung, etc.

    That said I’d gladly pay higher taxes to provide for the greater good in our society. America welcomed my forebears when they escaped the anti-semitism in mid 19th century Germany and Russia, and I believe in giving back and extending opportunities to newcomers.

    #1659104

    MDG
    Participant

    “I am far from elitist, my social circles cross economic and ethnic divides.”

    That’s like people who say I’m not racist; I have a black friend. We know where that’s at.

    #1659100

    jdf007
    Participant

    I don’t get it. Some of you state there are no primaries in the USSR because there is only one party. Iraq had elections, Saddam got about 99% or 97% of the vote. Check out some of those districts in California. Pelosi won once with 93%. And then, what’s the deal with cities like New York where you assume there is no challenger in these elections?

    Looks like a one party system to me.

    #1659111

    1
    Participant

    Getting involved in Connecticut where there are 50 people is a not different than in NY

    #1659125

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Mod 33
    Cause my comment disappeared

    There were two very similar posts, and I thought you wrote the second because the first didn’t appear right away. So I approved one of the two. Posts “disappear” when they are pending moderation, and then reappear when approved. Your patience is appreciated.

    #1659147

    MDG
    Participant

    “Don’t ask how many nails I hammered, how many sheets of dry wall we both hung, etc.”

    I thought you were a successful lawyer, who started 6-7 businesses, according to your bragging.
    But now comes some poor-mouthing to sound like you’re a man of the people. You really are a Democrat.

    #1659160

    klugeryid
    Participant

    K. I post here very spotty. It used to show me that it’s awaiting moderation. It doesn’t do that anymore. Sorry. BTW the one you didn’t approve was more detailed

    #1659194

    Avi K
    Participant

    Ubiquitin, suppose all the Nazis endorsed a candidate who said “Send all the Jews to Israel”? How about if all the Communists said “No. Force them to be good proletarians here”?

    CTL, be generous with you own money and not with others’. We learn this from Avraham Avinu who would not take a shoelace after the war but made sure that his soldiers were paid. He then took a huge amount from Avimelech being that he owed money to the hoteliers. Besides, who says that government always improves society? Maybe it sometimes improves society by staying out of the way.

    #1659196

    Avi K
    Participant

    Ubiquitin, of course, I meant that the Commies endorsed the other candidate.

    #1659220

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @mdg
    If you have read my many posts over the years you will find that Mrs. CTL and I do not come from privilege, but the middle class.
    My parents afforded themselves of the free excellent college education offered by City and Hunter Colleges in the 1930s and bettered their lives. Yes, I went to an Ivy League University and Law School and paid for my education by working full time while in college.
    We bought a 200 year old fixer upper and continually remodeled and added on, doing most of the labor ourselves. I built a successful private law practice, but still cut my own lawn, take out the trash, paint and do hone repairs and do virtually all the cooking and laundry (Mrs. CTL has been ill for a number of years).
    The money we make is used for both tzedaka and ensuring our family is with us. All of our grandchildren are here for the summer, not away at expensive camps, as well as Pesach and all the Yomin Tovom, The amenities of the compound (as we call it, as MIL lived in the house adjoining us, and SIl a few doors down, and not married daughter and family there) cost far less than than camp and expensive vacations.
    I drive a car that I bought new 15 years ago, My suits are made to measure, I’m not an off the rack size, but I am as likely to wear a suit made 12 years ago as this year. Good is good, buy the best you can afford and nothing that is a fad and it will last, sage words from my OMA.
    To put it simply, we don’t waste or squander money. Mrs CTL and I having started and sold a number of successful businesses (and we had a few failures as well) has enabled us to contribute to Jewish and secular institutions for the betterment of the community.
    As for being a Democrat, I find that political party is far more in accord with the concept of Tikun Olam than the Republicans. I vote candidate, not party. This past November I voted for 4 Republican candidates as well as 9 Democrats when I filled out my ballot.

    #1659234

    Takes3tomakemangos
    Participant

    1. You people will argue about anything.
    And its the same arguements every time.
    “No, you said the word the, you clearly do know the proper use of the word. Go back to your cave.”
    ” youre such a zionist.”
    “Nobody cares about your opinion troll”
    “If you have nothing smart to say dont open your mouth.”
    “Apples=apples”
    “Huh? Nuh uh apples equals tomatoes.”

    And on and on.

    2. Thank G-d you said tikkun olam. Now we know.
    Tikkun olam is a non orthodox concept. There is no such concept in the Torah. Well, at least not how you mean it.

    What a chiddush, do you mean to say that the democratic party is more in line with tikkun olam?
    Genius, the entire concept of tikkun olam was made up by liberal jews. Of course their party will “be more in line with tikkun olam.”

    #1659423

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    1,

    “If Stalin promised yeshiva funding, would you still endorse him and vote for him in a primary?”

    הֱווּ זְהִירִין בָּרָשׁוּת, שֶׁאֵין מְקָרְבִין לוֹ לָאָדָם אֶלָּא לְצֹרֶךְ עַצְמָן. נִרְאִין כְּאוֹהֲבִין בִּשְׁעַת הֲנָאָתָן, וְאֵין עוֹמְדִין לוֹ לָאָדָם בִּשְׁעַת דָּחְקוֹ

    Both parties have elements in their platforms that would be helpful to the Jewish community. Both have elements that are contrary or antithetical to Torah values. As a religious Jew, I think it’s foolish to get married to one party and sling mud at the other, like it’s “your” baseball team vs a rival. One day the Republicans control the government. The next day it’s the Democrats. Both will court Jewish votes when it serves them, and will stop when it no longer serves them. Why not judge each candidate as s/he comes and vote for who you think will do the best job in that office, and avoid casting American Jewry onto transactional and ephermeral support while antagonizing half of the other people in the country?

    #1659436

    lakewhut
    Participant

    The democrat party is worse for us in 2019. We shouldn’t be endorsing people like Cuomo or We Blasio.

    #1659483

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ takes3

    “Tikkun olam is a non orthodox concept. There is no such concept in the Torah. Well, at least not how you mean it… the entire concept of tikkun olam was made up by liberal jews.”

    This is a mistake. The concept of tikkun olam is very much Torah concept. What the secularists did was perverted the concept and used it as a substitute for Torah and Mitzvot.

    Chessed is one of the 3 pillars of the world. Rav Moshe called America a medina shel chessed. He didn’t mean that they learn and live Tomer Devorah or Chumash Rashi. Now, chessed can be perverted. It can also be used as a substitute to Torah. That’s bad. Very. That doesn’t mean one gets to say that chessed is not a Torah concept.

    שלי שלי ושלך שלך זה מדה בינוני וי”א זה מידת סדום

    On the other hand how can a frum Yid support a Party that (for starters)
    -supports abortion on demand, partial birth abortions, funding planned parenthood even after…
    -supports same gender “marriages”, supports mandatory education that such unions are moral
    -is openly pro Palestinian / anti-Israel (even the better ones among them equivocate between them)

    #1659860

    Oh man! Will you guys stop acting like a bunch of kids? Stop with the personal insults and stick to the topic .

    #1659931

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    So, let me get this straight…

    If you don’t like his points feel free to address them. And don’t pretend that that is what you were “blocked” from saying.  The rest of your comment doesn’t warrant a response.

    #1659939

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    And why not let through the part of the post that was actually about the topic? Because you love CT’s crazy leftist ideas and don’t want to let anyone see the opposition?

    Editing instead of deleting is a favor not an obligation.

    #1659976

    2scents
    Participant

    I did have a chance to read Nevilles post, not sure why it was edited. To me it seemed pretty relevant to the discussion and he tried making a point, regardless if we liked it or not.

    #1660013

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Mangoes
    “Tikkun olam is a non orthodox concept. There is no such concept in the Torah. Well, at least not how you mean it”
    Sorry, Chesed is a Torah concept, you don’t like the appellation I attached.
    The Republican party currently benefits the extremely rich and hurts the rest.

    Stripping the guts out of the Affordable Care Act is not Chesed.
    Threatening to Cut Social Security and Medicare is not Chesed
    Separating children from parents and incarcerating them in camps is not chesed (ask any shoah survivor).
    Doing away with or loosening clean water regulations so that we can’t eat domestic lettuce farmed with filthy water doesn’t help the populace.

    Forcing people to have back alley abortions doesn’t help anyone. Better not to abort, but if it is done it should be done ion a safe and clean medical center. As the parent of an adopted child I am not pro-abortion, but would not put my religious beliefs into secular law.
    There is a big difference between enabling legislation than forcing someone to do something by law.
    The fact that abortion and same sex marriage is legal doesn’t mean anyone in the CR will partake; which is why I don’t see these things as a threat.
    I am more likely to suffer a gunshot than be affected by a legal abortion, so I support gun controls.

    @lakewhut
    The NY politicians you mentioned are an issue only for NY residents until they choose to run for a nationwide office.
    We must separate local parties and their platforms from national parties and their platforms,
    I live in a Town that has been run by Republicans for many decades, I was a minority elected local official. About 10 years ago a dozen members of the local Republican Party got fed up with the mean spirited way their local party was running the town and jumped ship to the Democrats. They are observant Catholics, pro-life, conservative etc. That said, in order to have a say in the way the town was run they had to join the opposition party and run for office as Dems. They don’t have to support the state or national platform. They receive no campaign financing from those entities.
    The USA is not a Parliamentary system country. We don’t vote for party lists, Americans are not card carrying members of political parties, don’t day party dues and don’t read party affiliated newspapers

    #1660049

    MDG
    Participant

    Tikun Olam is a Jewish concept. We mention it 3 times a day in Aleinu. The problem is when it is taken out of context. We say we are to metaken olam bemalchut Shaddai. Our tikun olam is based on Hashem.
    The non-frum base it on what feels nice at the time, which can (and often does) cause eventual destruction and cruelty.
    50,000,000 Americans have been slaughtered, but women need their freedom.

    #1660056

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Social security is a tax on the poor and the non-white.

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