Rav Moshe Feinstein-Chalav Stam Story

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  • #1149356
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Who says that if Rav Moshe know the small fine thats involved would he have been Ok’ed it.

    Rav Moshe tz”l knew about the small fine involved. See Igros Moshe 1:48

    #1149357

    I heard the story again (again second hand) from a totally different source.

    #1149358
    Joseph
    Participant

    It’s a famous, well known, story.

    #1149359
    maitiv
    Participant

    The story is true, but the person made a few mistakes.

    1. It was with Reb Moishe Weinstein not Feinstein

    2. He did not drink cholov stam, he had drank a cup of salad dressing that his daughter stored in a cholov stam bottle.

    3. Nobody saw him throw it up because he went to the bathroom for that.

    4. The story is written in a sefer which was unfortunately destroyed since the ksav yad was eaten by the mechaber’s pet racoon, but bederech ness many of the stories in that remarkable ksav yad have survived and been retold for many years, some say the racoon had a photographic memory since he was a gilgul of a great illuy and the racoon told over what he had digested.

    5. What is certainly true is that a kid on Clifton and 3rd who had drank too many beers and vomited all over the sidewalk admitted that he had a cholov stam ice cream before the beer and that was why it looked such a light color, and when his mother was screaming at him he said that he had a lot of cholov stam ice cream and only one beer.

    #1149361
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    According to you there may be some revisionism, acc. to others there may not be. It is subjective.

    I think I was mistaken, revisionism is an objective question. People may have opposing views, but it is still an objective question.

    #1149362
    Joseph
    Participant

    JT: You seem to have been on a mission over the last few months to retract your posts from the last year. What gives?

    #1149363
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant
    #1149364
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant
    #1149365

    I call bubba meisa.

    #1149366

    I know I’m responding to a really old post, but kosher was asking what happens to the millions of gallons of pig milk. The answer to that is very simple. The millions of piglets in America use it all up. Pigs do not produce much milk, and are also very hard to milk. Therefore, typically, the baby pigs get to stay with the mother until they are ready to eat slop and then the mother no longer produces the milk. The end. There is no large supply of milk that the pig man is looking to get rid of.

    #1149367
    #1149368
    #1149369
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Joseph- I may not have seen all of my posts but when I did see some that I felt were incorrect I tried to correct them.

    I guess you can call it a “mission”.

    #1149370
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Joseph- My main point is that I didn’t go through deeply on my posts on halacha and there may be some mistakes there.

    So there may be corrections there that are needed but again this is an informal CR so I tell people not to rely on me.

    #1149371
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    The truth is, Joseph, is that I have probably seen all of my posts. Not all have corrections, usually bec. I am unsure if they are right or wrong.

    My second post to you was addressing a different point, not exactly in context. Sorry.

    #1149372
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    And I may think some of my posts are right and they may be completely wrong, I am only human.

    #1149373

    Your subtitle already says not to rely on you. I don’t think you need to remind everyone on every post you make.

    #1149374
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant
    #1149375
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    The truth is, Joseph, is that I have probably seen all of my posts. Not all have corrections, usually bec. I am unsure if they are right or wrong.

    Some may find this ironic but part of this post ( part about why some of my posts may not have corrections) is mistaken, I believe.

    #1149376
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    What I meant when I said it was mistaken is that the issue is more complex than I originally realized.

    #1149377
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Joseph- My main point is that I didn’t go through deeply on my posts on halacha and there may be some mistakes there.

    So there may be corrections there that are needed but again this is an informal CR so I tell people not to rely on me.

    There is an important point missing. That, being the possible complex nature of halacha and the fact that I am not trained in the manner of psak, I would not feel comfortable telling people to rely on me here.

    #1149378

    Mr. Thinker, I think people are much less, or not at all, inclined to rely on your word and instead are probably mildly concerned about your well being. I hope you are aware that you appear unusually anxious about these posts and I also hope you have support in real life.

    #1149379
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant
    #1149380
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Not all have corrections, usually bec. I am unsure if they are right or wrong.

    Some may find this ironic but part of this post ( part about why some of my posts may not have corrections) is mistaken, I believe.

    What I meant when I said it was mistaken is that the issue is more complex than I originally realized.

    I was working on those posts and I think I solved the issue, B”H.

    #1149381
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Anyway, getting back on topic, DY, I thought pigs’ milk was illegal in the US?

    #1149382
    lesschumras
    Participant

    Then what do piglets drink?

    #1149383

    Horse milk.

    #1149384
    apushatayid
    Participant

    They don’t drink. Pugs have been on the wagon for over a decade now.

    #1149385
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    I read that pigs are pretty hard to milk.

    #1149386

    Probably tastes good enough to be worth the effort.

    #1149387
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    I think camels’ milk in federal law is legal so some states I believe do allow sale of it.

    #1149388
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Has anyone here ever milked a pig?

    #1149389
    #1149390
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    I read it in an article from Rabbi Avrohom Gordimer:

    #1149391
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The reason pigs arent milk is they are not domesticated like cows and do not like being milked, they are alot more wilder and the udders are alot stiffer than a cows udder making it more difficult to milk.

    The only non-kosher animals who is sometimes milked is a camel, but you dont really see that in the US, but you might see it elsewhere

    #1149392
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    (Just to harp back to my posts about fixing mistakes, when I said the issue is more complex I wasn’t referring to a different category of posts, rather discussing the same category of posts [posts that I was unsure were right or wrong]) {Also, “than I originally realized”, I did realize it, should say “than I originally wrote”}

    zahavasdad- More from the article:

    only commercial camel milk company is based. (This company operates a handful of farms consisting of six camels each.)”

    #1149393
    rebtsvi
    Participant

    After Rav Moshe died his son in law did an article about his shver and said the story was not true. Plus numerous members of the Feinstein home recall eating Chalav Stam ice cream at home.

    It’s just not true.

    #1149394
    Joseph
    Participant

    That SIL isn’t reliable regarding Rav Moshe. He’s on the record as citing Rav Moshe for things that turned out to be patently not correct. There’s even a letter from Rav Moshe Sherer calling out numerous instances, both during Rav Moshe’s lifetime and afterwards, when he distorted the view of Rav Moshe. Rabbi Sherer confronted him in Rav Moshe’s presence about one such instance when he had deceived NYS legislators about Rav Moshe’s view, after which Rav Moshe had a letter written on MTJ’s letterhead informing the legislator that his view was the opposite of what his SIL claimed.

    #1149396

    Also, yes, there was cholov stam in the Feinstein home. What does that have to do with the story?

    #1149397
    mw13
    Participant

    Joseph:

    Where can these three letters (“He’s on the record as citing Rav Moshe for things that turned out to be patently not correct”, “There’s even a letter from Rav Moshe Sherer calling out numerous instances, both during Rav Moshe’s lifetime and afterwards, when he distorted the view of Rav Moshe”, “Rav Moshe had a letter written on MTJ’s letterhead informing the legislator that his view was the opposite of what his SIL claimed”) be found?

    #1149398
    justsmile613
    Participant

    all I know is, if Rav Moshe was ok with Cholov Stam in certain situations then I am.period.

    #1149399

    He was also not okay with it in some situations.

    So you have to contemplate (if you want to follow R’ Moshe) whether your situation is more similar to the ones he was okay with or the ones he was not okay with.

    #1149400
    Joseph
    Participant

    mw13, google: Download Rabbi Moshe Sherer to Rabbi Moshe D. Tendler (18 November 1991)-1

    Choose the first pdf. And read the contents of that letter on Agudah stationary from Rabbi Sherer. Rabbi Sherer references the other letter and events.

    #1149401
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Be careful any story about a Gadol, you never know if they are true or not even if the reporter claims they are

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/411949/the-hoax-about-dayan-roth-remarrying-his-wife-a-halachic-analysis.html

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