Reader Responds to Seminary Woes
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- This topic has 24 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by Phil.
May 7, 2020 2:03 am at 2:03 am #1858111anhy123Participant
I definately agree that staying home should be the first option for those who don’t have the means to send to Eretz Yisroel. However, there does not exist in every community an option to stay in town. For some girls they need that year away from home. Girls who come from large families and especially if they are the oldest will now have the chance to get away from home and grow without having the responsibilities that they had at home. Each family has to look at it for themselves – Do we have the money? Will my daughter use this year properly? Will she benefit more from in town or out of town?May 7, 2020 8:24 am at 8:24 am #1858142anonymous JewParticipant
Hmm, the OP is presenting the following choice for their child:
A. Spend $30,000 get their child away from responsibilities
at home. OR
B. Spend $0 and assume child is not home and change
Seems like a simple choiceMay 7, 2020 8:25 am at 8:25 am #1858145commonsaychelParticipant
Take the 8-12 K that it cost and give three quarters of that the keren yesomim campaigns and with the remainder send her to a local one, people managed with simple weddings, bucherim can manage without the zman in EY and so can the sem girls.
One of the silver linings of covid 19 is that we discovered that we can make due with less.May 7, 2020 8:40 am at 8:40 am #1858197
There’s a benefit of Limud Torah for many bochorim learning in Yeshiva in Eretz Yisroel. OTOH, seminary there is more of a vacation fun-filled excursion for girls compared to seminary locally.May 7, 2020 8:55 am at 8:55 am #1858203
Your three responses obviously come from bias and over opinionated -ness (can’t think of an alternative word) that shows up often with this topic. I sure hope no girl ever misses out on what could be a very valuable experience for her because of armchair complainers who don’t mind generalizing their personal opinions as if they belong to everyone.
OP- you probably have a good idea about whether or not your daughter will benefit. If she isn’t a rule follower, if she is a risk taker, if she rarely comes home before midnight, if you don’t usually know where she is at any given moment,if she tells you why she wants to go to seminary and non of her reasons sound like healthy productive ones then maybe a year in another country isn’t the place for her. Unless of course you find the right place, in which case it will be the best place of all.May 7, 2020 10:25 am at 10:25 am #1858227
If she rarely comes home before midnight, is a risk taker, isn’t a rule follower or you don’t usually know where she is at any given moment then she’s gone wrong well before seminary. Such a parent will have issues much bigger than where to send her to seminary.May 7, 2020 10:52 am at 10:52 am #1858236commonsaychelParticipant
@syag I didn’t bring any bias to my comment, my son and multiple nephews and nieces didn’t go to EY this year because of corona and guess what, we all managed just fine.
We managed with less and life went on.May 7, 2020 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1858246
The average girl/most girls do not need to go overseas for seminary. They’d benefit from a domestic seminary just as well, if ruchniyus is the consideration.
Even if they miss the visits to the Dead Sea, Masada and Machne Yehuda.May 7, 2020 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1858259
common – Of course you managed, B”H you managed! But managing is a whole different topic. A majority of people who lose parents at a young age manage, they lose their wallet and manage, they have to live locked in their homes for weeks on end and manage. Managing is about surviving, taking what you are given and coming out alive/ahead. I am hoping people can make decisions based on what is good or best for them, not based on with what they are able to manage. And for some people, it is sending someone to seminary, not keeping them home, that leads to them having to manage with less. 🙂
May you continue managing in good health, and may Hashem bless you and yours with everything you need to not just manage but thrive!!May 7, 2020 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1858274anonymous JewParticipant
Syag, no bias here. My granddaughter had decided months ago not to go. My daughter went years ago for 1 and 1/2 years. She has always been level headed and responsible and did very well there. However, it’s not for every girl , or boy for that matter.May 7, 2020 12:22 pm at 12:22 pm #1858305
“The average girl/most girls do not need to go overseas for seminary. They’d benefit from a domestic seminary just as well, if ruchniyus is the consideration.”
Joseph, it’s always a hoot to hear you weigh in on topics of what is good for girls. Kind of creepy actually to hear you speak as if you would have up to date info that allows you to have such a definitive opinion. Not comfortable with that at all. I have found thru your posting that you don’t really have an awareness of any life outside of New York so speaking for a portion of the population is just not shiach. I have also learned that you love throwing in comments about things that will cause commotion and what better than discounting the value of seminary – even if you couldn’t possibly (hopefully) have enough exposure to females to make your case.May 7, 2020 12:22 pm at 12:22 pm #1858304
“However, it’s not for every girl , or boy for that matter. ”
Which is a major point I was trying to make, and one that you absolutely mis-portrayed in your previous post. Thank you for clarifying that it is not for every girl or boy, which means that it is also not for no girl or boy.May 7, 2020 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #1858386
“Not comfortable with that at all. ”
Syag, when posting comments, your comfort level reacting to truths I post are of no relevance in my consideration when sharing useful and beneficial information to the public. Even if some choose to bury their head in the sand and remain in absolute denial to what they believe as some kind of gospel. Having successfully seen through multiple generations of children and adults schooling, I am quite acquainted with the system both domestically and internationally.May 7, 2020 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1858415
“when sharing useful and beneficial information to the public”
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣May 7, 2020 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #1858432RedlegParticipant
Joseph, there is a Yiddish saying, ” A Goyishe vertel iz, l’havdil, a Toyreh.”. In that vein, you would do well to heed the famous ma’amar of Sen. Patrick Moynehan. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They’re not entitled to their own facts.” Your OPINION vis a vis sem in Israel is reasonable, but it doesn’t necessarily contitue TRUTH.May 7, 2020 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #1858433jdbParticipant
I feel for parents with the cost of the year or two on learning in EY for young men and women. As an outsider who hosts these young Americans for shabbos throughout the year, I can tell you with certainty that it is a game changer for so many.
They gain Independence, confidence, an identity within am Yisrael. They realize who they want to be, and start life off with a former foundation. If you are ready to send your daughters to college and the workplace, it is best to build up an independant sense of who and why they are who they are. This simply doesn’t happen the same way for many when they are still close to home.May 7, 2020 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1858455The little I knowParticipant
Perhaps there are times and places that decisions need to be made with external considerations. But I suggest that the decision where to send a child to yeshiva, Bais Yaakov, seminary, etc. is best made with the main interest the child him/herself. The system has evolved to where there is such a thing as “the seminary 1-2 years in Israel”, or “the 1-2 years in yeshiva in Israel”. These generalizations are potentially hazardous. If a bochur or girl is right for the trip to E”Y and the yeshiva or seminary, then it is a wise consideration. To go there because others do is plainly stupid, and a huge risk. I eat when i am hungry, not when yenem is hungry.
There are certain realities that we face, and are easily blinded by the baseless sending to E”Y. The extent of hashgacha on a bochur or girl is minimal. Being absent from yeshiva may go unnoticed. There are countless excuses to be AWOL. There are countless places to go, many are mekomos hakedoshim, others sightseeing and touring. There are countless places to eat, and people to visit. There are also lots of events like protests and similar drama that many question their validity altogether, but are, at the very least, potentially huge distractions from the purpose of going to E”Y.
There are also risks there. At least 20-some years ago, there was a brilliant article in the Jewish Press authored by a social worker, Chezi Goldberg A”H HY”D. He begged American families to please not send their teens with issues to the streets of Jerusalem. He was consulted by way too many who were fighting the scourge of drugs that had assaulted the young people and were claiming lives. I have personal knowledge of tens of cases (and I am informed the real number is much higher than that) of kids sent back to enter rehabs back home.
There is no gezairoh that bochurim or girls must learn in E”Y. Nor is it fair to judge the yeshivos and seminaries in comparison. Together with the heightened kedusha there, there is a corresponding level of yetzer horah. The external presentation of a boy or girl fails to serve as the basis to judge whether this task is for them or not.
Often, the prolonged connection at home is an asset. And sometimes it is better for the teen to be elsewhere. These are all individual judgments. Making this into a trend is criminally irresponsible.
I went to E”Y for a few years, and thrived. I had friends that did not. And this predated the drug risks there. I eat when I am hungry, not yenem.May 7, 2020 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #1858474
Redleg: I’ll accept that exhortation from you. Thank youMay 8, 2020 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #1858858yochyParticipant
I am a boy and didnt go to EY and don’t think my life is any different of would have been much better had I gone. I learned in yeshiva in America and believe it or not here I am today quite learned I think. For thousands of years we did not have a procedure of going to Israel for a year to learn so not sure when this has become the 11th commandment. I am not saying that it is not nice to go there but it should be far from a requirement or status symbol.May 10, 2020 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #1859102rationalParticipant
Jews from all over the world have the opportunity to visit, study and even live in the Land that God watches over and has given to the Jewish people as a Morashah. To see and walk on the same roads as Avraham Avinu. To see the lands that Yehoshua conquered, that the shvatim shared, the land of Gidon, Shmuel, Dvora. The land that we are all about and that is the single major topic in all Kitvei Hakodesh.
How sad that one reads here that it is a trivial and unnecessary parcel of land. No need to visit, no need to have it as part of our lives. We’ve done without it for so long, who needs it now. Afra L’pumayih.May 10, 2020 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1859108fastensaulParticipant
in my opinion, unless the girl is going to teach hebrew subjects, seminary is superfluous. the cocollege credits received are much more reasonable here. i asked my daughter if she intended to teach, and when she said no, we made plans to educate her for a good and respectable parnasah. we have not regretted thathat decision.May 10, 2020 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #1859184CTRebbeParticipant
The questions of is seminary beneficial or not seems to be all theoretical. Let’s say we all agree that the world would not lose anything if all seminaries closed up tomorrow. How does that that help our present situation when there is a tremendous societal where 90-97% of the girls go? What can be done to reverse the trend? Do you want to be the parent who tells your sweet daughter “I don’t care if all your friends are going. We decided it is not beneficial for you”. It is one thing if the girl herself does not want to go. But it is not a simple move to just tell your kid “sorry not for you” (unless of course you really really can’t afford it)May 10, 2020 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1859191
Parnassa is the husband’s job. Wives are not intended to be our of the home and in the business world pursuing a career. That was never the Torah way and lhavdil it was never the way of the world. It is a severe breach of tznius to put a Jewish women surrounded by strange, even gentile, men.May 10, 2020 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #1859202shomershabbatParticipant
We live in confusing times. The world of materialism surrounds us and engulfs us in its ever ending pursuit of acquiring more money and gadgets, leaving the spiritual pursuits of our neshama dormant. Eretz Yisroel is a place mostly devoid of materialistic pursuits and a place where 9/10 of the Shechinah in the world is found. Where else can a person tune in to their neshamos other than the walls of the Yeshiva, where girls have no place. The spiritual experience of Eretz Yisroel will leave an imprint on one’s neshama, and the images of the Kosel Hamaaravi, Kever Rachel, Mearas Hamachpela will forever be upfront in one’s mind when davening “Vesechezena Eineinu” and keep one on the right derech in challenging moments in life. Privileged are those who are zoche to return and build their own homes there as well, based on their positive experiences in seminary and Yeshiva. Many girls go on scholarships and Masa and earn 30 credits that year. Please ask your sons/daughters not to take advantage of the Israeli hospitality. Tuition supports the Israeli society and it’s your investment in the future of our land. It’s all a matter of perspective.May 10, 2020 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1859248PhilParticipant
“It is a severe breach of tznius to put a Jewish women surrounded by strange, even gentile, men”
After WWII, many Litvish Gedolim encouraged that women work outside the home to support husbands learning in kollel. Most parents simply can’t support their children who aspire to do so for the long term and teaching in a cheder won’t pay the bills. This is just more trolling on your part.
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