Rejecting One’s Bashert

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  • #1671007

    Joseph
    Participant

    What occurrs when one rejects their bashert?

    Do they marry a zivug sheini?

    #1671044

    Avi K
    Participant

    According to Shidduchim and Zivugim yes. On the other hand, Rav Eliezer Melamed said that a person might have a number of potential zivugim rishonim. According to Kabbala they will eventually marry in gilgulim.

    #1671282

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Avi,

    Why should a נשמה be forced into a גלגול just because they didn’t marry someone

    #1671287

    Joseph
    Participant

    CA: Pru U’rvu is an obligation; when one fails to meet their obligation in this world, what can happen is their being sent back as a גלגול to finish what they didn’t fulfill.

    #1671298

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    The question makes no sense.

    If you rejected them, then they weren’t your beshert. Or if they rejected you.

    You may as well ask what if your beshert never meets you. Or chv dies?

    You can’t believe in the one hand in the concept of beshert, bit on the other hand think that human interference can prevent you from getting married.

    #1671302

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Joe,

    Avi said there are multiple basherts so even if you are מקים the מצוה of פרו ורבו it seems like according to what Avi said you would come back because you didn’t marry all of your bashertim

    #1671323

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    What about free will?

    #1671333

    Popa: If you rejected them, then they weren’t your beshert.

    CHazal say you can make shidduchim even on Tisha B’ Av because if the shidduch is delayed someone else might “chap ” it before you. Chazal say that someone can daven extra hard and get a shidduch meant for you…

    (I don’t know the citations but I was taught this).

    #1671347

    Joseph
    Participant

    popa: How do you reconcile divorce and remarriages with bashert?

    #1671716

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    What’s the kasha? Who says you have to marry your beshert the first time? U can marry them the second or third time

    #1672288

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, the Zohar says that sometimes a person has to marry someone who is not his/her zivug in order to become ready for the real marriage. This was the case with Uriah and Batsheva. If he had not been killed he would have divorced her.

    #1672290

    Libbi
    Participant

    Bashert is not Halacha LeMaise. Proof; 1-) "Do a Shidduch on Tishe BeAv”. Why not wait 12 hours, if Bashert is Halacha LeMaise? 2-) Write a Tnoim on Chol Hamoed even though Kseiva is forbidden. Why not wait until after Yom Tov is Bashert is halacha LeMaiseh?
    Tha Steipler held that if a Bachur does not listen to Shidduchim during the age of 18 to 20, he does not end up marrying his Bashert.
    Since it is against Halacha for an American Bachur to delay Shidduchim after 20, please dont talk about Bashert. Its like robbing people and claiming that Parnosa is Bashert. Thats his Parnosa!

    #1672311

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “Popa: If you rejected them, then they weren’t your beshert.”

    Rebetzin Golden,

    I’ve heard stories where the person turned down their bashert

    #1672393

    Joseph
    Participant

    popa, your second comment contradicts your first comment. In your first comment you said that the OP’s point about rejecting one’s bashert makes no sense, since you cannot reject your basher – otherwise it wasn’t your bashert. But your second comment conceded one’s first marriage could be to someone who wasn’t their bashert.

    #1672407

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Bashert is a mysterious concept. For both a bashert aka zivvug and parnossah, we’re told they’re like Kriyas Yam Suf.
    There are so many pshatim on what that means, but I’ve not heard one that really speaks clearly to my heart… as I heard a rav once say about another topic to which he was seeking an answer, ” A knockout terutz”
    Has anybody?

    #1673195

    Joseph
    Participant

    And why would you think your zivug sheini is your bashert when it very well may have been your zivug rishon that was your bashert.

    #1674736

    benignuman
    Participant

    “CHazal say you can make shidduchim even on Tisha B’ Av because if the shidduch is delayed someone else might “chap ” it before you.”

    Tosafos on Sotah 2a asks this question.

    What do people mean on this thread when they say “bashert”? The Gemara gives two possibilities, a shidduch that was your destiny from before you were born and a shidduch that is according to your maasim in this world. Are both of these considered “bashert”?

    #1674776

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Libbi, have you been using backticks instead of apostrophes?

    #1677892

    avocado
    Participant

    Does anyone have a definitive answer? I’m wondering the same as poppa- I would think that if Hashem wanted something to happen it would. How can a human being “reject” that which Hashem wants to happen?

    #1677920

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    How can a human being “reject” that which Hashem wants to happen?

    Bechirah.

    #1678609

    benignuman
    Participant

    Avocado,

    The Gemara (Sotah 2a) says that Hashem gives each person their bashert “l’fi maasav.” In other words, who your bashert ultimately is depends on your actions (mitzvos, aveiros, etc.). It seems to me that one of those actions is rejecting a match. So if a person rejects their bashert, then everything needs to be reworked and someone else might become their bashert.

    #1678705

    avocado
    Participant

    Yes, but what if someone felt they weren’t ready for marriage so they rejected a potential match? Should they get punished by not ultimately marrying their bashert? They were being responsible by not putting someone else in the situation of being married to someone who doesn’t want to be there or isn’t ready for it.

    #1678759

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yes, but what if someone felt they weren’t ready for marriage so they rejected a potential match?

    That might also be a product of their actions.

    #1679384

    avocado
    Participant

    Yes and no

    Could be a product of a trauma or abuse etc.

    #1681401

    BneiBarakObama
    Participant

    It is true that one may have many soulmates, does this not render the meaning bashert pointless? The meaning of bashert is simply that the one you are married to is bashert. You could be married to a shrew (i made sure not to) but that is your bashert. Your destiny. The divine plan. On the other hand you could have many soulmates, in other word many potentials. Just as everything in life has many potentials, but there is only one divine plan.

    #1681475

    shwarmerei
    Participant

    BneiBarakObama, good point. And good for you for being married to a non-shrew!

    Some questions:
    1) Are you not married to a shrew because you “made sure not to” — or because it’s “your destiny… the divine plan”?
    2) Would you think differently about accepting your marriage as “your destiny” if your wife was a shrew? If you had “made sure not to” marry a shrew, but she turned out to be one anyway? If she was worse than a shrew?
    3) Does “bashertness” of a marriage today preclude divorce later on?

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