Respect: Why many dont have any and how to change?

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  • #592421
    WIY
    Member

    This thread is inspired by aries comment in the thread about what we are missing in this generation.

    It seems like these days many people don’t have respect for others. Children don’t repect parents, one group disrespects the other, the young disrespect the old, the old disrespect the young…its all over the place in all circles and in both genders.

    My question is what caused this situation. My parents always tell me how their generation had somuch respect for parents and elders and people repected each other. It wasn’t that long ago! How has it unravelled so quickly?

    More importantly, how does an adult who realizes that he or she doesn’t have enough respect for others go about building the middah of respect? Does anyone have anything practical to offer on this topic?

    #697683
    WIY
    Member

    Anybody?

    #697684
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    Who said it is worse today than it was in previous generations?

    #697685
    aries2756
    Participant

    Absolutely worse. WE never referred to our parents’ friends by there first names and that set a tone to how we addressed them and spoke to them without a doubt. We never considered a teacher “a friend” and knew to have respect for them even if we didn’t like them. And they knew how to draw the line and not to cross over as well.

    As kids we all rode public transportation and looked forward to it. It was unheard of that a 6,7th or 8th grader got on a school bus. And yet, you would never find an elderly person or pregnant woman standing and a kid sitting on a bus or train.

    At a kiddush or bris, it was unheard of that a child would sit at a table while an adult stood without a seat. And it was not just that the kids knew their manners, their parents knew their manners as well.

    If we ever said anything that was rude or we saw that something we said hurt someone’s feelings it was automatic that we apologized immediately “Oh I’m so sorry, I didn’t meant to hurt your feelings” or “that was stupid, it came out wrong, that’s not what I meant to say”. Now a days, we will add a “so there” to the end of our sentence to emphasize the “shtuch”.

    If we passed someone on the street, or needed to get by, never without an “excuse me” or “anshuldik”. Today we are pushed and shoved like branches in the wind.

    #697686
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    WellInformedYid-

    In my opinion, the world is too large and complex for the simple minds and short attention spans that people have these days.

    In the business world, at least in the company that I work for, there is lots of respect from every employee to every other employee. The reason, quite simply, is that we all know that we’re here, every single one of us, to make money for the company. The more money we make the bigger our paychecks and bonuses are. Politics, disrespect, racism, discrimination, loshon hora… that all takes away from productivity and hurts the bottom line. Respecting others and helping other reach their goal ultimately helps everyone else in the long run.

    Outside the business world- we don’t necessarily see how helping another person or respecting their beliefs will help us in any way.

    #697687
    artchill
    Participant

    Respect is a two-way street, you get back what you put in.

    There is NOBODY who deserves more respect than another person. We were all born B’Tzelem Elokim. Brains and money are granted by Hashem. If you abuse the good that was given by Hashem, He will give your gifts to someone more worthy.

    If parents and community elders don’t respect the voice of the younger crowd, and insist on my way or the highway, THEY WILL BE DISRESPECTED. It’s the metzius of the world. PLUS, CHUTZPAH WAS RAMPANT BACK IN THE DAYS I GREW UP, SO IT’S NOT A NEW PHENOMENON LIKE YOUR PARENTS CLAIM!”

    Asking how to “Build the middah of respect” is in essence asking, “How do we get people to accept the abuse dished out to them and silence them?”

    #697688
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    WE never referred to our parents’ friends by there first names and that set a tone to how we addressed them and spoke to them without a doubt.

    Whats wrong with calling adults by their first names? I called all my mothers friends by their first names (men and women) as they instructed me to.

    I absolutely HATE when people call me Mrs. SJSinNYC. I have a name people, please use it. I’m not a big title person.

    Then again, I naturally disprespect authority until they prove to me they are otherwise competent, but that’s a persona issue. I am still respectful.

    #697689
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    SJSinNYC-

    Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you on this. I don’t think that my neighbors kids should be calling me or my wife by our first names.

    If their parents don’t care then there’s nothing we can do but we instruct our children to call their friends parents either Dr., Mr., Mrs., Rabbi _______ or so and so’s Daddy or Mommy.

    Even if they tell our kids that they don’t care about their own respect we ask that they honor our decision.

    #697690
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    You can respect a person calling them by their name and you can disrespect a person calling them Mr or Mrs. I think we put too much stock into titles and not enough into the person.

    I might adopt Ms. Shira though because some people are super strict about their kids using a title. That’s a good compromise IMO.

    #697691
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    SJSinNYC-

    Thanks for pointing that out. When we were younger we were allowed to call our parents friends by their first name if we put a Mr. or Ms. in front of it.

    #697692

    his “orientation”?!

    no such Torah concept

    a purely fictional invention of modern secular society as a sly pseudo-scientific manner to condone BEHAVIOR that is an abomination before Hashem and calls for the worst kind of death.

    do some have this taivah more than others. absolutely. Hashem created different strengths of taivahs and middos and tachunas in everyone. should people behelped to resist this taivah? absolutely

    but to live such a life is an ABOMINATION, HATED, and DESPISED by Hashem, our Creator, the Creator of the entire universe and everything within.

    #697693
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Wrong thread Mod.

    OK so call it taivah instead of orientation.

    #697694

    big difference what you call it. orientation implies (to most people) acceptability, an equally valid alternative placed alongside normal “orientation”

    sorry about the thread

    #697695
    Feif Un
    Participant

    Respect needs to be earned.

    I have some friends who tell their kids to say “Mr. Feif Un”. I ask them just to call me by my first name. Some do, some say no, they want their kids to learn respect.

    Tzedakah organizations will call me and ask “Is this Rabbi Feif Un?” I reply no, that would be my brother. I’m Mr. Feif Un. You need to know what you are. Giving people false titles doesn’t give respect, it takes it away.

    When I was younger, in elementary school, all male teachers were called “Rabbi”. We clearly recognized that many of them were not Rabbis. That took away from the title of Rabbi, and leads to thinking less of those that do deserve the title.

    #697696
    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    Note today, many adults do not want to be called Mr. so and so, because it makes them feel old and out of it. For better or worse, youth is in these days, and first names are definitely much younger sounding.

    #697697
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    Thank You Mr. Yid for sharing your thoughts.

    #697698
    squeak
    Participant

    I take offense.

    old <> out of it

    #697699
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    Feif Un-

    Reminds me of a story back in the days when I was a teacher.

    One of my students misbehaved in the dormitory and the dorm counselor called his father down for a meeting. The father thought the dorm counselor was overstepping his authority but complied anyway.

    “Can you tell your son that he has to respect me because I have a beard?” the dorm counselor asked the father.

    “No”, answered the father, “I only teach my kids to respect people for what they have due to their accomplishments, not for things they have because they were too lazy to do anything about it”.

    By the way- did we come across each other on another (non-Jewish) website a couple of years back? I went by the screen name “Algorithm Al” (it’s since been retired, I haven’t been there in ages). I remember that there was this guy named “Sholom” claiming to be a Palestinian loving Jew and either you or someone with your writing personality always used some great lines at him.

    #697700
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Well, if

    A. The problem really is new to the current generation, and,

    B. We accept as a premise that people are born good and are then corrupted, and,

    C. Since we are talking about kids, it is unfair to assign the majority of the blame to them,

    Then:

    It seems most logical that the people who are causing the problem are the current group of parents and leaders.

    If so,

    they don’t really deserve respect.

    #697701
    blinky
    Participant

    A lot has to do with the parents. If the parents are respectfully than usually it filters down to the children. When I was working in a yeshiva, and I met some parents I was able to tell right away where their kids got their attitudes from- positive or negative.

    #697702
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    blinky-

    If this makes a difference- the father told me the story himslef, his son was not there.

    #697703
    blinky
    Participant

    I was just commenting in general on an observation that i noticed.

    Some of the parents who were respectful of the yeshiva and spoke respectfully, their kids were the same way. I had a parent come in ranting and raving about the yeshiva, and spoke disrespectfully to the principal….well you can guess how their kids were….. Its not a general rule but i do find it sometimes.

    #697704
    laguy
    Member

    True respect must be earned by young and old alike. The real issue is how we TREAT one another, not so much how we FEEL about them.

    A few years ago my son had a run in with his rebbi, one where the rebbi was clearly wrong no matter how you looked at it. I don;t want to get into the details of it, but in the end I told my son that no matter what happened he must always SHOW respect to the rebbi even if he didn’t really feel it. If everyone would just take a moment and step back a bit and think about how they want to be spoken to, and/or treated, this issue would go away.

    Also, if you are dealing with someone that you will not have to see often, how hard is ti to really bite your tongue??? If it’s someone you deal with all the time, are you really that weak that you CAN’T hold your tongue. If you CHOOSE to engage in a disrespectful manner, then you can fully expect the behavior to come back to you and the cycle never ends.

    Saying please and thank you goes a long way to start the process, even if it’s the person’s job. This really isn’t that hard.

    #697705
    WIY
    Member

    Just something id like to add, there are 2 levels or types of respect there’s respect and there’s honor.

    Respect is Kavod Habriyos. One must respect everyone as a human being. There’s a way to treat people and talk to people.

    Then there is the higher level of honor reserved for those who are deserving be it because of age, position or accomplishments.

    What I’m referring to is specifically the bottom line respect. However honor is gone as well

    With regard to repect, people just don’t have it for each other. Its disgusting how people talk to and about each other.

    Let’s use a Jewish term Derech Eretz is out the widow. People just act in ways that say the other person doesn’t exist or doesn’t count and its appalling.

    #697706
    Feif Un
    Participant

    Yes, Dr. Pepper, that was me 🙂

    #697707
    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    Nice to meet you again.

    (Have you heard from Sholom recently?)

    #697708
    bpt
    Participant

    The root is today’s kids are as savvy, if not more so (at least they think / are let to believe so) than their parents. I’ll pick 2 examples:

    Kids are being asked to shoulder the responsibilites that really belong to the parent. For example, if mom is full time employed, then it falls on 14 y/o sis to wake, dress, feed and send off 8 and 6 year olds to school. Then, when she gets home, she needs to jumpstart supper, possibly a laundry, and then get 8 and 6 ready and into bed. And who can blame mom? After an 8 hour day, she still needs to deal with shidduchim for 18 and 19 year old, plus little 2 year old (who is beyond the capacity of 14 year old).

    15 year old hs boy sees many of his older male role models (father, Rebbie, ect) put in grueling 10 hour days for little monetary reward, yet see their 23-24 year old brothers / brothers in law get showered with gifts and cars and apartments and a NEW WIFE, and did little to earn any of those on his own merits.

    So, why should today’s kids be respectful?

    #697709
    WIY
    Member

    BPTotty

    “Kids are being asked to shoulder the responsibilites that really belong to the parent. For example, if mom is full time employed, then it falls on 14 y/o sis to wake, dress, feed and send off 8 and 6 year olds to school. Then, when she gets home, she needs to jumpstart supper, possibly a laundry, and then get 8 and 6 ready and into bed. And who can blame mom? After an 8 hour day, she still needs to deal with shidduchim for 18 and 19 year old, plus little 2 year old (who is beyond the capacity of 14 year old).”

    I highly doubt this goes on in more than a handful of homes. Most kids in the US are not given a lot of responsibility. If anything most kids are just spoiled and allowed to take it easy. Maybe parents need to realize that if you spoil or baby your kids you end up with disrespectful, entitled, selfish brats.

    #697710
    bpt
    Participant

    While spoiled kids are a factor (the phrase I just read recently is rich spoiled kids suffer from affluenza) in my zip code this is THE NORM.

    When mom announces that she is expecting (again) big sis rolls her eyes, because she know that what it really means is that SHE has a child on the way.

    And what of my 2nd example?

    #697711
    WIY
    Member

    BP Totty

    “15 year old hs boy sees many of his older male role models (father, Rebbie, ect) put in grueling 10 hour days for little monetary reward, yet see their 23-24 year old brothers / brothers in law get showered with gifts and cars and apartments and a NEW WIFE, and did little to earn any of those on his own merits”

    Im guessing you mean this. Well I expressed my strong opinion about that on the thread “The Girls Parents Supporting.”

    Check there soon I hope they post it in its entirety.

    #697712
    oomis
    Participant

    I absolutely HATE when people call me Mrs. SJSinNYC. I have a name people, please use it. I’m not a big title person.”

    I have to agree with you. I was (my name) before I was ever Mrs. (last name). In the Midbar, Jews were not known as Mr. or Mrs. I feel much closer and friendlier to people who call me by my name (with my permission, of course). There are SOME people whom I will not allow to call me by my first name, but that is because I generally sense a chutzpahdigkeit in them and feel the need to keep some distance. Otherwise, I find it disrespectful when someone calls me Mrs. when I specifically requested they call me by name. I am not referring to certain types of frum men who feel uncomfortable calling any woman by name. I respect that they feel it is more proper to say Mrs.

    Look at road rage – that stems from lack of respect also. In fact, I believe, and always have, that ALL the ills of society stem from a lack of respect in some manner.

    #697713
    aries2756
    Participant

    BP & WIF, you are both right, it is half a dozen or one and six of the other.

    As for “earning” respect that is a “secular” attitude. According to the Torah, RESPECT is a given and we are commanded to respect ALL of Hashem’s creations including people. And when we refer to people there is no age limit, young and old.

    However, when one loses another person’s respect, in that case it is that person’s responsibility to earn it back.

    #697714
    toomuch00
    Member

    I have something to add to this. im in high school and not only do my friends not have any respect for most of our teachers, they dont have any respect for other girls in the class!! i mean these girls are my friends obviously but sometimes they dont even have respect for me! they dont respect anyones opinions or anyones choices…. i dont know im trying hard to look from their point of view but i cant get why 1-they dont respect our teachers who are rebbetzins 2-they dont respect their own close friends.

    #697715
    fabie
    Member

    I believe the root of the problem is that people don’t have enough self respect, and in order to obtain their lost self respect they need to lower their friend’s.

    #697716
    mw13
    Participant

    popa_bar_abba

    “Well, if

    A. The problem really is new to the current generation, and,

    B. We accept as a premise that people are born good and are then corrupted, and,

    C. Since we are talking about kids, it is unfair to assign the majority of the blame to them,

    Then:

    It seems most logical that the people who are causing the problem are the current group of parents and leaders.

    If so, they don’t really deserve respect.”

    I disagree. The Torah says we must respect our parents/elders/Rabbonim, whether they deserve it or not. Whether or not they will actually get respect may be a different story, but we’re still supposed to give it to them.

    blinky: Very true. If parents don’t show any respect for authority (Rabbonim, Rabbeim, etc) than how can they expect their kids to? Children must be taught respect (along with just about everything else) by example.

    #697717
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    mw13:

    Fair point.

    #697718
    goody613
    Member

    yeridas hadoros-i dont think it can be avoided

    #697719
    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    In some ways, our generation is much more respectful than the previous generation. Back then, one might refer to the handicapped in many hurtful terms. Today, we use physically challenged and devlopmentally disabled among other examples. Same with various terms to describe other races.

    #697720
    WIY
    Member

    Pashuteh Yid

    Our generation is plagued by liberals and other clowns who are busy trying to be politically correct but they are rotten to the cores of their hearts its all fake.

    Sorry but respect isnt about what you call a handicapped person. Respect is a general way of dealing with everyone and if you pay attention you will see how people just dont have respect fopr each other. We live in a society where its cool to diss (short for disrespect) or rip and embarrass another person. I shouldnt say this but in many yeshivish circles some people are considered cool or fest or whatever if they have good sharp lines to put others down and make them look stupid. This is just one example.

    #697721
    mw13
    Participant

    PBA: Glad you agree.

    PY: Good point. As I mentioned in another thread, too often we get so caught up in all that is wrong with “today’s generation” that we forget to take note of the many things we do right.

    #697722
    WIY
    Member

    Mw13

    Please let me know what we do right visavis our parents and grandparents generations, I’m trying to make sure we live on the same planet?

    #697723
    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    WIY, I respectfully disagree. It is not just labels. Go to a Camp Sternberg and see how much love the healthy campers give to those who are not well. Go to a Camp HASC. Schools have chesed programs to take care of the elderly. Tomchei Shabbos is staffed by young wonderful kids who work many hours after school packing the boxes. Then, there are many young adults who drive and deliver.

    Today there is much more awareness of loshon hara. There is more of an awareness that good things are a matanah from the RBSH rather than kochi v’otzem yadi. There is an awareness that we must take care of the poor and unfortunate, and not think of them as lazy bums who dare not enter my home.

    Where I live, a certain young giyores had no money to make a wedding. A (modern) school took it upon themselves to host the wedding in the school and make all the preparations so the chosson and kalla wouldn’t have to worry about a thing.

    There are bar mitzvah kids who donate all their gifts to needy children in Israel or to victims of terror. Some give up their big seudah altogether to give the money to those less fortunate.

    In my kids’ school, there are children who wheel their handicapped classmates the entire day and make them feel a part of everything that goes on.

    Somehow or other, the lesson of menschlachkeit seems to be getting across.

    #697724
    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    In addition, two generations ago there were quotas and bans on Jews in many colleges and organizations, even here in the USA. They didn’t let black kids go to the same schools as whites. They had separate baseball leagues. Blacks had to sit in the back of buses, and I think they even had to give up their seats if a white person needed one. Today, the world at large understands that that stuff was cruel and wrong and indefensible.

    #697725
    bombmaniac
    Participant

    i just have to ask this…popa what makes you assume that people are born good? doesnt the yetzer tov only become an internal force at bar mitzvah? i was always taught that people were born neutral.

    #697726
    myfriend
    Member

    bombmaniac, people are born good. (The idea that people are born not good, is a christian theology.)

    #697727
    mw13
    Participant

    WellInformedYid

    “Please let me know what we do right visavis our parents and grandparents generations, I’m trying to make sure we live on the same planet?”

    I quote a post by lkwdfellow from the thread “is there some way we can get along?”:

    “The Satmar Rebbe, Rav Aron, shlit”a, spoke at a very large BMG event in Lakewood. And – shortly afterwards – Rav Malkiel, shlit”a, spoke at a large siyum in Satmar (in Monroe, I think). This past Elul, the lakewood Tomchei Shabbos couldn’t get reduced priced chickens for their sale to Klai Kodesh (and even planned to cancel the whole sale bacause of that) & Rav Malkiel travelled to Monroe to speak to the Rebbe – who arranged KJ chickens for them at reduced pricing.

    Rav Pinchos Lifshitz, Yated editor, a talmid of the Litvisher Yeshiva system, was the trailblazing askan in the Rubashkin saga. He went above & beyond to help & created a huge Achdus amongst Klal Yisroel. That’s a great example of bridging the gap!!!”

    Would you say these are not things that we are doing right?

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