Riveting story: Mi Yichyeh, umi Yomis!

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  • #588394

    nameless
    Member

    The following story was told at a ‘Shabbos Hagodol’ drosho (a week after the incident took place) over 30 years ago in Canada. It just seems so relevant for this time of year so I would like to share it. It was told in greater detail, but I’ll shorten it;

    A frum, middle aged man boarded a bus in Jerusalem and seated himself near a window. After a few stops, a young lady in her 20s, dressed in very modern attire, took the aisle seat next to him. She seemed very jittery and after a few minutes, she asked him for the time. He politley answered her and continued reading his journal. A few minutes later, she anxioulsy requested that he tell her what time it was again. This peculiar nagging persisted for quite a while. After asking him about 5 or 6 times , he sternly demanded an explanation. She responded with the following story:

    ‘I was raised in a very strict orthodox home. But my parents died young and I was then adopted by family. Somehow I strayed from my religion, working with irreligious Jews, attending anti frum meetings etc. Anyways, recently I met a lovely young man who is really someone I look up to. He is kind and gentle and very clever. The only problem is, he isnt Jewish. Whatever the case, we are engaged to be married soon. Last nite, my late mother came to me in a dream and begged me to call off the wedding. She tried to convince me how wrong it was to marry out of my faith. But I argued with her and insisted that the wedding goes on. Very distressed, she accepted it, but requested to have one last meeting with me before I make this commitment. As eerie as this sounds, I would like to respect her wishes as she insisted that I meet her at EXACTLY 1:15 AT THE CENTRAL STATION IN JERUSALEM. So I just want to make sure I will be on time’.

    After listening to this chilling story, the man gave her his full co operation. Up until two minutes before 1:15, the young lady pressed him for the time. When the moment arrived, the gentleman was curious to know the outcome of this story. So he watched her as she rushed across the street to her designated meeting place , while a truck drove by and hit her, causing her untimely death.

    Apparantly, she had the meeting with her mother in the Olam Haemes where there will be NO marriage between her and this non Jewish man.

    Struck but what he saw, the man who witnessed this incident, related the story to a famous Rav who REPEATED the story to his Kehilla.

    #623041

    favish
    Member

    to nameless, remember you’ll get plenty ‘anti’ on this story like the other you posted with the girl whose body wasnt shoilet ‘rikvon’…so just ignore, whoever wants to believe let them ,and not let them not, whats the point of aggrevating yourself.

    #623042

    nameless
    Member

    Jent,

    Thanks for the advice. However, I assume that during this delicate time, people will think before they mouth off anything which borders on heresy.

    Gemar Chassima Tova!

    #623044

    favish
    Member

    i’m not sure if someone doesnt belive this story borders on heresey, but its usually ‘THOSE’…who dont believe these stories.for me its no difference if its this particular story is true or not but we know of such phenonimon of appearing in dreams,whith simonin mivhakin that it was actual not a ‘dream’..but THOSE..dont believe in the concept…remember the holy torah dvelves plenty into dreams

    #623045

    yenta101
    Member

    wow!!

    that story gave me the chills!

    thank you so much!

    #623046

    cantoresq
    Member

    I’m more than happy to believe it, as soon as some verifiable evidence of it actually happening is produced. Who was the girl? Who were her parents? Who was the man on the bus? Who was the non-Jewish suitor? Who was the truck driver who hit her? To which was rav was this related over? Provide some verifiable information. This is not at all the same as claims that a corpse did not decompose. Decomposition of a corpse is a natural occurence, just the rising and setting of the sun. Claiming to have seen a corpse that did not decompose, absent some sort of embalming or other manipulation, is dubious from the get go since it flies in the face of G-d’s natural order of the world. A young woman getting hit by a truck however, is not unheard of. It is the context of her death that is interesting and meaningful, not her actual death. That context, from the content of the story should be easily verifiable. So please, provide the information.

    #623047

    favish
    Member

    in the sefer ‘sheal avicha v’yagedcha’ a collection of stories by the world famuous ‘maggid of yerusulayim zt’l'(hagoen hatzaddik sholem shvadron) by ‘yisroel siegel’ with the maggids haskamma..a few such stories see chelek 2 daf 148-151 2 episodes. one involves the ‘chazon ish’ regarding a man who after the chobin noirah (dont like the word holocaust) shed it all even yom kupper and his father came to him NOT IN A DREaM but like ghost in his house few times and threatened him, finally he went to chazon ish…the other was a child who was given during the war to a monostary and when she grew up was going to marry the galchs son, her mother revealed in dream she is jewish…dont have time to print whole story but both had ‘happy endings..’piley peluim,noirah noraim’ like he used to say…(warning :these stories are not for those who are against myth bearing revisionists rabbis)

    #623048

    favish
    Member

    cantor..figured you’d show up, we stated in the other article reyous of such occurrence in the torah, also see bava metziah 84b (?)middle of amud, the tanneh reb elozors wife hid him in the attic for 13 years after he was nifter. once she saw a worm come out of his ears she was annoyed why, so he came to her and explained..AND HIS EXPLANATION PERTAINS TO …LEAVE IT UP TO IMAGINATION

    #623052

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Honestly, I’ll take this story for what its worth – a nice story with a lesson. I am not quite sure it matters if its true or not.

    #623053

    favish
    Member

    sjs in nyc.. point is it could be true,such things occur

    #623054

    cantoresq
    Member

    jent1150

    Member

    cantor..figured you’d show up, we stated in the other article reyous of such occurrence in the torah, also see bava metziah 84b (?)middle of amud, the tanneh reb elozors wife hid him in the attic for 13 years after he was nifter. once she saw a worm come out of his ears she was annoyed why, so he came to her and explained..AND HIS EXPLANATION PERTAINS TO …LEAVE IT UP TO IMAGINATION

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    And a gut gebentsched mazeldik yohr, vos is gefilte mit naches, glick, genzint und parnoseh to you and yours Jent.

    #623055

    favish
    Member

    anyway cantor, who is forcing anyone to believe this story..go ahead and dont believe it

    #623056

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Jent1159, you might be surprised but I believe it because it happened to my father, who was a baal tshuva at age 40.

    In 1964, my family was eating dinner one night when he told us this story. He was on his way home from work and standing in the subway platform when he saw his mother and grandmother on the Manhattan bound platform waving to him to come to them. This startled him since they appeared as flesh and blood but had passed away in the 1930’s.

    His train then arrived . The following morning, getting off the train on the Manhattan-bound platform, as he stepped on the spot where he had seen his mother and grandmother, he had the stroke that killed him. He died on the spot.

    My father was the 3rd generation in his family and was by 1948 they were totally assimilated. As a condition of marrying my mother, he agreed to kashrus and shmiras Shabbos. It took great misiras nefesh in 1948 to tell his boss he would no konger work on Saturday and to face the ridicule of his family. I was the first boy in his family to have any Jewish education in 60 years and he lived long enough to make sure that both myself and my younger sister were enrolled in Yeshiva high school ( my sister ahd just started Esther schoenfeld in boro Park weeks before he died ). He was rewarded with 2 frum children, 5 frum grandchildren and, so far, and 9 frum great grandkids.

    #623057

    favish
    Member

    so cantor back to the question..do you believe that moishe rabbainus heilige kerper did not decompose..see rashi soif ‘zos habracha’..do you believe the gemmorah we mentioned before b’m 84b about reb elozor? also in sepirei chassidim by rav zevin zt’l (ok him you dont have to believe, ‘myth’ bearer)brings few instances so what about natural occurences and ..’flying in the face of riboni sheloiloms natural order of the world?

    #623058

    cantoresq
    Member

    Indeed it could be true. But until someone provides some verifiable information, this “story” has no more value than any other ethical parable in our tradition.

    #623064

    nameless
    Member

    Cantor,

    The only verification I can give you is that the Rav who told the story was Rav Unsdorfer Shmuel Alexander Unsdorfer ZATZAL, former RBD in Petach Tikvah. He told this story when he still lived in Canada years earlier. Apparantly, he heard it form the gentleman on the bus . There cannot be any confirmation unfortunately because the Rav was niftar a few years ago.

    Sorry, I cant be of further help besides standing by the integrity of this former Torah Giant

    and father in law of the current Sanzer Rav in Natanya.

    Gemar Tov!

    #623067

    cantoresq
    Member

    Thank you nameless. It’s a shame we can’t get further ocnfirmation. But personally I’m inclined to believe the story. I’m inclined to believe it not only based upon R. Unsdorfer’s credibility and “migo” (what reason would be have to make it up?), but also becuase in my own personal life, I too have experienced encounters with departed loved ones at auspicious times. The daye before my first son’s bris, my father and grandfather appeared in a dream and instructed me to honor my step father as sandek. At the time it was still a toss up between my shver and step father. Additionally I remember when my father was dying, and he carried on a very audible conversation with his mother, who died in Auschwitz. Yet at the same time, he was very lucid and very aware of his surroundings. Based upon my own experiences, why should I doubt this story?

    #623068

    JENT, CANTOR: You two are missing the whole point. It absolutely does not matter if you believe a story or not, but the lesson is definitely there and you dont need a story to prove that.

    Whether someone believes a story or not, what is of utmost importance is that they should learn from it.This story has a few lessons and while I too may have doubts about the authentity of the story, (some pple just dont believe everything they hear), I learned that Hashem is in control and there’s a Olem Haemes out there. We know this stuff and dont need stories to prove it. Hearing these stories, true or false, should only implement it.

    #623072

    intellegent
    Member

    less chumras,

    How did he tell you the story if he died?

    #623073

    favish
    Member

    intelligent…came to him in dream ,also became ball tsuvah after he died

    #623074

    ses
    Member

    re- read less chumras post. his father became a baal t’shuvah in 1948 and died in 1964.

    he obviously told them at dinner that he had this “vision of his mother and grandmother” and then the very next day happened to die at the same station.

    exact spot? well only the dad knows for sure . same platform, is more likely.

    #623075

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Intelligent,

    He told us the story the night before at dinner.please read again

    ” In 1964, my family was eating dinner one night when he told us this story. He was on his way home from work and standing in the subway “

    “The following morning, getting off the train on the Manhattan-bound platform, as he stepped on the spot where he had seen his mother and grandmother, he had the stroke that killed him. He died on the spot.”

    to jent1150,

    During aseres ymai tshuva how can you make fun of my father, A’H’. and his effort to become a baal tshuvah? I find it very hurtful.

    #623076

    favish
    Member

    lesschumres..zeit moichol..not making c’v fun of your father z’l, zol ehr rien in lechtigen gan eiden, only the way you wrote, thats what it seems.intelligent also understood so. ..also ,please vil nit stechen c’v, the way you write in other posts you usually ,ahem,….so thought you want to make choizek here too .also for me its no difference wether its aseres yemai tsuvah or whole year if its wrong ..

    #623078

    lesschumras
    Participant

    To ses,

    I guess I wasn’t that clear. I didn’t mean he died on the spot that he saw them, I meant he died ” on the spot ” meaning immediately right there on the platform .

    Because he died in a public place, it took the intervention of our Rav and our dr to stop the DOH from conducting an autopsy

    To jent1150,

    I am moichol you. Please have a chasima and chasima tov and an easy fast

    #623079

    Nobody
    Member

    Nameless – I have heard this story before and whether it is true or not is not the point up here for debate. It is whether you have the faith to believe or ridicule. It is a fabulous story that brings me out in chills each time I hear it and reminds me of the power of Hashem and the Heilige Neshomas.

    Lesschumras the point of your story was very clear and your late father believe me is deriving tremendous nachas from his futute generations here.

    I would also like to point out today on erev Yom Kippur that it is not only the power of speech but also the power of the written word that we need to remember and ask teshuva for.

    Please everyone double check what you write, remember the feelings of others and guard your typed word…..

    G’mar Chasima Toiva

    #623081

    cantoresq
    Member

    so cantor back to the question..do you believe that moishe rabbainus heilige kerper did not decompose..see rashi soif ‘zos habracha’..do you believe the gemmorah we mentioned before b’m 84b about reb elozor? also in sepirei chassidim by rav zevin zt’l (ok him you dont have to believe, ‘myth’ bearer)brings few instances so what about natural occurences and ..’flying in the face of riboni sheloiloms natural order of the world?

    _______________________________________________________________________________________

    I’m not sure to shich Rashi in Zot Habracha you refer. As to the Gemara in Baba Metzia, allow me to answer with a question of my own. Do you literally believe what the Gemara says about Pharoah’s anatomy in Moed Kattan? Moreover, I find his the insturrction to Rebbi’s wife to leave his body in an attic interesting as well as explanatory. There have been reproted cases of mumification when bodies are left in arid enviornments for extended periods of time.

    #623082

    favish
    Member

    yeh, yeh cantor figured you’d come up with YOUR interpetations…rashi in zos habracha we gave exact location in other article in volving your ….views.so well not bother again…yes, so you want to say his rebetzin mummyfied him just left out the ear..then ‘my kumashmelon’ of the story..aynway wont bother what we think of your …refer back to ‘chareidy weeklies..’ article may 3 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/17562/Eretz+Yisroel+Gedolim+Reiterate+Warnings+Against+

    #623083

    favish
    Member

    next, cantor do yuu believe the gemmorah tanis reb chanineh ben doiso that he made the vinagar to burn ‘mis sheomar lshe’men sheyadlig yomer lecoihmetz sheyadlic’ or chulin 7a ‘reb pinchas ben yoir the lake split for him 3 times or is it just a ‘ethical parable’ (what ethics is involved here?)

    #623084

    cantoresq
    Member

    Jent let me put things to rest, hopefully. I believe in miracles. But I also believe in Ocham’s razor. Thus if I can explain a story in the Talmud within the preditctable workings of the world (i.e. by making fewer assumptions, as Thomas of Ocham put it), I prefer to do that rather than rely on claiming a miracle or other unnatural explanation for a reported phenomenon

    #623085

    dovid_yehuda
    Participant

    lesschumras, it is sad to lose your father like this, but it is good that so much Yiddishkeit has resulted because of his influence.

    #623086

    morechumras
    Member

    nameless: beautiful story.

    #623087

    cantoresq
    Member

    Jent to be clear. I believe in miracles, which is waht you seem to be asking. But at the same time, I also believe in what is known as “Occham’s razor,” which postulates that when determining the solution to a problem, then one which requires the fewest asumptions is the correct one. Thus if I can explain a reported event within known laws of nature, I will do so before assuming the miraculous.

    #623090

    Doc
    Member

    cantor, if you don’t deny miracles occur, why assume anything appearing “natural” is less than miraculous?

    Instead of relying on the logic of some pruste Franciscan friar, why not realize everyday miracles occur all around you?

    #623091

    cantoresq
    Member

    Doc, my definition, anything that occurs with predictable regulairty is not a miracle. It is nature. Moreover, that “pruste Franciscan friar” was not wrong. I think Occham’s razor has a m’kor in shas. “Ein somchin al haneis” can be legitimately read as an instruction about interpreting phenomena around us.

    #623092

    Doc
    Member

    cantor, But you must admit something that appears to have occurred naturally, may in fact have occurred miraculously, despite its seemingly natural explanation. (Even using your definition of a miracle.)

    #623094

    cantoresq
    Member

    Doc, such an assertion makes sense only to Leibniz, and I’m nor even sure if he would agreed with it.

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