Russia is losing the war in Ukraine
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- This topic has 78 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 8 months, 2 weeks ago by 2scents.
September 18, 2022 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2125844
I would be interested to learn what is the source of your views on this matter? Is this something you know first hand? Heard from family and friends? in your community? TV? online? I would appreciate if you can enlighten us. This would help us to appreciate your views better.September 18, 2022 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #2125875
AAQ, mdd’s views on this matter is from being an excellent student of history, especially Russian history, as well as a very careful follower of current events.September 18, 2022 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #2125900
Opps, I did not realize mdd is your yet another account..September 18, 2022 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #2126068chiefshmerelParticipant
Gotta love Alternative History.September 18, 2022 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #2126093
Actually, Always…, I do not want to reveal too much, but I will tell you that I, for sure, know more about the situation there and the historical background thereof than an average person in the US, Canada or the UK.
I would like to add: FYI — you can not walk in the street in a yarmulke in Russia. In Ukraine it is even worse. Sakonas nefoshes.
If you do not wear anything specifically Jewish, it is okay. Still you have to beware of the regular criminals. Especially, if you are a foreigner who may be presumed to have money, and you are in Ukraine. I am also not sure if being a western guy is popular in Russia these days.September 18, 2022 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #2126092
I hesitate to accept Ujm’s praise.
Chiefsmerel, my knowledge of history is based on solid sources.
Always…, on which matter?September 19, 2022 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #2126466
Mdd > know more about the situation there and the historical background thereof than an average person in the US, Canada or the UK.
that’s pretty modest of you. Average US person may not be able to find Ukraine on the map. So, it sounds like you have some inside info. So, could you describe in more detail what sources/info helped you come to your position. I am not so much interested in view of Petlura, discussing history is always fun, but rather what made you think that all this history justifies Russian invasion. And, again, I understand your position, I am curious what was your path to that.September 20, 2022 12:47 am at 12:47 am #2126472
Always…, I understand that legally Ukraine is a sovereign country. So what business does Russia have getting involved there? However, if you know that originally they were one country for centuries and then again from 1654 till 1991, and that the dukes of Moscow had in the interim always wanted to reunite with the western parts of the original Russia, and that many people in southern and eastern Ukraine want the reunion now, and that they and Russia resent tremendously the anti-Russian brainwashing and falsification of history conducted by Ukrainian nationalists in Ukraine, you start to see the Russia’s view on the situation.September 20, 2022 7:19 am at 7:19 am #2126474
mdd, I do read some history, and I do know Russia’s view. I am specifically curious about how you came to this view. I presume that you are an observant Jew with some Torah sensibilities rather than a member of oprichnina or something.
PS I hope Normans will not find out in time that queen of England is niftar and re-occupy it!September 20, 2022 7:21 am at 7:21 am #2126475
back to history: ok, I understand that area of Moscow was somewhere between old “Rus” of Kyiv and Novgorod – was it part Rus or more Ganza, not sure. How does that support Moscow’s claim to be in charge of Kyiv? It would rather support Kyiv’s claim on Moscow (and many other Russian and Belorus cities). If the claim is simply “one culture”, “one nation”, similar to Nazi’s claim on Austria, Sudeten, ..
then maybe Moscovites should propose a weak and fair union? I understand they do have some organization that is joined by their satellites. I am talking about genuine partnership where Ukraine is an equal partner, like early EU. Would this make more sense that bombing the most Russified areas of Ukraine?!
Also, maybe pass to your Russian friends – they do not understand how voting works. They annexed most of the pro-Russian part of Ukraine 10 years ago. That means. remaining voters are more anti-Russian and will elect an anti-Russian government. I am not even mentioning those who changed their views.September 20, 2022 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #2126827
How I came to have such views will have to remain an enigma.Though, I think, you can decipher it if you try.
The answers to the history questions will have to wait till later tonight — I have run now.September 20, 2022 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #2126832
Ganza never played a big role there, even though Novgorod was a member of the League. Moscow was a small city/town in the later Kievan Rus’ period. To be continued…September 20, 2022 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #2126833
> How I came to have such views will have to remain an enigma. Though, I think, you can decipher it if you try.
An admission by a Russian troll?! As you might know Nazi “enigma” cipher was cracked, and so we eat leeks in the honor of your organization.September 21, 2022 1:07 am at 1:07 am #2126902
Always, wrong guess. Try again.
So, in the 13th century, Rus’ was overrun and demolished by the Mongols. Its’ north-eastern part fell under the overlordship of the Golden Horde, a Mongol state, but they were allowed to retain their government structure with a broad autonomy, and the local leaders were dukes descendant from the old Grand Dukes of Kiev. The western parts of Rus’ were divided between Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. They, however, did not retain autonomous government structures and just became parts of the Grand Duchy or colonies of Poland. Eventually, the north-western parts overthrew the yoke of the Mongols and formed an independent Russian state. After Chmelnitskiy, imach shmo, rebelled against the Poles, his people decided to become an autonomous part of Moscow’s Russia, and Russia agreed to defend them against the Poles.September 21, 2022 1:08 am at 1:08 am #2126903
The Ukr. nationalists did not want to be friends with Russia — they hate Russia. Always…, the vote took place in 2014 only in Crimea.
Yea, a Russian troll who reveals to you that it is dangerous to wear a yarmulke in the street in Russia.September 21, 2022 2:34 am at 2:34 am #2126912
I meant, the north-eastern parts threw off the yoke of the Mongols.September 21, 2022 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #2126992LostsparkParticipant
I’m I wrong to really not care if these two nations of edom tear themselves apart. Like Russia’s chief Rabbi said, leave. Both Russia and Ukraine have terrible past with the Jews that lived there. Babi Yar is a testament to Ukrainian sentiments towards Jews and it doesn’t help that statues of Khmelnytsky Yimach Shmo still standing.September 21, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #2126997jackkParticipant
Putin just announced a “partial mobilization” of troops, drafting as many as 300,000 reservists.
How many more people is he going to send to their deaths for a war that he is losing?September 21, 2022 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #2127046
Jack, the likelihood of Russia not gaining territory after all is said and done, is rather small. Ukraine is highly unlikely to be able to win this war. The only question is what the extent of it will be.September 21, 2022 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #2127118jackkParticipant
Do not move the goal line.
If after all is said an done, they gain a small amount of territory – which I doubt because I believe Ukraine will kick Russia at least back to Crimea – then they lost the war.September 21, 2022 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #2127224
on history: After Chmelnitskiy, imach shmo, rebelled against the Poles, his people decided to become an autonomous part of Moscow’s Russia, and Russia agreed to defend them against the Poles.
I recall that Chm-ky wanted to partner with Russkiies against Poles, but they know only one part of partnership – of a master and an eved knaani, so he got what he earned. Midah k’neged midah indeed.September 21, 2022 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #2127227
jackk > How many more people is he going to send to their deaths for a war that he is losing?
Apparently, many nearby countries are not accepting people fleeing the draft. This is a very Rosh Hashonish question: what is a real teshuva?
These Russians were comfortable going to work while their country is attacking the neighbors, but are planning to flee when they personally are affected. So, is this teshuva mi’ira? Is it accepted or dismissed as self-serving? Some apparently fled when the war started but then came back as draft did not appear likely.
Maybe the safest way for the draftees is to get to the other side and fight for Ukraine – then they have a higher chance to survive. Although, they will be tortured if caught. Maybe, they should promise Ukraine that they’ll work somewhere far from the front and then ask neighbors to let them proceed on a bus directly to Ukraine.September 21, 2022 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #2127225
mdd, so your “russia” theory seems to be like that: there was a RUS 1.
Then, most of it became slaves to Mongols. Some of this RUS 2 were relatives of princes of RUS 1. (not Moscow, but nearby, I guess).
RUS 3 joined other Slavs (Poles, etc). They are out, because!
RUS 4 (Moscovia) became best Mongol’s slaves, so they eventually got some power from their masters. Not related to princes of RUS 1, I think, but lived near RUS 2 and helped Mongols to pacify RUS 2.
RUS 5 took over multiple other nations at great violence, made RUS 4 it’s capital, then moved capital to another place but still RUS 5.
RUS 6 killed the tzar of RUS 5, let RUS 1 free, then conquered it again. “Have You Murdered And Also Inherited?!” as Eliahu would say.
After killing millions of Yidden, RUS 4 and RUS 1 and other peoples, RUS 6 legally dissolved, with RUS 4 and RUS 1 becoming separate nations.
Now, RUS 4 says I am RUS 1 and is firing artillery into RUS 1, ostensibly their own brothers.
I had fun figuring out these mathematical connections, but I still do not know why you think it makes sense.
Note what you are proposing to the world: if every country follows this tortured logic, there will be immediate wars all over the world: India/Pakistan; Japan/Korea/China; Canada/US; Germany/Poland; France/England; Britain/Ireland, etc, etc. I suggest you strt by reading some Kissinger about Westphalian treaty and its meaning, or something except RT.September 22, 2022 12:15 am at 12:15 am #2127244
Right now there’s a real risk of Russia going nuclear. If Russia does use tactical nuclear weapons against Ukraine, then a serious risk develops of a direct war between the United States and Russia. That war could be conventional or could go nuclear, between two nuclear armed states.
I don’t believe the average American has any idea how close to reality these dangerous scenarios potentially are right now.September 23, 2022 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #2127664
ujm, indeed, maybe this can focus us when we daven to Hashem not just for your next year parnosa but for the fate of the gantze velt… Never before in history were people informed better about what is going on, so we have no excuse not to pay attention.September 28, 2022 8:16 am at 8:16 am #2128124interjectionParticipant
The USA is not going to nuke Moscow if Russia nukes Crimea. Ukraine should be willing to do some compromise to end the war but Ukraine would rather the entire world to be blown to smithereens rather than to do give an inch to end the war.September 28, 2022 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #2128213
Interjection: If the US attacks Russia ‘s army even with conventional weapons, as the senile Biden is threatening to do if Russia tactically nukes ukrai6, that means a direct hot war between the US and Russia for the first time in history; something that never occurred even during the Cold War. In fact, it would be the first direct war between two nuclear armed states. And even though the US is much stronger than Russia conventionally, in a nuclear war both sides lose big time. And once Russia uses nukes in Ukraine, there’s no betting it won’t use them against the US if the Biden goes to war against Russia.September 28, 2022 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #2128215Sam KleinParticipant
Yes that’s correct. We could all be heading towards a major WWIII if we don’t wake ourselves up NOW ASAP to serious Teshuva and Achdus together. Don’t tell Hashem that Hashem the ruler of the entire world didn’t send us a warning with enough time for us to wake ourselves up from living in Denial and think we can fool Hashem that we don’t see his direct message and tragic wake up calls sent straight to klal yisroel for us to wake up to serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP.
What happened the minute Yonah Hanavi came to Nineveh and told the King the dvar Hashem? The king immediately shut the entire city down to serious Teshuva so their lives can be saved hopefully with sincere Teshuva…..
We can’t fool Hashem the king of kings. Let’s not be fools and then ask ourselves why there’s so much non stop tzaros in klal yisroel when we all know that it could’ve been avoided from the very beginning if we only woke up and FACED REALITY IMMEDIATELY and accepted Hashems call for serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP together like in the story of Purim…..
Let’s wake up now in the aseres yemei Teshuva and beg Hashem to forgive us and accept our sincere Teshuva and Achdus together as one loving nation
May Hashem deem us worthy to send Mashiach immediately so the kohein gadol does the yom kippur avodah this year in just a few days from now.September 28, 2022 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #21282182scentsParticipant
What compromise do you think Russia would be willing to accept in order to stop the war?
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