Scene at O�Hare Airport in Chicago This Past Sunday Afternoon

May your daughter grow and be worth the investment. Been there done that 😉

Bogen, is sure bursting a lot of bubbles today.

Ahyhoo… This is a very sweet and touching story. As a daughter, I always loved when my father would put his hand on my head and say a blessing. It’s nice to hear happy stories, especially on a day, like today.

It is indeed very scary to send your kid off to Israel and not know what’s going on. here we are sending our boys and girls off to another country and we have never seen her school, he principal, or her teachers. Sure, you can speak every day on the cell phone, but you don’t actually see them, meet the principal, and see the actual school. If it is affordable, a parent should try to visit the child in Israel and see if everything is alright. I know I did and it was money well spend, hey, what’s another two thousand for a ticket to Israel when you are already spending $25,000.

Bogen,

It is responses like yours that make us, other frum people, wish you would find your own daled amos to live in and not come out in public.

BS”D

Where I come from, if I see someone who is obviously shomer Torah u’mitzvos do something pleasant or harmless that I might not do myself, I assume he has Daas Torah behind him. I just don’t have the knowledge or the chutzpah to decide that it is ossur for everyone else even if I would not do the same myself.

BS”D

Doc: What part of “obviously shomer Torah u’mitzvos do something pleasant or harmless that I might not do myself,” did you not understand?

A skirt like that is neither pleasant nor harmless nor would I even assume someone wearing it was shomeres torah umitzvos (because chances are her shaitel is so long and natural looking as to fool me or her hair is also not befitting a bas Yisroel).

That is assuming I would somehow notice such a thing. Usually I don’t pay attention to womens’ skirts………………….

Bogen, pardon my ignorance, but can you please tell me the source for the issur

to hold my wife’s hand in public?

Going back to the origanal post, it is very touching to see parents sending their children off by benching them. When I sent my daughter off to Gateshead, a few of the fathers benched their daughters. what was interesting then was the difference between the first year students and the second year students. The second year students were so much more confident in their traveling and the parents might still have been emotional, but they were more relaxed.

Why does so many of the discutions here end up in arguments about women’s tznius? I haven’t heard arguments about simpler cars, less expensive hats etc.

Unfortunately, too many people, especially those on the internet including so-called kosher sites like yw, have no sensitivity for tznius. Therefore the above comments whitewashing the lack of tznius is sadly unsurprising.

Of course hand-holding is prohibited in public. Of course touching is prohibited in public. The fact that it is so difficukt to penetrate the thick skulls above who do not wish any infringement on their hfkkeirus, shows the difference between most people who do use the internet vs . most people who do not use the internet.

anonymouse1079,

there is an entire thread discussing the questions you raise about mitzvah tanzes. IMHO, there’s no need for everyone to rehash it all over again on this thread.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/mitzvah-tantz-what-the-prob-exactly

squeak, are you an old hand at Usenet?

Since it is so OBVIOUSLY ASSUR, as stated in the Shulchan Aruch, can someone please post a SOURCE – siman and sif – so that someone like me, who is not a baki in every Siman in Shulchan Aruch can learn it for himself?

bogen..if you can bring reyous to your assertion..l’halacha one is allowed to kiss his daughter ..only where there is chashad that people seeing wont know its his daughter then its assur, which is not shayech here. see even ezer simon 21 seuf 7(?). now if your talking middos chasidos in that case you cant say ‘there is no defense….’so,please enlighten

Deat Jent1150,

You are correct of course that a man can kiss his daughter, as he can his wife. But the Even Ezer simon 21 siuf 7, isn’t matir doing it in public, even if everyone knows its his daughter, just as he couldn’t kiss his wife in public even though everyone knows she is his wife. Presumably you agree a man cannot kiss his wife in public even though everyone knows its his wife. The daughter in this case was not a koton (…going to seminary), they are over 12. Hence it is not permissible to do it in the street (or the airport).

(Pashute Jew, you are despicable. Just in the other thread I saw you wrote off Shulchan Orach as inapplicable these days and merely a “good idea”. Suddenly for the first time you are a fan of jent when he says something fitting your bill of goods. I refuse engage with a character as yourself.)

Bogen, can you please cite your source in 21,7? Sorry, but Sh”O mentions yeshainim bkiruv basar as a problem for a gedolah, but not one word about the issue at hand.

I never said the Sh”O is not applicable. The Sh”O only said it was recommended that women not go outside, but there is no halacha, only a recommendation, just as he recommeds one use bathroom in morning before going away. If there was an issur, 99% of all chareidi women would be in violation of a halacha, which is not possible, as pok chazi mai ama dvar.

please bogen , dont put me to together with this apikores pasuhte yid. his whole torah consists of ahavs yisroel, and not our kind of yisroel, only those who are oiver on what ‘yisroel’ are supposed to be. his

9 and others) constantly mocking ehrliche yidden and being medame to ‘talbanization, women wearing burkas etc and b’klall his haskofos all overare anti torah ..also his friends illini, cantor etc all from the other ‘sitra’ mentiond in YU article. please pahute yid, dont come again with hillel hazakon ‘viduch zil gmor’ we pointed out in other place to your am hartzishen psat…also see arvai psochim , ahvas yisroel is not blank check…

So far, no source in halacha for the issue of touching ones daughter in public. Anyone?

Jent,

1) Can you please cite one thing that renders me an apikorus?

2) Can you please show me where I did not display ahavas yisroel unless I was defending somebody who was attacked by a kannai?

3) Regarding the Talibanization issue, here is a chakira for you. Do you hold that A) the methods of the Taliban of physically forcing their religious views on other people via beatings and the like, are completely correct, and that wearing burkas is a praiseworthy halacha or kiyum in tznius, except that by an accident of birth they were simply born into the wrong religion. Had they been born Jewish, and done exactly the same things they do now, they would be tzaddikim gemurim; or do you hold B) that their methods are completely unacceptable, because yiddishkeit is a religion of darchei noam and their use of force to promote their views of tznius means that they are reshaim? Which is it Jent A) or B)? Please explain in detail.

Source?

gavra,

Thank You. Well said.

Gavra, you ask well. There is a complete difference in the time when the RBSH’s hashgacha was geluyah lakol and we were all completely confident that he was running the show for our benefit. Then, as the Chazon Ish explains in hilchos shechita, any aveiros were open rebellion against what was known by all to be true and good.

In our days, writes the Chazon Ish, any use of harsh words will only be interpreted as violence. (Al achas kamah vkamah, violence itself is forbidden.) It will only drive people away. They do things wrong because they either don’t know better, or may not believe in the entire system. Unless you are prepared to first make an open mofes which thoroughly convinces them of the emes, then you must understand that we are living in a time of hester panim, and can only be mekarev through ahavas yisroel, and have no right to impose anything by force. Why in the world should some yid listen to a stranger who says this is the right way to do things? Who can have the arrogance to force his way on a stranger?

Our only selling point is that we show him how there is such an overwhelming warmth in shmiras torah and mitzvos, that he will on his own want to learn more about this wonderful way of life and eventually may decide to become frum.

It is a totally different tekufah now. All this gayvah from kannaim is completely inappropriate and only turns people away. I myself, having been frum all my life, and even consdered myself chareidi have been getting nauseated and almost turned off completely by all the harsh words I have been reading on this site the past year. Imagine how a newcomer must feel.

Note further that even in the time of chazal, they said that even once in 70 years was too much for any beis din to give a din misa.

True there are psukim that say the RBSH gets angry. But there are also those that say he is erech apayim. He do we resolve? We simply look at the gemara brachos that says Kel zoem bchol yom. (Hashem gets angry every day.) But what is the extent? The gemara says one rega (instant) kimeimreih (the time it takes to say the word rega). Each day he is calm except for one short instant. (Maybe this is the source of everybody in Israel yelling rega at each other all the time.)

Kanaus has no place whatoever until moshiach comes. Truthfully, do you really believe all the kannaim are lshem shomayim, rather than on an ego trip? Do you really believe kannaim are more medakdek bmitzvos than the warmer yidden? Does making a lot of noise have some correlation with one’s shmiras hamitzvos? Did the acid throwers win over any new baalei tshuvah, or just drive away people from wanting any chareidim in their neighborhoods?

We could have made the entire IDF frum by now if we would just give them a few words of warmth and appreciation for their efforts, instead of knocking the medinah and the flag they fight for constantly.

icot, nisht azoi shreklach. grada, gantz fein.

without everyone getting mad at me…does everything have to be an argument? i thought it was a very touching post and when i read it, it brought tears to my eyes! thank you!

ICOT, You gotta fill me in on that one… spaseba sounds Spanish. Good guess?

But your Yiddish above does leaves me the impression you know it flawlessly!