School Uniforms or No?

oh i love uniform its great.

some feel it is a suppression of individual expression

I love the uniforms but they’re too expensive.

As a parent, having a uniform makes my like easier. No questions about what to wear. No worries about competition. Although “some feel it is a suppression of individual expression”, I feel that they are worth it.

A dress code still allows for clothes to be an issue – worring about choice and competition. But a dress code can still enforce some level of tsniut for girls and boys.

There’s enough individuality when dressing even when wearing uniform.

Girls choose their own shoes, sweater(in most schools), and hairstyle.

I loved uniform when I was a student and I’m sure the mothers love it double!

whats one of the most imp things stressed in a Frum girls school? TZNIUS! so we learn tznius,tznius,tznius our whole education.. so inspirational! and yet, as challenging as it is for every girl growing up in so many ways, the CLOTHES part of it almost isnt hands on-aside from sunday and shabbos.. and makeup! hair! in school?? gasp!! do the teachers really think girls today r going to stay in ponies and oxford shirts for the rest of ther lives? when should girls start getting a feel for how a jewish girl shld look every day? in REALITY? so we graduate, get out of the uniforms and start really shopping for our everyday wardrobes, how we would really dress if we didnt hav to conform to uniforms, and then it hits: the very constant pressure to look good.. put together..attractive…drop dead gorgeous..for shidduchim…dating… husband.. (and the lines start getting blurry)..scary!- this happens after we graduate and when theres no more constant inspiration and guidance and peer pressure to keep u in check..

I agree with s2021. A uniform is sort of a cop out in terms of really teaching tznius.

Also, you would have less girls who wore a uniform in school and then inappropriate clothing outside of school because they aren’t going to buy a double wardrobe.

And to whoever said there is individuality in shoes and hairstyles…um, my elementary school implemented rules against “stylish” haircuts. The more right wing schools limited hair length and style to a few very specific ones). Lets be real, uniforms and school rules are to supress individuality.

(From someone who didn’t mind her uniform)

I think uniforms are terrible chinuch. They create an artificial boundary between school and home and they don’t teach girls anything about how to dress.

(From someone who never wore a uniform and sends her daughters to a school without one.)

and now the students point of view: uniforms are good to an extent!!!!!!! yes telling the girls they have to wear exactly xy and z- does make girls resentful, not teach them how to dress, adn doesnt allow any indviduality!!!! we are NOT robots and u cant expect us to be!!!! *BUT* coming from a school where we have a choice of 4 diff. colored shirts, 2 diff colored skirts,school cardigan or vest- 2 diff. colors (with skewl emblem), valour or regular skewl sweatjacket, or senior sweatshirt from any year- they have no rule on how to wear our hair, or wat to wear in it- sure teachers might make comments but they cant make u take it off (maybe a hat they can) the only accesories they mention is too long earings- which they dont really enforce and nail polish and make up- which they are very strict on and i cant blame them– shoes wise they dont care it just cant be slipper, mule, or open toe (some skewls outlawed boots!!!) and sock wise- cant wear anklets socks and skirt must meet- knees must be covered at all times- they dont care wat color socks!!!!

now that is wat i call a good uniform- i have a freind in a kewl they dont let u wear denim out of skewl- not even a biz- wats it their bussiness the girls go crazy they cant do anything- and unfortunatley i no girls there that were very turned off by tznuis cuz the skewl even has tznuis police!!!!! then i have other friends who go to a skewl where all they have is a simple dress code and while its not meant to be a fashion show and the older girls stop caring- the younger girls start out making it a whole big deal! i think if there is a comprimise of both then it would be good! if the girls have some sort of outlet to express themselves like accessories or even shoes then it wouldnt be such a big deal!!!1 u can still look uniform but u shuld still look like u! its time to let people be themselves not be clones- and to tie everything toghther i no this is a bout uniforms but culd making everyone clones be the shidduch problem if every girl said wat they want and wat they are really like and not wat they were told to be like and want then maybe just maybe there would be a lot less availble girls cuz wat they are looking for would be more realistic

popa? whats with the third party? look like the CR is getting to you. “Shenl!” go grab a decaf coffee. Ad a shot of bourbon to cool the nerves.

Popa always talks in third person. That is because the Popa personality has morphed into its own existence next to the regular person of the guy who writes Popa.

I do drink decaf, and bourbon is good. But I am really more of a scotch guy.

I definitely agree w/ uniforms.. both my daughters had, but certainly not as wide a choice as bygirl93.

wanderchana– there’s nothing so wrong w/ her spelling & grammar… that’s textspeak (along w/ a few sp. errors).

Wanderingchana- r u kidding me? i love english!!!! that the one subject i’m awesome in! i just dont look at the keyboard when i type so thats when all the mistakes come in- i dont usually post unless i feel a real connection to wat is being discussed so i dont proofread it before i hit send-

alwaysthere- thank you- but may i ask is it because u dont think the girls having some leeway in uniform- that u dont think a wide choice is gud?

bygirl93– I think ur choices r awesome! my girls had one skirt option,a jumper, 2 colored blouses, one white blouse for Rosh Chodesh & special events/assemblies, a vest, & a sweater. ur options r gr8! 😉

Soldiers are required to wear a uniform because it destroys their individuality and melds them into a cohesive whole.

I am not in favor of doing that to my kids.

I am totally in favor of uniforms. Girls at our school can wear colorful tights and headbands, and colored/striped shirts for Rosh Chodesh.

On the complaint that uniforms suppress individuality:

At the end of the day, people will always find a way to express themselves. There’s shoes, sweaters, hair, jewelry, etc. Those who feel a need to express themselves have plenty of opportunities to do so.

cleverjewishpun:

“Most people here would tell you that the girls shouldnt have any sort of “visual” individual expression.”

Nice of you to let us know what we think. I just love it when I get my opinion delivered to me on a silver platter (with a nice dose of disapproval, no less).

In all seriousness, these generalizations get nowhere. Please do not claim to know what “most people here” think.

s2021:

“do the teachers really think girls today r going to stay in ponies and oxford shirts for the rest of ther lives? when should girls start getting a feel for how a jewish girl shld look every day?”

Fair point. However, no good thing is without its negative side effects. I still believe the positives of uniforms outweigh the negatives.

PBA:

“The way you dress is very important to how you feel… when I put something nice on, I feel good about myself. When I dress formally, I feel formal.”

That is precisely why there are uniforms! “Ha’chitzonias mores es ha’pneimeis”, what you look like effects how you act and what you do. Therefore, if a girl looks like a BY girl, she will be more likely to act like one.

nfgo3- why is everyone going on about my English???? i know how to spell!!! i know how to use grammar!!!! there is definitely no reason to blame my school! if you knew what school it was, you would definitely agree that my school is not lacking in academics! please believe me when i say that when it comes to what one wears the girls in my school don’t let it come in the way of academics! also, please don’t assume things about someone- it is quite rude! i on the one hand have an A+ in english since 1st grade!

I like uniforms.. a smart school will not confuse uniforms with tznius.. Uniforms have many pluses besides for tznius.

My bigger issue is the schools preach tznius but only with regard to clothing. They totally miss the boat that – tznius is regarding our behavior, actions, & whole approach in life. Its the desire to NOT want recognition. yet the whole BY sysyem (in most places) seems to stress.. how each girl has to STAND out more than the next.. be in in play, GO, yearbook, trips, acadameia & all the other areas.

If tznius was approached as wholesome subject – not justa clothing issue.. the message might get through and be more long lasting..

I never appreciated wearing uniform until I reached seminary and I have to get dressed up every day. Now, I realize just how mechayadik uniform really is. No headache, No pressure, No wasting time choosing an outfit!!!!

As a post-HS girl now in the “real world”, I can now honestly say, uniforms are a good idea.

why is it that ppl only appreciate rules when the rules no longer apply

Cud it POSSIBLY be that its because u dont have to follow the rule and thats why it seems like no big deal??!??!!

i cud be wrong u never know but its definately a possibility. NO??

nah forget it that cant be why

chayav inish livisumay: never never said i didn’t appreciate uniforms. i said now i can HONESTLY say. big difference. now that i have seen both sides of the coin, its pretty obvious which side was easier and more convenient. i have friends who went to school where there was just a dress code, and we used to discuss who had it easier. the general consensus was, dress codes have more “fun”, but they have to go shopping, and think and actually make a mental decision of what they are going to wear. uniforms we decided are a no brainer in the morning. with a limited choice of wardrobe for school (excluding shoes and jewelry and accessories)it was easy to wake up, get dressed and run out the door. less time consuming. but we also decided that we wished the uniforms weren’t as shapeless and baggy as they were. side has its pros and cons, and each school and its hanhala decided what was best for its school. you can’t change the rules, so why complain?

boro park girl and dunno-

did u ever consider that the reason it is so difficult and pressured for you to decide what to wear is because you had a uniform and arent used to choosing your own outfit?

i never had a uniform just a dress code and i dont feel any pressure in choosing what to wear. for me its not a big deal to pick out an outfit because ive been doing it my whole life.

and for all those of you who think having a dress code increases competition and jealousy in a school that is not true at all. in my school we have a dress code and there is way less competition than in schools that have uniforms where girls feel a need to express themselves in their shoes and accesories and when it comes to rosh chodesh its a huge deal. it takes me literally 2 seconds to decide what to wear in the morning i have 3 school skirts and about 8 button down tops and all the tops match all the skirts so i really just have my own personal uniform. so you cant really argue that it makes it harder to get dressed in the morning, its really quite easy and plus i dont have to have a whole seperate wardrobe for sundays because i have tons of sweaters that i wear to school so it actually saves money b/c i dont need 2 wardrobes- 1 uniform set and 1 out of school set

bygirl93: I echo what nfgo3 said about your first post. However, I am still 100% in favor of uniforms.