Science Discovers Tznius

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  • This topic contains 100 replies, has 26 voices, and was last updated by  Joseph 11 years ago.
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  • #588473

    feivel
    Participant

    i posted the Reuters full article recently, but it didn’t get posted,

    probably something objectionable about the article

    so ill try again

    this is a summary of the original news feed posted elsewhere on the web:

    “A woman wearing red really is more attractive to men, according to psychologist at the University of Rochester.

    Researchers conducted five experiments to see how color affected people, even in ways they don’t realize.

    “It’s fascinating to find that something as ubiquitous as color can be having an effect on our behavior without our awareness,” said psychologist Andrew Elliot.”

    #623512

    Belev Echad
    Participant

    cool!

    #623513

    GILA
    Member

    i dont think if you wear the color red it will have an effect on your behavior i think that if your gonna wear a bright red shirt and its very tight fitting that can affect the behavior bec. you are losing touch which wat is correct and therefore it has an affect on you

    #623514

    feivel
    Participant

    gila

    the article said nothing about the behavior of women wearing red

    it spoke to the attitude (and possible behavior to follow) of men observing women wearing red

    nevertheless it is well known, in the secular world of sighcology, and among the Chochomim, l’havdil, that what you wear has a PROFOUND effect on your attitudes and behavior. the color of clothing certainly is included.

    #623515

    feivel:

    It’s about time they realized.

    #623516

    GILA
    Member

    its also how its worn red doesnt always have to be flashy you if its a nice red sweater worn modestly wats wrongwith that

    #623517

    lgbg
    Member

    For everyones information:

    Every color in a way effects one attitude, for instance the color ‘YELLOW’is a cheerful, happy color, and when one wears it they have a more better attitude.

    BLACK, for instance is a more reserved color(even though it really isn’t a color officaly, but anyway) and the reason yeshivish men wear black suits is because it sets an attitude in a sense. Its more serious. Go to a wedding and you can check that by the men its black and white and by the ladies most are wearing black to. why? because it makes a certain feeling (besides women think it makes them look thinner….)

    And so on and so forth… it’s with all colors, they all set an attitude.

    #623518

    sammygol
    Member

    Yes, Sarah 🙂

    #623519

    sammygol:

    That’s not my username! Or is it yours?

    #623520

    sammygol
    Member

    How did you know it was addressed to you if that isn’t your name? You must have read to site owner’s post. Well done, umm.

    #623521

    sammygol:

    Yes, I DID read the site owner’s post – that’s how I knew. And I’m not “umm” either. Stop taunting me, “shema.”

    #623522

    sammygol
    Member

    You are cute, I have no axe to grind with you or Sarah, but if a person, not any of the Shiva Roei Bokor mentioned, needs to post under different names to agree with oneself, that is quite pathetic. Obviously that wasn’t meant for you, if you aren’t Soloreh.

    #623523

    oomis
    Participant

    If a woman is wearing shocking pink or lime green, I am pretty sure people will notice that, too.

    #623524

    sammygol:

    I have ONE screen name – “Give Me a Break.”

    #623525

    Sarah
    Member

    Sammygol,

    I had to reply here. I have never enjoyed a case of mistaken identity as much as this. At first glance, I have not the faintest idea why you would mention my name here, particularly since GMAB’s style of writing is so far from my own.

    It’s fun being mistaken for a PETA supporter and Obama cheerleader, among other positions (sorry, GMAB, but I do enjoy chicken; I am, however, careful not to step on ants).

    Here’s my take: You don’t GMAB’s posts. You were once irked by a post of mine. You have such Ahavas Yisrael that you find it difficult to imagine that you can be irked by more than one individual. Hence, all such posts must be authored by one person.

    For those technologically savvy enough to know how to post under a screen name other than the one that appears when one logs in, I guess they consider it a productive use of time. As you seem so sure that one can do this, I am starting to suspect that perhaps you belong to this knowledgeable club. Hmm, let’s see now…Are you Feivel? Joseph? RabbiofBerlin? Zevi8? Thanks for the laugh, and remember: It’s OK to disagree with others. Please don’t let disagreements shake your sense of self-worth, to the extent that you recall a dissenter from months past. You’re better than that.

    #623526

    sammygol
    Member

    Sarah, whoever you may be. I am NOT the one who identified you with Giving Broken Bones and all the rest of those names. Do navigate this site to find the truth.

    #623527

    Jewess
    Member

    Color definitely affects your mood. Color talks to you. That said, I do wear red be it stilettos or dresses or lipstick. It talks to me and makes me feel good. If a guy finds that attractive that’s his problem.

    #623528

    Sarah
    Member

    Sammygol,

    You said “Yes, Sarah :)” in a dialogue in which I had not participated. Parenthetically, it was I who commented on the possibility of YOUR “association” with the names mentioned, and not the other way around.

    Perhaps you imbibed too much yesterday; thus your mild amnesia. That would also explain your strange interjection as well.

    #623529

    Sarah
    Member

    Sammygol,

    I wasn’t Dan L’kaf Zechus, and for that I apologize. I see that you didn’t dream up the Sarah=GMAB in a hallucinative state- it’s on the “Why are you blocking my posts” thread from GMAB.

    YWN, I think you meant SarahB, and not Sarah. I thought it interesting that “SarahB” posited opinions diametrically different than my own, but didn’t suspect “foul play”.

    Sammygol- I owe you a Brachah: May you and your family have good health, Nachas, and Parnassah.

    Although my computer knowledge is one step above “slide-out cup holder” status, I’m still curious as to how one can use multiple screen names.

    GMAB- I guess the multiple personalities you employ in order to convince your debating partners is a compliment to YWN members, who are so formidable that you require “back up” assistance.

    #623530

    GILA
    Member

    jewess your wrong im sorry to say that if i guy will find you attractive cuz you r dressed provocotive that is your problem not his guys have a huge huge yetzer harah and by you looking like that your making it really hard for them however if your dressed appropriately and yet a guy will find you attractive thathas nothing to do with you you just havet to make sure your dressed in a tznius fasion

    #623531

    tzippi
    Member

    Gila, there’s nothing wrong with being found attractive – we don’t wear burlap sacks (and if anyone does, I’m sure they are long and with sleeves.) The problem is, attractING.

    #623532

    mdlevine
    Member

    from the other thread the YWEditor noted that

    “…all ip addresses are the same.

    We will not tolerate this here.”

    so there is only a few possibilities

    1) They are all one and the same person who is trying deparately to keep up the charade,

    2) 6 people all have access to the same computer and although they use it roughly at the same time, they do not seem to notice each other, or

    3) we are dealing with a person who has multiple persons disorder and truly believes that each of their 6 identities are not related in anyway to each other.

    something tells me that must of us will tend to agree with option 1. GMAB, SARAH and the “other” 4 will insist that it must be option 2.

    #623533

    Sarah
    Member

    OK, mdlevine, I won’t try to convince you otherwise.

    If you’d like to go back to my posts, and see how my comments are on the opposite end of the spectrum from GMAB, SarahB (“who” is a vegetarian, Obama supporter, etc etc), and those that are mentioned, you may.

    YWN, can you PLEASE check the IP addresses, and make the change from Sarah to SarahB on the “Why are you blocking my posts”. To me, this is more than a minor matter: if I take the time to participate here, it’s disheartening that my credibility can be so easily ruined .

    #623534

    smartcookie
    Member

    jewess- why dont u walk out naked when its 90 degrees out there. its not ur problem, it’s all those guys problems not to look.

    #623535

    GILA
    Member

    tzippi i meant that

    #623536

    GILA
    Member

    smartcookie exactly my point

    #623537

    Sarah:

    “GMAB- I guess the multiple personalities you employ in order to convince your debating partners is a compliment to YWN members, who are so formidable that you require “back up” assistance. “

    Stop insulting me. I already stated that I have ONE username – Give Me a Break. If “Sarah” can be incorrectly attributed to me, don’t you think that maybe “Give Me a Break” was incorrectly attributed to others?

    What happened to “Hevei dan lechol adam lekaf zechus?”

    #623538

    The Big One
    Participant

    Y.W.Editor should clarify this IP address situation before things get out of hand here.

    Sarah, a long-time poster (and on the right to boot), clearly is not gmab. That is obvious.

    gmab: How did you get your access restored here?

    P.S. I see sammyjoe is back posting too, so there must be some kind of mistake.

    #623539

    Anonymous

    WARNING:

    The individual who is using multiple names (all from the same ip address), and is carrying on converations with himself, arguing with himself, will be booted from YWN very soon.

    This is your final warning.

    #623540

    Sarah
    Member

    YW Moderator,

    Can you PLEASE double check the IP address and clarify that I am not GMAB; this isn’t fair, and is casting aspersion on me for no reason. Please, check SarahB and Sarah, and see which one is using GMAB’s IP. This is really upsetting.

    #623541

    YW Moderator:

    I see you really don’t believe me. Why? I am not Sarah! As I wrote, what happened to a chezkas kashrus? I’d be willing to swear that I have one screen name, but you don’t know me and so can’t bring me to BD. Why don’t you check the e-mail address that the screen names were registered under? You are really hurting me, YW Moderator, and know that I do not forgive you as of yet. And for all you [and I] know, maybe someone else is using the computer – whoever told you it was a private computer? I have NO other usernames, and did you forget that with billions of computers, we’re bound to have to reuse Internet Protocol addresses?

    I beg of you to be dan me lekaf zechus and believe me when I tell you that I am one and one only – “Give Me a Break.”

    #623542

    beacon
    Participant

    I dont know about GMAB ‘s case, but in regards to multiple user names from the same IP address- different people can be using the same computer (= same IP) and they each have their own screen name on here.

    (In fact, in my case my sister uses my computer and has her own screen name).

    #623543

    Sarah
    Member

    All I can say is this: I must deserve this for some reason. I am NOT GMAB, and have no idea why you (Moderator) insist on humiliating me in this manner. The IP addresses is not a difficult thing to check- simply check them now (and check SarahB’s IP address too), and you will see that you are mistaken.

    In any case, since my credibility has been completely destroyed here by an unwillingness to look again and compare IP addresses, I am forced to desist from posting here, as I will surely never be believed. I have been accused wrongly, and I hope it’s a Kapporah for me.

    I’m sure I won’t be missed, but to those with whom I’ve dialogued respectfully, thank you, and I wish everyone well.

    #623544

    i think sammygol, give me a break and sarah are all the same person

    #623545

    YW Moderator:

    Either someone else must be using the same computer that I use [as “beacon” suggests] or you are trying to torture me [as “Sarah” says referring to herself]. Now, I am going to be dan you lekaf zechus and assume that another member of my family is also posting on YWN rather than blaming you. It’s only fair that YOU should do the same and assume the same as I am.

    dont have internet: Even Y.W. Editor isn’t saying that I’m “sammygol” – he said “sammyJOE” [which, of course, I’m not, nor am I “Sarah”].

    #623546

    Sarah
    Member

    “Why don’t you check the e-mail address that the screen names were registered under?”

    GMAB, an individual can have multiple email addresses, but one IP per computer, as far as I know. Checking email addresses does not help. And I am the ONLY user on my computer, so if my IP address is appearing under another screen name, there are either ghosts hovering over my keyboard or YW IS MAKING A MISTAKE.

    For the record…drumroll…this is the very first time GMAB and I agree: I too feel hurt and upset.

    #623547

    It’s unfortunate that this had to happen. Sarah, if it’s any consolation, I was puzzled when I read the “why are you blocking my posts” thread, thinking that the poster “Sarah” never seemed very similar to the poster “Give Me a Break”. I just shrugged and figured that the user must have been crafty- but now I see that YWN mixing you up with “SarahB” makes a lot more sense. I don’t know the extent of the deception that’s going on here, if there is any, but I hope it gets straightened out soon.

    Re tzniut, which is the *actual* topic of this thread: I have a funny story about women and the color red. When my mother was in seminary in 1978, she once wore a red dress, and another girl at the seminary said, “You shouldn’t wear red. It attracts men.” So my mother thought to herself, “What a great idea!” and when she got back to the States she went out and bought an entire wardrobe of red! The following year, she met my father, and in honor of that seminary girl, they had red bentchers at the wedding.

    Red is an eye-catching color, but there’s nothing wrong with men noticing women. Women do not need to always dress in drab colors and hope to blend in with their surroundings. Now, if the red garments are tight-fitting or skimpy, that’s another story, but the color itself should not be an issue.

    It’s true that color affects mood to some extent, but I think the frum community has taken it too far. Black may be a more “serious” color, but if worn head-to-toe and all the time, it ceases to be serious and starts to become depressing. My brother wore an olive green suit to the last wedding we went to; it was so easy to pick him out of the crowd when we wanted to leave! I also stood out in pink. Mind you, this was a modest outfit, and not even a hot pink or magenta, just a cool pastel pink, but nearly all the other women were wearing black, brown, or navy. I don’t understand how they do it. I need to have color in my life.

    #623548

    mariner
    Member

    gmab and sarah: an ip address “can” change, but it happens pretty less often then you may think. unless you have dialup, its rare. now for you both to have the same ip address constantly after multiple postings, it is figuratively impossible, unless you are using the same computer, or atleast the same connection through a local router, as in a house, or public library.

    to explain: gmab, you get a ip address designated to you on tuesday from your isp (ineternet service provider : verizon, cablevision, time warner, cox, etc). you turn off your computer for a week. now sarah had her computer off for a week, and in the next one to turn on hers. she gets said previously assigned address that expired after a week that was yours. now for you to get yours back, and to keep on going back on forth, which i will take is what the moderator is seeing, is near impossible. it is more likely that you are one and the same and/or in the same family and/or use the same network, either at work, or say in a library. trust the moderator is not a fool for seeing the same ip address and thinking you are one and the same. ip address designation is a pretty strong way of telling who is at a computer and when. admissible in court, no, but it is good forensic proof when given with other forms. police use it all the time.

    #623549

    Sarah:

    I forgot about that – but don’t incriminate yourself.

    “And I am the ONLY user on my computer, so if my IP address is appearing under another screen name, there are either ghosts hovering over my keyboard or YW IS MAKING A MISTAKE.”

    I thought so too. But I don’t know, because I’m NOT the only one on my computer. I have a relatively large family, though I don’t know if anyone else posts here.

    P.S. I completely agree with you – but please stop referring to “SarahB” (whoever that is) because you’re incriminating ME.

    #623550

    Joseph
    Participant

    Gut voch. Sarah, obviously theres a mistake, and I feel for you. Your credibility is intact with those that matter and this place will be poorer without your participation, should you choose that route.

    #623551

    sammyjoe
    Member

    “arah”and give me a break which internet provider are u using? i am using yeshivanet. maybe that is the answer

    #623552

    mariner:

    Then someone else is using my computer.

    Why is everyone sympathiziing with “Sarah” while wagging their fingers at me?

    #623553

    BYgirl
    Member

    jewishfeminist02:

    you are way out of line,

    First of all, I will begin with quoting you. “Red is an eye-catching color, but there’s nothing wrong with men noticing women”. There is nothing wrong with men “noticing” women but there is something wrong with women wearing a color that is found to be enticing to men. Yes, red is known to be an enticing color. Yes, or course you should be pretty and attractive but do you think that a Bas Yisroel should dress in a way that is attracting men? And, by the way, I wouldn’t be proud of the story about your mother. I am not really understanding your point there..do you think that what she did was cute? I don’t think so..

    #623554

    Sarah
    Member

    Mariner, I completely agree. As far as I know, there is ONE IP address per computer. I do NOT use dialup, and I am the ONLY user on my computer. If you reread my posts above, you will see that I stated exactly what you assert in yours.

    Jewishfeminist02 and Joseph, thank you; it does decrease my frustration a little bit. I won’t post a comment on the thread’s topic because I would feel ridiculous doing so: Is the comment coming from Sarah? GMAB? Someone else?

    #623555

    sammyjoe:

    Yes – I DO use YeshivaNet! You think that might be it?

    #623556

    Sarah
    Member

    Sammyjoe,

    The thought occurred to me as well, but I dismissed it as too farfetched. Yes, I do use Yeshivanet! I dismissed the thought for two reasons:

    1. I have my own modem connection to Yeshivanet- does it make sense that all Yeshivanet customers use the same connection?!

    2. GMAB’s positions are usually more left-leaning and liberal. It is difficult to imagine that a more liberal individual would deem it important to put this type of safeguard on technology, which is more characteristic of right-leaning individuals.

    However…I recall that Joseph once posted a link to an article, and GMAB responded by asking what the article said. I too, of course, could not read the article, as Yeshivanet connections do not allow on-the-spot access- every site needs to be pre-requested. It is a wonderful service, and extremely efficient. When I read GMAB’s response, I thought, “Does he/she have Yeshivanet too?!”. Perhaps I over generalize, and should not have thought that a strongly liberal and left-leaning approach is incongruent with extra computer safeguards.

    Well, GMAB, do you? You mentioned that you live in Miami- does Yeshivanet really service Florida? And do we have to have Yeshivanet submit signed affidavits that we are separate people?

    This story is getting even more strange…

    #623557

    Joseph
    Participant

    There is the answer! YeshivaNet is obviously using shared IP addresses between its customers, a very unusual practice these days by ISP’s, but something that obviously is still practiced!

    #623558

    Joseph
    Participant

    And Dan Lkaf Zchus makes another win… a home run… a grand slam!!!

    The impossible is always possible!

    #623559

    Sarah:

    I said I’m FROM Miami – I moved back to NY to be near my family.

    I do have a feeling that YeshivaNet customers are running off a central computer – you’ll have to ask Y. Greenfield.

    Yes, that IS why I asked “Joseph” to give a synopsis of the article – I couldn’t read it through YeshivaNet!

    #623560

    Joseph:

    YeshivaNet is an unusual ISP!

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