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Is it appropriate to allow Jewish children access to a public library? At what age? How do you restrict them from inappropriate material?
What would Rav Elyashev do? Would Rav Elyashev allow his children to browse a public library?
Answer that and you’re on your way to an answer.
Jewish people, not just children should not step foot into a public library. There is so much shmutzideka garbage there that should not be exposed to them or any yiddisha neshama. There should not be needed a way to stop them from inappropiate matireal. They should just not be going there – its just like you dont need to stop them from going into a church etc.
Ben Torah
Frankly, with the plethora of Jewish books on the market today there’s no reason to give kids non Jewish books to read. It just fills their heads with non Jewish concepts and examples of bad middos and behaviors.
Todays libraries allow kids on the internet with a library card. Additionally they have magazine racks and all kinds of inappropriate novels. They also have a videos and dvds section.
If you care about the Kedusha of your children you should keep them away from a library and if they must take out a book for school its best if the parent goes. Or they go together.
The way to restrict them from inappropriate material is to go with them and look at what they are reaching for. Or go with them prepared with a list of books that you either prepare yourself or you have asked the librarian to assist you with.
There are many great authors and many great books that WE read as kids that can still be found in libraries today, which are perfectly legitimate for our children and grandchildren. However, I would not allow them the freedom to roam around the library by themselves until they were old enough to understand the dangers of what they can fall into including innocent children’s books discussing alternative family styles like two mommies or two daddies. Or how we celebrate with a Chanuka Bush, or why our Passover Seder is different than our neighbor’s.
There are many biographies on very important people including the people who founded this country and Eretz Yisroel. There is a vast amount of knowledge to be found at the library but just as Shoprite and Walmart have both kosher and non-kosher so does the secular library and until kids are old enough to know how to look for the proper hechsher on books, they should not be left alone to pick and choose.
Both my parents ran public libraries. I basically grew up in them. I had full access not just to the shelves but the back rooms, too. I loved it. It was what kept my inquisitive mind from becoming bored. I would encourage everyone to allow their own children the same level of access — and to be prepared to answer the questions that arise honestly. There is nothing quite like forbidding a fruit that makes it attractive.
many people today have the inclination to shield their children from anything secular, the problem is that is you live in America, most likely your children will come across alot of shmutz just walking in the street and shopping in big name stores. We need to teach our children how to cope with this shmutz rather than closing their eyes so that when they do see it they have no idea how to react. I am not saying we should specifically expose our children but like aries says we should go with them and teach them how to find kosher books and what to do when they come across something objectionable.
When I was a kid, the yeshiva would regularly take us on class trips to the library.
I read literally thousands of books, both fiction and non-fiction.
The type of “alternative lifestyle” books that “aries2756” references didn’t exist in those days, and society overall was “cleaner”.
My kids are allowed to go to the library and borrow books, but I check them when they get home.
They are not allowed to use the library’s computers.
We also have a “home library” consisting of hundreds of books that I bought as a kid or great books I remembered from my childhood that were purchased from ebay.
We also buy “frum” books – the selection and quality of those is much better and more extensive than it was years ago.
The books are fiction (adventure, humor, sci-fi, etc.) and non-fiction (historical, science, trivia, reference, how-to, etc.) – both Jewish and secular.
It is up to the parents to decide what is appropriate for their kids.
myfriend, do you wear a sheitel?
Myfriend, did you ask yourself if Rav Elyashiv would go on the internet, or recommend it to his children.
Sanctimony on the internet is a wondrous thing.
Re the public library: there is a wonderful website called chinuch.org that has a fairly extensive secular booklist. There is the approved version, and the one with comments, so you can get a feel for the content of the books. There are other similar booklists around; one school I know has one but they don’t have fantasy, which eliminates a lot of the Harry Potter-inspired stuff.
Parents who are so inclined can also simply preread their kids’ stuff, but there is not enough Judaica out there for some bookworms; it’s expensive; Judaica libraries understandably place limits that won’t suffice for many families.
To answer the OP, we’ve found the public library a phenomenal resource, planned our summers around the programs when running camp Mommy and the libraries still had funding, gone to story time
and more. Interestingly, as my kids get older, they’re editing themselves and restricting themselves to Judaica, or getting the lion’s share of their reading from Judaica. And mostly, the good stuff, too, B”H, like biographies.
I live in the Monsey area. The local library is always patronized by chareidim. And due to the demographics, the library responds in kind. It has a large judaica section, and an even larger Yiddish section. As a community resource, it aims to serve the community.
Those who suggest that the frum world has created enough literature so as to obviate the need for our children to read any secular literature, are deluding themselves. Great works of literature are great and become “classics” because they are both timeless and universal. Take a relatively benign example of Tolsty’s Ivan Ilyich, who imparts so much to us about how to live a fulfilling life, in his failure to do so, and then what it is like to see the hope and dreams of life fade away when it too late to make things right. Does not Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness not give us a window into the heart of evil? Does not Lord Jim teach us something about repentance? Fitzgerald’s Gatsby slaps us in the face with own venality. I could go on. I can’t think of a single contemporary work of Judaic literature that come near to those great works.
Libraries are also research centers. Children should learn and know how to use those resources. The sooner they start, the sooner they can begin to think and look at the world independently. The only reason not to expose a child to the library is because one wants to close the world off from him. But “mayim genuvim yimtaku” and doing so only increases the temptation to access that which is denied them. Or as the old joke goes “. . .Oib kenst Ich nisht geyin ariber di vant, az gei Ich arunter. . .”
When I went to Yeshiva Toras Emes Kamenitz in Boro Park, they took the whole kindergarten class to the library to get library cards.
I can’t speak for all kids and all libraries, but the ones in Bklyn have a much bigger danger than problem books.
Its called internet access. Think all kids go to read? Think again.
uncensored…not true.
ben torah from your general opinion and comments we can tell what you think but why dont you post your opinion.
how do you rationalize going on the internet with all your opinions?
my oldest is 6 my wife goes to the libaray and takes my kids often.
Is it appropriate to allow Jewish children access to a public library?
With or without parents?
*library
Is it appropriate to allow Jewish children access to a public library?
With or without parents?
I wasn’t aware that libraries have parents. You learn something new every day. 🙂
The Wolf
I’m a big fan of lending libraries. I think it can help teach children about sharing, responsibility and paying fines if you aren’t (I learnt a lot about that one growing up LOL).
You need to teach your children to behave in all sorts of situations. Learning to function in public is important. You can help your children learn how to censor (by helping them) and avoiding the internet if that’s your thing.
Libraries are not more evil than Barnes and Noble.
ben torah what do you have against libraries? besides the internet or is that it.
Arc –
They may have “filters” of a sort, but it will still let our yeshiva / bais yaakov eyes see all sorts of things they don’t see at home.
Many of these kids do not have televisions, and on-line (even the library filtered kind ) gives them a real shock.
And no, I don’t have my kids walk around blind-folded. But seeing the stuff that can get thru the filter, and un-mod controlled chat rooms, no, that’s not a good diet.
All I’m saying is, watch what your kids are doing. Even in the library.
Ben Torah,
Are you against learning and acquiring new knowledge, or where the librarians mean to you fro returning a book late when you where young?
Really, can you actually articulate some halachik basis for restricting access to libraries? Is there a reason not to allow our children to drink in the knowledge and thinking of others, and when they come across something that is incorrect or misguided based on out Torah knowledge allowing them to come to us so that we can explain why it is wrong?
I suppose keeping them in the dark is much more comfortable. It allows us to avoid complicated and serious discussions that may force us to think about what we take for granted. It allows us to avoid challenging our own understanding sufficiently to be able to relate concepts in a reasonable and convincing manner to our children.
Might make us more comfortable, but I doubt it makes out children any better as human beings, or Jews.
Public libraries is just that “public” and the computers are out where all can see. If you do not allow your kids to go on the computers then they should be told that someone will see them and tell you if they do. In addition, no one has the nerve to go on shmutzek sites in the library when anyone can look over their shoulders. In addition I believe that the use of computers at the library are limited in time increments because members are given appointments to use the computers. You can’t just grab a computer, you have to sign up to be scheduled for an appointed slot. Not so poshut.
In addition everything is computerized these days, so even the books kids take out is no secret. I don’t believe that minor children have the right of privacy and if parents want to know what books their minor children have borrowed, they may actually have the right to ask the librarian to check the computer and give them a print out. So parent can tell their children that they may at any point do that. Jewish children will also have that inborn issue of making a chilul Hahsem if they try to take out an inappropriate book because the Librarian will know that they are doing it.
All these things can and should be explained to frum kids when introducing them to the Public Library and at each step that you give them more liberty, freedom and responsibility for their own choices.
Ben Torah-
Hi.
“ICOT: How do you know what your kids read in the library (and don’t bring home)?“
There are two ways of reading your question:
1) Do I trust jr. not to deliberately read inappropriate stuff in the library, thereby bypassing parental scrutiny? Yes, I do.
ICOT –
Are your kids boys? And more specificaly, teen BOYS?
Take it from a former teen boy; once you’ve seen something not on the approved list, it takes a whole lot of scouring to get the mind thoroghly cleaned.
Kinda like a grapejuice stain on a tablecloth, it never come out completely. So best be VERY careful.
Forget the internet for a moment, what could be so bad in a library book? They don’t stock pornographic material.
Ben Torah-
BP Totty-
The way we do things is based on (among other things) my personal library experiences as a child, teen and young adult.
A parent should know their own child(ren), and based on their age and personality decide what is or isn’t appropriate as well as which harchakos are needed.
SJS –
No telling what’s in stock in the NNJ libraries, but the paperback racks in the BPL carry enough firepower to ruin even the best kid. You’re thinking like an adult and see how you can weight / sift out right from wrong. Kids don’t have that abibilty (yet) and the library is not the place for them to learn.
ICOT –
Today’s world is not the same as it was 5 years ago. Today’s kids are 10x as savvy, and the natural curiosity is presisly what on-line sites prey feed off of.
Its sad that I must adress such a stupid quetion.
Dont let kids go to a public liabrary with out a parent or legal gaurdian!
Its not safe.
speritauly and phyisicallY!
SJS, case in point: read Gordon Korman starting with MacDonald Hall, and what was clearly young adult at the time, A Semester in the Life of a Garbage Bag. Contrast that with the middle school kids of No More Dead Dogs and the senior high kids of Son of the Mob.
That is the TIP of the young adult literature iceberg. Kind of like how PG-13 with the shmutz may sometimes be worse than R with the violence. Not everyone has our boundaries, varied as they may be.
“intelectual”, from your spelling abilities it is quite obvious that you didn’t/don’t spend too much time in the library!
In addition, no one has the nerve to go on shmutzek sites in the library when anyone can look over their shoulders.
You’d think so but thats not always the case. You wouldn’t believe what i’ve seen on other peoples screens in NYPL
I don’t think it is a problem for young children to read books from a public library as long as the parents check what they are reading. However it is important to teach your child that there is such a thing as a bad book. I grew up in a home where reading was very much encouraged. As a child I knew that TV and Movies were bad but I didn’t know there could be bad books. Because of this, when I was a teen (I still am) I didn’t think to worry about coming across something totally inappropriate in a book. When I read one of these inappropriate books (that many of my friends were reading, and did not know better) I was shocked to see how disgusting it was.
I think parents need to be really careful with what their teenagers read. As a teenager I see what girls in my class read and I don’t think their parents would be happy if they knew they were reading these shmutzy books.I think dirty books can be way worse than movies because a book is something you read in private and teens can read the most horrible books without their parents knowing. But don’t think that telling your kids not to go to the library as they will borrow books from their friends or figure out a way to get them if they really want to. I think that more importantly, parents need to give their children a strong foundation so that they won’t even want to read these books. Maybe a lack of knowledge in frum teens leads them to want to find things out from goyish sources. You should trust your kids and teach them how Yidden view these issues and then maybe kids won’t feel a need to read inappropriate materials. Make your children to feel comfortable enough to approach you to ask questions and don’t lie to them or avoid answering them, otherwise they will find out from the nonjewish ways. Don’t blame it on the library.
Tzippi, that’s true. I was thinking about this on the bus – I did read a lot of things at a young age that was inappropriate (like Stephen Kind and John Grisham at 10-11).
SJS, Stephen King at 10/11? Didn’t that give you nightmares for the rest of your life?
We hired a BY teenager to babysit one evening. She asked me if she could use the computer to type some schoolwork. Since we don’t have internet (I’m on YeshivaNet), I agreed.
Next morning, my oldest daughter told me that Sitter had been watching a dvd that she had borrowed from local BPL, and described the parts she had seen until Sitter had noticed her presence and prudently closed the screen.
It was a dvd not certifiable as kosher by lenient standards.
Some BPLs have dvd and magazine racks whose contents were described by Rav S. Schwab, ztz”l, as “sensual poison”.
At my local branch, those racks are at the entrance.
“Children, enter with your heads turned to the right.”
The first time I used a public library was in HS to take a book I had to do a report on and have since used it for research. The quiet rule makes it a great place for homework! This was before the libraries had computers, I’m not sure I would let my kids use the library unsuperviseed or for non research/school related things. I have been shocked at what I saw people (even frum people) doing and watching on the computer or asking the librarian for generes of books that were compeltly inappropriate. They didn’t even want a specific author just a specific type! I think parents have to be aware of what is in the books that their kids are taking out. I once saw a father taking out books for his young son. I don’t think he really knew how to read, but his wife probably told him to take any Dr Seuss book. He (or maybe his son) chose the Grinch Stole —-. The librariann gave him a quizical look and asked if he wanted that book and he said yes. I sometimes wonder what happened when he got home…
Dvd’s, magazines and books are also in pharmacies, shopping malls, and other stores. All these things you fear from in a library can easily be bought or read while shopping. Do you take your kids shopping? Do you send them on their own? Where did the now 40, 50 and 60 year olds get the things they shouldn’t have gotten before dvd’s and vhs as well as internet were invented?
Teach your kids appropriately. Be the best role model you can be. Keep the lines of communications open. Let them understand the reasons why you are guiding them away from shmutz.
Dvd’s, magazines and books are also in pharmacies, shopping malls, and other stores. All these things you fear from in a library can easily be bought or read while shopping. Do you take your kids shopping? Do you send them on their own? Where did the now 40, 50 and 60 year olds get the things they shouldn’t have gotten before dvd’s and vhs as well as internet were invented?
Teach your kids appropriately. Be the best role model you can be. Keep the lines of communications open. Let them understand the reasons why you are guiding them away from shmutz.
AND one more point I forgot to bring out. When WE were kids WE didn’t have the luxury of all the Jewish books to balance or take our interest away from the goyish books. We read all the books about Jack and Jill, Jane and Timmy, and all the other books that had both boys and girls in them. And yes they were still clean when we were 10 and 11.
As we grew older there were stories about boyfriends and girlfriends which were still clean and then we had Nancy Drew and the boys read Andy Hardy and the Hardy boys detective stories. My kids read Babysitters club books and scholastic books.
B”H kids do have a lot of Jewish books to balance their thoughts and to understand the difference of what is Kosher and what is not. They also have a concept of why boys and girls are separated in school and they know that girls and boys don’t mingle and chat. So if they pick up inappropriate books it is not that difficult to tell them, those stories are not shayach to Jewish kids because we don’t behave that way so maybe they should choose something else that would be more interesting to them and something they could relate to better.
Ben Torah, allowing your kids out of the house is playing with fire. Unfortunately, allowing your kids out of your sight is playing with fire. Even allowing them to go to school is playing with fire now that we all know that bad things can happen in school.
The best thing we can do for our kids is teach them right from wrong and teach them how to protect themselves in all areas of their life.
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