November 11, 2015 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #616647Rabbi of CrawleyParticipant
I personally believe that Sephardi in eretz yisroel should not be wearing black yeshivish hats, which is very common nowadays. The whole reason why Ashkenazim wear it was because in Europe, this was the way of appearing respectfully and so we continue with the ways of our zaides. for the sefardim to wear these hats is a joke! The sefardim have such a great mesorah, why should they copy the ways of the ashkenazim??? For sefardim in america, germany, Britain, fine. They want to dress like the community does .
But eretz yisrael, not only it is of mixed heritage (sefardi/ashkenazi),so there is no one community, The majority of jews in israel are sefardim.
If you’re going to tell me that it’s for a chumrah in tefillah, then they should wear a turban, pee cap or rishon letzion kind of hat or anything else, why copy the ashkenazim????November 11, 2015 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1112107November 11, 2015 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #1112108
1. If the Sephardim stop wearing a black hat, they’ll need to go back to the traditional Sephardic head coverings like they wore for thousands of years. Something like what the Baba Sali wore.
2. The majority of Jews in Eretz Yisroel are Ashkenazim. Check the Israel Bureau of Statistics.November 11, 2015 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1112109👑RebYidd23Participant
Argue this with an individual in public. More fun.November 11, 2015 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1112110zahavasdadParticipant
Rav Ovadiah Yosef wore a black hat many timesNovember 12, 2015 12:16 am at 12:16 am #1112111screwdriverdelightParticipant
I personally believe that Askenzim in America and most (maybe all) places should not be wearing black yeshivish hats, which is very common nowadays. The whole reason why Ashkenazim wear it was because in Europe, this was the way of appearing respectfully but in America it’s not the way. for ashkenazim to wear these hats nowadays is a joke!November 12, 2015 1:27 am at 1:27 am #1112112
Jews always have worn a head covering (more than a yarmulka only.)November 12, 2015 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1112113
By the way, Sephardim didn’t traditionally wear a yarmulka. Should they get rid of that too?November 12, 2015 2:28 am at 2:28 am #1112114akupermaParticipant
Fashions are constantly evolving. The lowly fedora which was an “un-dress” hat similar to a cap, becomes a fancy Shabbos-dik hat. Once no one would be causght dead wearing pants, and now almost all men wear them (some Scots and some Arabs excepted). It used to be everyone wore boots outdoors, and almost no one does now (at least for “dress”). I’ld discuss how underwear has changed but this is a family site. While halacha affects modesty, for the most part clothing styles evolve quite independently. It happens that an Ashkenazi style hat, which originally was a working hat until it became dressy about 70 years ago, has spread to Sefardim. Fashions change. If you dress up like people did 50 or 100 years ago, and walked down the street, people would think you are some sort of historic reinactor.November 12, 2015 3:56 am at 3:56 am #1112115☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
I assume it is worn to identify with the yeshiva world (the actual one).November 12, 2015 4:23 am at 4:23 am #1112116
I have a very hard time understanding why Sefardim are allowed to wear hats on Shabbos.
Joseph: That’s not so true. There are Teshuvos from the times of the Rishonim that make it clear that the majority of Jews did not cover their heads, even when learning and making Brachos.November 12, 2015 4:37 am at 4:37 am #1112117Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
This is really somewhat of a repeat thread, and it’s as ridiculous now as it was then. Sphardim will wear whatever Sphardim want to wear! I find it absurd that to come across as culturally sensitive posters feel the need to say certain people SHOULDN’T be able to dress as they please.
Sphardim should wear turbans and robes? Should African Americans wear tribal garb? Should Native Americans wear loin cloths? Please, be reasonable. They have every bit as much right to keep up with the normal fashion as anybody else. And if an Ashkenazi wanted to wear a turban for his second head covering during davening then he could go right ahead. Something tells me it wouldn’t catch on.November 12, 2015 4:50 am at 4:50 am #1112118
I have a very hard time understanding why Sefardim are allowed to wear hats on Shabbos.
Chukas akum?November 12, 2015 5:51 am at 5:51 am #1112119Avi KParticipant
You got in wrong again, Joseph. The Central Bureau of Statistics does not keep records on ethnic background, only on country of birth. It is widely believed that slightly more that half of Israeli Jews are Sepharadim or from the Eidot HaMizrach although being that there are many “intermarriages” that is difficult to determine. Anyway, I know someone who holds that jeans are the only Jewish garment today as they were invented by a Jew (Levi Strauss).November 12, 2015 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1112120
DY: Ohel. All the Ashkenazi Heterim/Limmudei Zechus for wearing a hat on Shabbos were rejected by Sefardi Poskim, for the most part. Either that or just ignored.November 12, 2015 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #1112121Rabbi of CrawleyParticipant
The Ashkenazim have to be ashamed of one big thing, with many different words – assimilation, emancipation, liberalism, Zionism, why would sefardim even want to dress like these people?????????????
Next time I’ll just deleteNovember 12, 2015 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1112122Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
“THE ASHKENAZIM HAVFE TO BE ASHAMED OF ONE BIG THING, WITH MANY DIFFERENT WORDS – ASSIMILATION, EMANCIPATION, LIBERALISM, ZIONISM”
The Ashkenazim only have to be ashamed of one thing: we have self-loathers in our midst saying things like this. We should be ashamed to be born Ashkenaz? You sound just like the American left who says all whites should be ashamed just by virtue of being born. The biases in our community perfectly mirror those of the mainstream world. How well would Crawley’s hateful comment have gone over had it been made against Sphardim instead of Ashkenazim? It’s open season on all Western customs in our liberal society. When an Ashkenazi takes on Sphardi customs against those of his fathers, it’s viewed as a beautiful intermixing of cultures by the religious left. When a Sphard does so, it’s all oy chaval, what a shame, how dare he wear that hat.
Sam: Um what? I assume you’re talking about wearing a second hat, and not suggesting that Sphardim should go totally bare-headed on Shabbos. Even so, what’s the issue? Carrying?November 12, 2015 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #1112123karlbenmarxParticipant
its against their mesora, to wear these hats.November 12, 2015 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1112124flatbusherParticipant
I can’t imagine why this should bother the original poster so much. It seems that the yeshivish among them feel it makes a recognizable statement of who they are, why criticize it?November 12, 2015 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1112125
Sam, not all hats have a tefach. Besides, the Sefardim who learn in Ashkenazi yeshivos often follow Ashkenazic halachah, e.g., eating non Bais Yosef meat. Is this even a Mechaber/Rama type of issue that Sefardim should davka follow Sefardic poskim? Also, do you know for a fact that no Sefardic poskim are mattir?November 12, 2015 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1112126November 15, 2015 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1112127YaakovParticipant
I don’t understand. The Ashkenazim may have a reason for why they started wearing these hats, but the black hat has taken on a whole different role nowadays. The black hat of today symbolizes a person who identifies himself as belonging to the “Yeshiva World”. Would you expect a Sephardic person wear turbans in modern days simply because that’s what their ancestors wore?! That’s ridiculous! Wearing a turban nowadays would be extremely unusual (especially where I live), whereas the black hat is more accepted throughout the world. And concerning Sepharadim being allowed to wear them on Shabbat, I am extremely confused. The black hat for the person wearing it is part of his L’vush. It is just like his shirt, pants, or shoes. Would you also say that wearing a baseball cap in the rain on Shabbat would be prohibited??November 16, 2015 4:26 am at 4:26 am #1112128
DY: I certainly hope there aren’t Sephardim in Ashkenazi Yeshivos eating non-BY meat, R”L.November 16, 2015 4:32 am at 4:32 am #1112129
There are, with the consent of their Sefardic poskim,. There are also people whose family minhag is to wait six hours who eat a milchige supper in BMG.
The sevara is that your yeshiva becomes your makom, and you follow minhag hamakom.November 16, 2015 6:08 am at 6:08 am #1112130american_yerushalmiParticipant
I don’t understand the problem at all. YWN chooses to identify with the Yeshiva World. So, if some Sephardim also choose to do so, what’s the big deal?November 16, 2015 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #1112131
The Sfardim lean toward the Ashkenazim in E”Y because they were the ones who saved them from the Zionist’s SHMAD. There were no Sfardi Chadarim. Today they would rather be a Chareidi. This fact seems to be very pain full to the Ro Crawly(probably an anti-religious zionist). As evident the Zionist have a very hard time swallowing these Sfardim they worked so hard to uproot, are not only religious but respect these very Ashkenazim they tried to turn them against.
Whether Ashkenazi or Sfardi is not at all important in Torah True Judaism.
This thread was started probably to prove once again ‘The biggest Anti-Semits call themselves Jews’November 16, 2015 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1112132
Rabbi of Crawley; UNLESS you are a Sfardi and just looking for supporters to wear the traditional sfardi head covering then i wish you good luck!November 16, 2015 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #1112133
Sam; What is your source? it has always been said that Yekkes did not cover their head in the office due to Haskalla.
Sfardim did not always cover their heads. But they ALWAYS covered it when davening, making brachos and eating. And of course learning – for those who learned.(It was less common for Sfardim to learn)November 16, 2015 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #1112134
555: There’s an Or Zarua and a … Rashbash, I think.November 17, 2015 4:24 am at 4:24 am #1112135Binyamin2711Participant
IT SEFARADI NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH SEFARDNovember 17, 2015 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1112136
Binyamin: Thank you for pointing that out. I was never makpid on the spelling because i never heard anybody refer to people who daven Nusach ‘SFARD’ as Sfardi or Sfardim. But now i see it can be easily misunderstood.
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