April 19, 2009 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #589685
lets use this thread to give suggestions of some Sefira Music CD’s! i really love music & would like to hear what others listen to on Sefira!
(noitallmr: this music thread should be right up your alley!)
& since this is the YWN CR, lets discuss Acapella music-yes, no, ect….!April 19, 2009 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #882706
i personally think there’s nothing wrong with accapella but i know some people who don’t listen to it, because they feel that in order to have real aveilus you have to follow the spirit of the law and not just the letter of the law-what does everyone think about this?April 19, 2009 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #882707
Jax, good thread!
First, not everyone holds that it’s ok, ask your LOR. I personally love music and acapella doesn’t pull me too much in comparison to real music so I sorta gave it up a few years ago… I do remember the shabbos acapella being pretty good but this is going back a while…April 20, 2009 1:53 am at 1:53 am #882709
kapusta: i was surpised no one else started such a thread, so i did!April 20, 2009 4:21 am at 4:21 am #882710
Can I get a heter to listen to music during sefira? It’s really tough for me to live without music… But until I can convince someone that I’ll actually wither away without it, I stick with A.K.A. pella–all three albums.April 20, 2009 4:40 am at 4:40 am #882711
beacon, first, glad to have ya back!
second, if you’re looking for a real heter, I would suggest asking someone like a rabbi and not just random people in the CR, I’m trying really hard not to watch anything and I’m telling myself it’s only 22 days until lag baomer… hope I could pull through but I’m not sure, good luck!April 20, 2009 4:41 am at 4:41 am #882712
beacon: welcome back, please post more! i’m with ya it’s hard living without good music on sefira!April 20, 2009 4:51 am at 4:51 am #882713
kapusta and jax- ‘preciate it 🙂
and kapust- I’m not asking for anyone here to give me the heter, trust me.April 20, 2009 4:55 am at 4:55 am #882714
Jax, normally, during my CR time I have music on, I cant handle only doing one thing at a time, it gets too boring and I feel like somethings wrong. I guess thats what sefira is all about.April 20, 2009 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #882715
Hey Jax you got that right- this is totally up my street (good to see you by the way just realized that you are asdfghjkl!!!!)
Anyways back to the point I’m not gonna go into whether it’s mutar or not to listen to in the Oimer but Premium Blend by A.K.A Pella is really really good and took a lot of talent to produce. There’s song called “Asher Boro” on it which is one of the most musical acapela tracks I’ve ever heard…really amazing check it out.
Enjoy and hopefully this Shavous well all be in Jeruselam…April 20, 2009 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #882716
Personally I listen to all music during sefira. When my father died, our rav told me that since I always listen to music, it is not a “simcha m’reiut” for me to do so. Since the aveilut of Sefira is no more stringent that the 12 months of mourning for a parent, and in the 24 years since my father died I have become more musically involved and not less, it stands to reason that it is muttar for me to listen to music during sefira and during the three weeks. I do however refrain from live music since concerts are a rare treat for me.April 20, 2009 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #882717
cantoresq WHAT??? I REPEAT WHAT?????????????
Why do you always listen to music??? Because you ENJOY it…are you sure this Rov knows his stuff???April 20, 2009 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #882718
I was told that R’ Chaim Kanievsky shlita holds acapella music isn’t allowed during sefirah. I was told this by someone very close to him, who personally asked him the question.
During sefirah, there isn’t an issur to listen to music. There is an issur to dance. Since music easily leads to dancing, we don’t listen to music. All the acapella music these days tries to sound like there are instruments, and they can just as easily lead to dancing. Therefore, many poskim hold they’re not allowed.
You can, however, listen to slow music or classical music according to many poskim. in my car, I have a CD with some Beethoven, Mozart, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, and some others which I enjoy listening to. I also have the soundtrack to Disney’s Fantasia, which is various pieces of classical music.April 20, 2009 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #882719
I personally make the choice not to listen to music during Sefira. However, I was always taught that Sefira is not meant to be observed as aveilus on the order of even The Three Weeks. It is a very small part of aveilus, so we do not hold public displays of simcha, or as was pointed out, dance. Since music often leads to dancing (no dumb jokes here, please), most people refrain from listening to music in a public forum, and many refrain even privately. But I am not sure the halacha is that private listening to music is assur. The original Sefira period was, after all, a time of great simcha, as we counted the Omer towards Kabalas HaTorah.April 20, 2009 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #882720
noitallmr this rav has more Torah in his pinky finger nail than anyone in this CR has in their entire body. No one ever said enjoyment was forbidden in aveilut. Simcah m’reiut is not allowed. Big difference.April 20, 2009 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #882721
hey i was going to keep my two cents to myself but how about this: since the bais hamikdash was destroyed we’re really all in aveilus. we shouldn’t be listening to live music stam. the rabbis were meikil because our generations would be too depressed without music. (some say not to listen to live, and not in yerushalayim, but everyone says recorded is fine, right?)
so here’s my question: why is the aveilus for rabbi akiva’s students greater the the aveilus for the bais hamikdash? if they were meikil for that, then it should apply for all year long. the three weeks i understand more because it’s more intense time, but why here?April 20, 2009 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #882722
moish01: If something was observed all the time, it would be the norm, and we wouldn’t think about it much. If we never listened to music, we wouldn’t think twice about it. Because we have a set time period for sefirah, where things are different, we notice it more, and actually think about it.April 20, 2009 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #882723
you make that sound like you’re allowed to listen to music all year round so that during sfira you’ll feel it. sounds a bit backwards to me.April 20, 2009 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #882724
a Heter because you listen to music a lot is spurious at best.
however there are true Heterim for sure
ask a Shaila
some hold for example if you need music to alleviate depression, or to help you exercise, it is Mutar.April 21, 2009 12:50 am at 12:50 am #882725
A.K.A pella has a lot of tunes that are taking diretcly from goyishe songs and even though it might not be actual music but it sure sounds like instruments are playing. For these reasons I don’t listen to their music. If I really need to listen to something, I’ll listen to Lev Tahor 3 or something like that with no crazy computerized voices sounding like an instrument. I think other people can also live for 33/365 of the year without real music and try to show a little aveilus for the 12,000 pairs of Rabbi Akiva’s talmidim who were niftar during this period.April 21, 2009 12:58 am at 12:58 am #882726
noitallmr: good to see ya too, yeah i did know this was your type! i had no idea A.KA. Pella was that great, i think i’ll go buy it! all i found in my house was miami around the campfire & i’m really board of that one! (btw in the keyboard thread you rally had no ide it was me?)April 21, 2009 1:34 am at 1:34 am #882727
May i add my two cents here…cantoresq is absolutely right..there is no-repeat- NO issur to listen to music during sefirah. As matter of fact, the Shulchan ARuch and the Remo only prohibit weddings and cutting hair (and beard). In the mishne beruroh , you will find that, in later years, they prohibited “Mecholos”- i.e. dancing to music and only LIVE music. I never understood why listening to a radio or a CD is should be ossur. Othwerwise, why can you sing in sefirah? moish01 has a point. The issur of having live music al lyera round is mentioned in halcha, although gnerally disregarded. It makes no sense to be machmir during sefirah and not the whole year round.Lastly, I heard that R”Moshe zz’l told Jewish music stations to play “chazanut” in the sefira days, as they do not come under the issur of ‘mecholos”. (cantoresq-you’ll be pleased to hear that i am reading ‘the man who spoke to G-d’ ,a book you recommended some months ago.)April 21, 2009 2:34 am at 2:34 am #882728
wow what an honor to have ROB in this thread, although i do not agree with what he just said!April 21, 2009 3:35 am at 3:35 am #882730
Is it mutar to shave during sefira? (mods I think this is worth posting so please do)April 21, 2009 6:11 am at 6:11 am #882731
no cutting hair or shaving or anything! (that’s one thing i’ll keep ;))April 21, 2009 6:31 am at 6:31 am #882732
yros: your old enough to shave?April 21, 2009 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #882733
The Man Who Spoke to G-d is a very important work. I’ve read certain articles three or four times thus far.April 21, 2009 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #882734
I personally am very machmir to not listen to music during the entire sefira.
Actually, this is just fake piety for me. It gives me an excuse to ask people to turn off music when I am around. I don’t like music – its just a headache to me.April 21, 2009 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #882735
I’ve heard of a heter to listen to taped (not live) music during sefira attributed to a reputable source but I will not say who as I’m not 1000% sure. I don’t listen though.
There’s a difference between a capella and some of the stuff out there. A group of people singing in harmony is one thing, but the computer enhancements can be problematic. CYLOR.April 21, 2009 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #882736
a few words to jax,tzippi and yros and moishi1….jax, you may not agree with my views but you have to justify your strict prohibition on any music during sefira with some real surces…please provide them 1
to tzippi- If my memory serves me right, Yeshiva R’Chaim Berlin talmidim heard that opinion from the Rosh yeshiva ,Rav Hutner zz’l. It dovetails with the shulchan aruch and the mishne berura who, clearly, only prohibits live music.
to yors and moishi1, the question of shaving- in contrast to cutting hair- during sefira is complex. Cutting hair is clearly prohibited and there are no hetterim for that. For shaving, it is more complex because-unlike cutting hair- you do it every day and one looks terrbile of not shaven after a few days. Hence, there are various hetterim for shaving erev shabbos or at certain simchas. I’ll be happy to point to the sources.April 21, 2009 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #882737
Regarding shaving, I have heard (I can’t remember from whom) that only hair cutting was mentioned. Shaving was never mentioned as being assur. Shaving is not the same as getting a hair cut.April 21, 2009 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #882738
R’ Moshe wrote some teshuvos in the Igros Moshe regarding music during sefirah. I’m not sure exactly where, though – check OC 1:166. R’ Moshe also holds that recorded music has the same status as live music.
R’ Scheinberg holds that music which won’t lead to dancing is ok, so slow music isn’t an issue.
R’ Willig (from YU) holds that since we are lenient during the year on listening to music, we can be lenient during sefirah as well, we just need to make sure we don’t dance at all.April 21, 2009 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #882739
If I am not mistaken I think Chofetz Chaim talmidim shave erev shabbos during sefira, I assume Rav Henoch ZTL said its muttar. Is that true?April 21, 2009 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #882740
hey come to think of it, my father shaves but i don’t think he cuts his hair. he’s a lawyer and i remember one year for some reason he didn’t – it was actually kind of weird 😉April 21, 2009 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #882741
If a person will lose parnassa by not shaving, then that is a separate issue. If he is a lawyer and looking scruffy will cause clients or juries to not trust him as much, then I assume its would be muttar for him to shave.April 21, 2009 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #882742
yeah i know that. i was just commenting on what rabbiofberlin said – that there’s a difference between shaving and a haircut.
and rabbiof berlin, you don’t sound like a chaim berlin-er. at all.April 21, 2009 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #882743
ROB, I think that the quote you are looking for is that music cannot become ossur through observing Sefirah because ain issur chal al issur.
The quote is not quite the same without the tail, is it?April 21, 2009 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #882745
squeak- this is nto exactly what was meant by moish and others but it is kind of an analogy. Rabbi Willig’s comments (see Feif un) are along the same line.
moish01- whether I am a “chaim-berliner’ or not, I will keep to myself, but I am pretty sure this has been common practice for years at the yeshiva. If it has changed, it is recent. Please check with some of the present talmidim.
feif un, you have to show the source for what you claim R,Moshe says-that recorded music is the same as live music. This doesn’t hold water logically and hence, I’d like a real “mekor”.
charlie brown- what you heard is true about the “chofetz chaim” talmidim and also at other yeshivos- notably baltimore. There are good sources for it and I’ll point them out if you require them.April 21, 2009 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #882746
i'[m not checking anything – i told you i’m really frum so i don’t get haircuts from pesach… till chanuka 😉April 21, 2009 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #882747
I think his teshuva on recorded music might be in the same one I mentioned earlier – OC 1:166, but I’m not sure.April 21, 2009 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #882748
moish: Do you not shower or cut your nails either?! 😉April 21, 2009 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #882749
On the one hand, Rav Moshe gave a heter for music during the year since we are a nervous society and music calms the nerves. Also, the dancing “macholos” referred to in halacha is skilled fancy step dancing, not putting one foot in front of the other that is done at many simchos.
On the other side, there are poskim who hold that the instrument player which produces sound from tapes, records, CDs is no different from any musical instrument that produces music sound.April 21, 2009 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #882750
haha those i do only on shabbos morning (if i’m up early enough – otherwise i gotta wait till the next week ;))April 21, 2009 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #882751
I desperately need to listen to fast music when I jog otherwise I’m gona just klutz along. Think I could get a heter?April 21, 2009 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #882752
i got such a heter a few years ago
but ask a shailaApril 21, 2009 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #882753
moish and ROB, verified. Chaim Berliners listen to recorded music.
~a~April 22, 2009 12:58 am at 12:58 am #882754
ROB: wow a comment from you, directed to me! talk about flattery! i’m typing this post while standing at my computer! 😉 and no i will not list my Rabbaim, that i hold from that say no music on sefira! although my LOR, paskins we can listen to sefira acapella music on sefira! the end, i’ll sit down now!April 22, 2009 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #882755
jax=== we are all equal on this website so i am always happy to address any subject of interest…anyway-as you can see from other postings-there are plenty of “tzedoddim lehetter’ there are plenty of possibilities to listen to some music. if you don’t want to- no problem-your choice, but remember that lag baomer is coming up and “Bar Joch-oi”is a must to sing!April 22, 2009 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #882756
Rob: points heard, and i’m nodding my head!April 22, 2009 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #882757
ROB: wow a comment from you, directed to me! talk about flattery! i’m typing this post while standing at my computer! 😉 and no i will not list my Rabbaim, that i hold from that say no music on sefira! although my LOR, paskins we can listen to sefira acapella music on sefira! the end, i’ll sit down now!
Post of the year! jax you’re qwacked
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