Sem Girls Brainwashing Married Women working

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  • #601587
    jmj613
    Participant

    Hi to you all. Someone told me yesterday that the way semgirls are being brainwashed that the ideal is to find a husband that would sit and learn(and must be a talmid chacham)is to her opinion wrong. And that how many that thought they wanted such a life come to regret it but cant voice themselves because of the sociaty. Girls would have to be tought in sem that there are other ways too and that its ok. I formyself guess that gdoile hatore saw it necessary that a life for thora is the only way how to preserve yiddishkeit. What do you all think about this??

    #842863
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    midwesterner

    Member

    For the record, one of my roshei yeshiva was approached to sign as one of the original 70 and refused. He holds that girls should marry as close as possible to the spiritual high they are on when returning home from seminary in Israel. The longer they are back in America, the more their hashkafos get diluted. Remember they are not in Yeshiva like the bochurim. Most of them are out in the world, and being exposed to religiously compromising influences. So I can assure you, he does not hold of this one either.

    Personally, I think Sems are not only Sam Hill’s minions, but the chief. Possibly even the being heesself. 🙂

    Seriously, there are some good ones (BJJ comes to mind), but most are garbage, and exist to employ Yidden in Eretz Yisroel (which in of itself is not a bad thing).

    #842864
    skiaddict
    Member

    What do you mean sems are garbage??? Not one semgirl will agree with that!

    #842865
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    brainwashed

    That term is used way too loosely, whenever someone is in opposition to an ideal which is taught.

    Secular Jews think that we frum Jews are all brainwashed into keeping Shabbos.

    I could just as easily say that your friend was “brainwashed” into thinking that a life dedicated to learning Torah is not the ideal for a Jewish family.

    #842866

    My old dorm counsler from high school said that he always wanted to open a seminary for american girls. Not to teach them but just as a money maker.

    Think about it, you dont feed them but once a day, you dont really need to teach them much other than “marry a learning boy” or “make sure you are covered up to the point that sunlight cant touch your skin”

    Just sit back and watch the money roll in.

    #842867
    bpt
    Participant

    ” What do you all think about this?? “

    JMJ – I think you need to take the time to write what you want to say in a coherent manner. Clearly, what you want to discuss is of interest, but for the life of me, I have no idea what side of the issue you are on.

    And GAW – Its so funny you should mention this thought, because just last week, I was listening to “Machashefa” from Rechnizter Rejects. Heesself. Ha!

    #842868
    jmj613
    Participant

    Well I disagreed with her because I see torah learning but in a serious way only as the top priority. Which means marriyin of a girl who really wanted a true ben thora to someone who just spends his time in koilel is unfair. If husband and wife a re serious in it anf she wants to work and be the mother at the same times its top. But I can understand that after some time when it gets tough in all ways its just normal to consider for a man to look for work(maybe a shtelle which is hard to find nowadays) and anyways if start to think about brainwashin…were all brainwashed. But there are ppl who truly believe in it with their heart and soul and want it

    #842869
    cinderella
    Member

    I know a few girls who were not allowed to date until after Succos of their first year back from seminary. I think that this is a very good idea. Post seminary girls need a few months to come back down to earth.

    Someone mentioned above that the atmosphere in America is so not holy so girls should marry while they still have a taste if the kedusha of Eretz Yisroel.

    These girls will live in America after marriage. Isn’t it better that they fall back down to earth before picking the guy they have to spend the rest of their lives with?

    What happens when a girl, still on a spiritual high from seminary, marries a kollel guy. She loves it at first but then the excitement wears off and she realizes that kollel life is not for her. Had she come to this conclusion before marrying, things would have been a lot easier for her.

    And not all seminaries are garbage. I’ll admit some are nothing more than fluff, but there are some really good ones.

    #842870
    mommamia22
    Participant

    Gavra

    “…there are some good ones…. Most are garbage”

    Women in seminary don’t sit around and talk about shidduchim and tichels all day. They learn Halacha, hashkafah, mussar, etc, all the things that strengthen their commitment and knowledge of yiddishkeit (which allows them to be good bnos Torah, mothers and wives later. It is NOT garbage or nurishkeit.

    #842871
    soliek
    Member

    I’m calling troll

    #842872
    mdd
    Member

    Cleverjewishpun, what are you doing here? There are no Reform websites?

    #842873
    WIY
    Member

    I actually think that to solve this problem they should have minimum 2 years seminary. 1 year is really not enough for the girls that change in seminary because they need more time to grow into their new self and get comfortable with being this new changed person. The whole problem of falling back to earth only occurs because the seminary year is too short and the girls dont have enough time to “make a kinyan” on what they learned and to truly become one with their new hashkafos.

    (Im not saying Im the biggest fan of sending girls to expensive Israeli seminaries but that is a diff shmooze. My point is that whether in Israel or even in America it should be a 2 year program)

    #842874
    longarekel
    Member

    Who said girls should be going to seminary in the first place? And for that matter who said boys should go to post high-school yeshiva for so long before looking to get married?

    #842875

    @MDD,

    So because you don’t like my comment, I’m all of the sudden “reform?”

    I’m a product/victim of the system that this website claims to be. So basically, I call them like I see them.

    #842876
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    My old dorm counsler from high school said that he always wanted to open a seminary for american girls. Not to teach them but just as a money maker.

    Think about it, you dont feed them but once a day, you dont really need to teach them much other than “marry a learning boy” or “make sure you are covered up to the point that sunlight cant touch your skin”

    Just sit back and watch the money roll in.

    You don’t even have to open. Just collect application fees and you will make a killing 🙂

    bpt: Thank you.

    cinderella: Yes, there are some that are OK (especially OUTSIDE of EY), but most exist (for the girls) either to place on the shidduch resume (went to Sem x for year in EY) or to “convince” the girls to marry a Kollel Boy (and excerbate many of Klal Yisroel’s problems). For the owners they exist as cash cows.

    #842877
    WIY
    Member

    Unclevernonfrumjewishpun

    Your life will improve when you stop pointing fingers at everyone and blaming everyone for your own problems.

    Stop living under the notion that life was supposed to be easy. Its not. It is full of challenges and we all have free choice to either use the talents and tools that we were given to rise above our circumstances or to throw in the towel and give up trying.

    The chareidi system isn’t perfect but guess what there’s no system or society that is perfect. We are only human and we have to try our best. The frum society is better than all other societies that exist. Going off the derech doesn’t bring joy or fulfillment and it certainly doesn’t bring one any closer to Hashem or to fulfilling his purpose in life.

    Stop blaming and hating. Look inwards and do something positive with your life.

    #842878
    feivel
    Participant

    i dont think its proper to call cleverjewishpun reform.

    the reform, though terribly misguided, tend to be tolerant and respectful, and not act on a compulsive need to express bitterness and sarcastic antagonism to everything more religious than they.

    #842879
    BTGuy
    Participant

    HI jmj613.

    If what you heard was true, that person has a very negative, overgeneralized opinion that she should keep to herself.

    Anytime you hear someone speak so generally like that, you have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

    Especially, if you think the girls were raised in that kind of family and culture, what does this lady mean to say they will “regret that kind of life”? Nonsense!

    An opinion like that is not based on an individual circumstance and should not be spewed to everyone at large.

    On the other hand, a girl should not think that if she marries someone who learns AND works, or learns and develops a career, that there is a problem with that. But hopefully the two will be so close they will not be influenced by what others tell them to think about each other.

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