Sending Jewish Children to Secular College

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  • This topic contains 8 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Joseph 2 months ago.
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  • #1713026

    outsiderlookingin
    Participant

    How do you feel about Jewish students going to secular colleges? Where would you send your child?

    #1713088

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Depends how religious the person is.
    Depends what type the college is.
    Depends on how necessary college is.
    Depends on the the options.
    Depends on how often there is classes and for how many years.
    Depends on how strong the person is.
    Depends on what the person’s rav says.

    #1713094

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    My children have gone to both. Are you asking if everyone should go to Yeshiva University?

    #1713131

    laskern
    Participant

    I went to Brooklyn College but skipped the subo, the student center which is unecessary for a degree. I also, went to NYU Couranrt Institute.

    #1713143

    Joseph
    Participant

    Has anyone discussed r”l the number of victims who freid out in college or if didn’t all the way behind frei lost a good deal of theie Yiddishkeit?

    Probably not because when it happens these victims either don’t even realize it or simply deny it.

    #1713144

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Many davka go to a secular college then to a yeshiva University type place

    #1713148

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I think that although there are some exceptions, only adults should attend college.

    #1713150

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Two of my grandparents went to secular college
    My parents went to secular college
    All of them lived at home and went by subway
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    My siblings and I all went to secular universities and graduate schools
    My children all went to secular university and law schools
    We all lived with relatives in undergraduate school and in apartments while in graduate school, never in a dorm
    All of my generation and my children attended seminary or Yeshiva for a year or two after high school and before university.

    All of these people remained frum after secular college/university.graduate school
    All of us held jobs during our college and grad school years as well……no time for bitul zman with the goyim

    #1713190

    The little I know
    Participant

    The college of a few generations ago was focused on a curriculum that involved philosophies that were incompatible with the life of a Torah Jew. It was an exception that participating in such programs was without damage. This trend died out, and the college environment was more focused on the specific educational programs that the student attended. However, there was a different risk that became quite strong. The lifestyles of college students involved relationships that are illicit for us, and tznius dipped to new lows. The environment had its toxicities. Those who darshened about college wasted their time, because they addressed dangers that no longer existed, and bochurim and girls heard these empty speeches about obsolete issues. The darshanim failed to be up to date and focus on those issues that were the real risks.

    There were several large, mainstream yeshivos that allowed bochurim to go to college, and these yeshivos required specific approval of which college and specific to the bochur. Often permission was not granted. The bochur needed to maintain regular sedorim by day, and only allowed to attend night classes. This had the added advantage of lowering the risk of sharing classes with the riff raff that contained the bulk of the non-tznius dress and activity. At least the philosophy matter was recognized as obsolete.

    Today’s college campuses have reverted back to pushing ideologies on the students. The average campus is a cesspool of activism for political correctness, gender fluidity, absence of tznius, and legitimizing things that initially sound praiseworthy but are actually decrepit. Fortunately, there are a few college environments that are safer for our young people, but just a few. Some of the higher levels of academia, where only highly motivated students with a track record of performance make it in, are actually a bit lower risk.

    I am not afraid of apikorsus in college today. But the sheer level of stupidity in completely corrupt value systems is alarming, and this is coupled with the tznius issue. One needs to know the risks and how they would affect a specific bochur or girl before giving the approval to attend college today. There is no general answer, not a heter, not an issur.

    #1713273

    ZSK
    Participant

    It absolutely depends on the person, their education, etc.

    I went to a local secular college so as to avoid putting my parents in debt going to YU (then again YU didn’t offer my major, so it was just as well). I came out just as religious as when I went in, probably more so even. I lived at home and balanced work, a part-time to full-time job, a short evening seder and hobbies/free time. I also made it to shul 3x a day, 7 days a week. But this was some 15-20 years ago, when the current wave lunacy on college campuses was just beginning and could be called out for what it was.

    In the current environment, I certainly would not send my kids to any college in the US, and not because of “pritzus” and it being “assur to fraternize with non-Jews”. The indoctrination and dumbing down of education is worse in my opinion and by themselves a reason to avoid it.

    As a side point, those who will go OTD in college were likely already halfway there and looking for a way out.

    #1713301

    akuperma
    Participant

    Children rarely go to college as by they time they complete the necessary courses they are already adults.
    Perhaps the question is on how to advise young adults considering going a secular university?

    #1713361

    Joseph
    Participant

    “As a side point, those who will go OTD in college were likely already halfway there and looking for a way out.”

    That’s no reason to give them the final push to go OTD, by permitting or not hugely discouraging secular college.

    #1713458

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Today’s college campuses have reverted back to pushing ideologies on the students. The average campus is a cesspool of activism for political correctness, gender fluidity, absence of tznius, and legitimizing things that initially sound praiseworthy but are actually decrepit.

    This is the USA.
    There’s other countries too you know where this isn’t as big as an issue.
    IMHO from what I see on the news the anti-Israel and anti semitism sounds like a big scary issue; forget everything else. Is it physically safe for me as an american-israeli jew to step foot on a college campus?

    #1713539

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I went to a secular college, there is nothing wrong with it. I would recommend however going as a commuter rather than dorming. Basically when you commute, you go in the morning from home and then go home after your last class. Its not the same as a college where people dorm and have alot of free time. Most people at commuter schools tend to be busier and not have time for other things

    #1713606

    jdb
    Participant

    Depends.

    A famous, well respected Mashgiach in a major NY-area yeshiva went to college at his parents insistence. When he asked his Rebbe, one of the gedolem, which college he should attend, out of the two options, his Rebbe recommended a Catholic university. He asked him Rebbe, “But there is a huge cruifix on the wall of the lecture halls!” His Rebbe answered “Are you afraid he will jump off the wall and hurt you? In this environment, if you spend the rest of your time in yeshiva, you won’t feel pressured to fit in.”

    There is nothing that is black and white in life.

    #1713707

    Joseph
    Participant

    Look, Rav Moshe, Rav Aharon and numerous additional Gedolei Yisroel were vocally and strongly opposed.

    And all we can get are so-called supposedly anonymous rabbis in support, standing against Rav Moshe and Rav Aharon?!

    #1713666

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    You mean like Rav Hutner ZT”L?

    #1713750

    Joseph
    Participant

    Yseribus: Chaim Berlin stopped allowing bochorim to go to college, as universities degenerated.

    It was Rav Aharon who convinced Rav Hutner not to open a Jewish college.

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