April 10, 2019 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #1713026
How do you feel about Jewish students going to secular colleges? Where would you send your child?April 10, 2019 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1713088
Depends how religious the person is.
Depends what type the college is.
Depends on how necessary college is.
Depends on the the options.
Depends on how often there is classes and for how many years.
Depends on how strong the person is.
Depends on what the person’s rav says.April 10, 2019 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1713094
My children have gone to both. Are you asking if everyone should go to Yeshiva University?April 10, 2019 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1713131
I went to Brooklyn College but skipped the subo, the student center which is unecessary for a degree. I also, went to NYU Couranrt Institute.April 10, 2019 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1713143
Has anyone discussed r”l the number of victims who freid out in college or if didn’t all the way behind frei lost a good deal of theie Yiddishkeit?
Probably not because when it happens these victims either don’t even realize it or simply deny it.April 10, 2019 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1713144
Many davka go to a secular college then to a yeshiva University type placeApril 10, 2019 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1713148
I think that although there are some exceptions, only adults should attend college.April 10, 2019 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1713150
Two of my grandparents went to secular college
My parents went to secular college
All of them lived at home and went by subway
My siblings and I all went to secular universities and graduate schools
My children all went to secular university and law schools
We all lived with relatives in undergraduate school and in apartments while in graduate school, never in a dorm
All of my generation and my children attended seminary or Yeshiva for a year or two after high school and before university.
All of these people remained frum after secular college/university.graduate school
All of us held jobs during our college and grad school years as well……no time for bitul zman with the goyimApril 11, 2019 12:19 am at 12:19 am #1713190
The little I knowParticipant
The college of a few generations ago was focused on a curriculum that involved philosophies that were incompatible with the life of a Torah Jew. It was an exception that participating in such programs was without damage. This trend died out, and the college environment was more focused on the specific educational programs that the student attended. However, there was a different risk that became quite strong. The lifestyles of college students involved relationships that are illicit for us, and tznius dipped to new lows. The environment had its toxicities. Those who darshened about college wasted their time, because they addressed dangers that no longer existed, and bochurim and girls heard these empty speeches about obsolete issues. The darshanim failed to be up to date and focus on those issues that were the real risks.
There were several large, mainstream yeshivos that allowed bochurim to go to college, and these yeshivos required specific approval of which college and specific to the bochur. Often permission was not granted. The bochur needed to maintain regular sedorim by day, and only allowed to attend night classes. This had the added advantage of lowering the risk of sharing classes with the riff raff that contained the bulk of the non-tznius dress and activity. At least the philosophy matter was recognized as obsolete.
Today’s college campuses have reverted back to pushing ideologies on the students. The average campus is a cesspool of activism for political correctness, gender fluidity, absence of tznius, and legitimizing things that initially sound praiseworthy but are actually decrepit. Fortunately, there are a few college environments that are safer for our young people, but just a few. Some of the higher levels of academia, where only highly motivated students with a track record of performance make it in, are actually a bit lower risk.
I am not afraid of apikorsus in college today. But the sheer level of stupidity in completely corrupt value systems is alarming, and this is coupled with the tznius issue. One needs to know the risks and how they would affect a specific bochur or girl before giving the approval to attend college today. There is no general answer, not a heter, not an issur.April 11, 2019 7:07 am at 7:07 am #1713273
It absolutely depends on the person, their education, etc.
I went to a local secular college so as to avoid putting my parents in debt going to YU (then again YU didn’t offer my major, so it was just as well). I came out just as religious as when I went in, probably more so even. I lived at home and balanced work, a part-time to full-time job, a short evening seder and hobbies/free time. I also made it to shul 3x a day, 7 days a week. But this was some 15-20 years ago, when the current wave lunacy on college campuses was just beginning and could be called out for what it was.
In the current environment, I certainly would not send my kids to any college in the US, and not because of “pritzus” and it being “assur to fraternize with non-Jews”. The indoctrination and dumbing down of education is worse in my opinion and by themselves a reason to avoid it.
As a side point, those who will go OTD in college were likely already halfway there and looking for a way out.April 11, 2019 7:08 am at 7:08 am #1713301
Children rarely go to college as by they time they complete the necessary courses they are already adults.
Perhaps the question is on how to advise young adults considering going a secular university?April 11, 2019 9:40 am at 9:40 am #1713361
“As a side point, those who will go OTD in college were likely already halfway there and looking for a way out.”
That’s no reason to give them the final push to go OTD, by permitting or not hugely discouraging secular college.April 11, 2019 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1713458
Today’s college campuses have reverted back to pushing ideologies on the students. The average campus is a cesspool of activism for political correctness, gender fluidity, absence of tznius, and legitimizing things that initially sound praiseworthy but are actually decrepit.
This is the USA.
There’s other countries too you know where this isn’t as big as an issue.
IMHO from what I see on the news the anti-Israel and anti semitism sounds like a big scary issue; forget everything else. Is it physically safe for me as an american-israeli jew to step foot on a college campus?April 11, 2019 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #1713539
I went to a secular college, there is nothing wrong with it. I would recommend however going as a commuter rather than dorming. Basically when you commute, you go in the morning from home and then go home after your last class. Its not the same as a college where people dorm and have alot of free time. Most people at commuter schools tend to be busier and not have time for other thingsApril 11, 2019 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1713606
A famous, well respected Mashgiach in a major NY-area yeshiva went to college at his parents insistence. When he asked his Rebbe, one of the gedolem, which college he should attend, out of the two options, his Rebbe recommended a Catholic university. He asked him Rebbe, “But there is a huge cruifix on the wall of the lecture halls!” His Rebbe answered “Are you afraid he will jump off the wall and hurt you? In this environment, if you spend the rest of your time in yeshiva, you won’t feel pressured to fit in.”
There is nothing that is black and white in life.April 11, 2019 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1713707
Look, Rav Moshe, Rav Aharon and numerous additional Gedolei Yisroel were vocally and strongly opposed.
And all we can get are so-called supposedly anonymous rabbis in support, standing against Rav Moshe and Rav Aharon?!April 11, 2019 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1713666
You mean like Rav Hutner ZT”L?April 12, 2019 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1713750
Yseribus: Chaim Berlin stopped allowing bochorim to go to college, as universities degenerated.
It was Rav Aharon who convinced Rav Hutner not to open a Jewish college.
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