July 31, 2011 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #598323mra01385Participant
I know that many Ashkenazim dont wanna marry Sephardim-especially Syrians. I was wondering why is that? Is it just because of the different hashkafos, or is it also because they have a different mentality and mindset then Ashkenazim?July 31, 2011 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #792543HachamMember
Do many Sephardim want to marry Ashkenazim?July 31, 2011 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #792544
I’m sephardi and I always wondered the same thing. When someone hears that an ashkenaz married a sephardi, many act as though something was wrong with the ashkenaz person who therefore had to marry a sephardi.
But I do think that I have a different mentality than most Ashkenazim. However, I went to regular Ashkenaz school so I do plan on marrying someone who’s half and half cuz a full sephardi will have a different mindset than me even though I have a different mindset than a regular Ashkenaz because of my family background.July 31, 2011 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #792545mra01385Participant
What exactly is the mindset and mentality of a sephardi that is different than an ashkenazi?July 31, 2011 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #792546
I am an ashkenazi and I love all Jew, including and especailly sefardim.
You should feel very proud!
Baba Salli was a sefardi and was a very holy person.
Many of the kadmonim were, sefardim.
My daughter would not mind marrying a sefardi.
I know a well known family in lakewood, who I tried to red to an ashkenasi, they would not hear of it.
I told them, that the boy and the family are regular American mentality just like them.
They still would not hear of it.
Oh well, their loss.
Bear in mind:
The 15th day of Av, is a happy day because that was the day that the shevatim were permitted to intermarry!July 31, 2011 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #792547
The halachos of sephardim are also very different…
Sephardim can get haircuts during the 3 weeks – the prohibition of cutting hair and listening to music only starts after Shabbat Hazon (just to give an example of 1 halachic difference).
I went to school with Ashkenazim and we had many disagreements that came up in the class where I just decided to keep my thoughts to myself cuz I knew the teacher would think I’m weird. They (Ashkenazim) were the majority and I didn’t feel the need to voice my opinion.
Any other Sephardim on here to help bring out my thoughts?July 31, 2011 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #792548
Those griping why often Sefardim wont marry Ashkenazim or vice versa — would you marry a Satmar Chosid? Would you marry a Kippa Sruga? Would you marry a Bukharian Jew? Are you telling me you would equally go out with all three of the aforementioned types of frum Jews?July 31, 2011 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #792549
Hi, im sefaradic – syrian acctually. i was the only sefardic girl in seminary and i hav 2 say i got on very well with the ashkenazim. some of them became my closest friends. if situations were different i would hav no problem marrying an ashkenaz guy, exept that the minhagim are different. being that it is the wife who must change and follow her husband i find it a little difficult. but to be honest i dont see that much of a difference between us. so we speek a little different, eat different food, pray with a different nusach… but r we not all serving Hashem? we are more machmir in sertain areas and ashkenazim are more machmir in others. so what?! we r all Jewish and we all serve Hashem – that is the main point.
p.s. anyone here heared the song yalili on youtube?July 31, 2011 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #792550
there is no comparison.
There is not much of a difference between the mentality of a mainstream american sefardi then that of an ashkenazi.July 31, 2011 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #792551i love coffeParticipant
I went to a school where half my class were Ashkenazim and half my class Sephardim. The school itself was a big mix of Sephardim and Ashkenazim. Every class had atleast 4 students that were Sephardim and the class was no bigger than 9-15 students (it was a fairly small school).
So, during halacha class the Rebbi was Ashkenaz and therefore taught us Ashkenaz halachot. For me I thought it was a waste of time being in class since most of the halachot didnt pertain to me. Whenever he would teach us something I would get very annoyed because it was either something something that I dont do, or it would be a topic very intricate and my whole class were hearing of all kinds of “new” halachot and I would never be sure if it pertained to me or to the rest of the class. The teacher made no effort to mention that a certain halacha was only for Ashkenaz. I would always try to “stir the pot” and ask “so what about sephardim, do we also do this”, (even though I knew we didnt). The Sephardim in the class were either clueless or werent even paying attention to the class since they didnt care.
But, I did care. I was going to school because I wanted to learn. Yet, I dont think I gained much from that class. It was VERY frustrating and I would always have to go home do all of my homework from school (which was plenty) and then late at night take out the halacha book and start learning. And then dont get me started with testing… When we had a test and one of the questions would be “Are we alowed to do xyz?” I would write “no”, even though I knew that for Ashkenazim it was “yes”. And when I got my test paper back I would always get a wrong mark.July 31, 2011 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #792552
In Montreal the Sephardim and ashkanaz population are very close, at least in MO circles…we send our kids to the same schools, eat at each others restaurants, and often daven at the same shuls. It is very common for ashkanaz and Sephardim to marry each other… I guess Shlishi doesnt agree…July 31, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #792553
Well the sephardim and ashkenazim in my area have nothing to do with each other.. we don’t play with them or anything…It’s not that we hate each other chas vishalom. If we see our neighbor coming outside when we’re outside, we say hello – but that’s where it ends.July 31, 2011 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #792554
IUseBrains: So while you admit it is okay to not want to marry a Satmer Chosid, MO or Bukharian Jew, you say that’s only because “there is not much of a difference between the mentality of a mainstream american”. Yet you do not complain that a totally Americanized MO/YU wouldn’t marry a totally Americanized Litvish/Lakewooder. Both are totally American. Ahhh. There is a difference of hashkafah and minhagim! Yes, there is even a bigger difference in minhagim between Sefardim and Ashkenazim, then between an MO and Litvak. You are okay with not wanting to marry someone because of “a difference in mentality” regarding nationality etc., but you are not okay with not wanting to marry someone because of “a differene in mentality” regarding minhagim or hashkafa? That is a much more important that nationality/mentalities.July 31, 2011 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #792555shloime060Member
Back to the main topic;
I will leave it at that, although there is much more to talk about. The main thing is, we have to be proud of the SEPHARADIC Descendent, KLAL YISROEL had a lot of GEDOLIM which we depend on today and will forever.July 31, 2011 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #792556Moshe KohnMember
A very dear Syrian friend once told us very clearly that under no circumstances would people from his kehillah entertain a shidduch with any other Sephardic group, and certainly not with the Ashkenazim.
And this was a really Yeshivish guy who fit in 100% with all of his Askenazi friends.July 31, 2011 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #792557
Thumbs up shloime060!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂July 31, 2011 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #792558mazal77Participant
We are syrian, and if someone suggests an ashkenaz shidduch, as long as the person is jewish and has fine middot, we have no qualms about that, when the time comes. And I know many prominet syrian Rabbonim in the community whose own families have intermarried with ashkenazim. So Moshe Kohn, maybe this syrian friend has his own mindset, but it is rare.July 31, 2011 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #792559
There are enough people out there that hate Jews, the last thing kal yisroel needs is prejudice from within… I like Dafina as much I like Cholent 😉August 1, 2011 4:02 am at 4:02 am #792560brotherofursParticipant
i’m sephardic and syrian..i’m wondering if i know any of you cuz it narrows down the search a lil 🙂
i know that when my brother wanted to marry an ashkanazie girl my parents did not really like it..they wannted to know the family well, (they usually can find a connection to Any syrian family) and they wanted the girl to be accustomed to the minhagim, idk or maybe it was just cause she was different than us, way of talking , diffenret type of upbringing,
i’m not saying they were right, this is just how thy felt i think. (i also didn’t hear much about it cuz i was a little young).. but they for sure rather someone syrian , from the same community..August 1, 2011 4:07 am at 4:07 am #792561brotherofursParticipant
oh i also heard an opinion from someone that:
Ashkanazim usually live far away from their parents,[like in different states] many times and this is common .. when Syrians usually live a block away from their parents and mostly everyone lives in the same 10 block range and u see your extended family ALL the time, every Shabbat and their relationship is very close b”H.
*could be that my parnts did not want my brother to move away to another , or city, which can most likely happen in the Ashkanaz worldAugust 1, 2011 4:14 am at 4:14 am #792562ovadiayosefrocksParticipant
You should just know pepole how much loss pepole had bc they didnt want to marry a sefardi and visa versa.
Maran Rav ovadia Yosef hates these fights he saids that mesiach isnt coming bc of all the neglection toward sefardimAugust 1, 2011 6:53 am at 6:53 am #792563HaKatanParticipant
I have a number of good friends, some Ashkenaz and some Sefard, and there are plenty of “intermarriages” between the two groups.
But the comparison to MO or chassidus is a faulty one. An Ashkenaz person and a Sefard person who went through the same or similar schools are likely at a similar level of observance and hashkafa (every individual is different, of course, though) so you would expect shidduchim between those 2 groups would make sense. But to compare that to an MO or Chassidic person who went to very different schools and/or has very different hashkafos, is ridiculous as one would need to adopt a very different STANDARD of observance rather than adapt to slight differences in the SAME LEVEL of observance.August 1, 2011 11:54 am at 11:54 am #792564minyan galMember
First of all, in biblical times there were no divisions – everybody was likely Sephardic. Secondly, we are all Jews. A topic like this is divisive. A thread that would EXPLAIN the differences in minhagim – without editorials – would be interesting and informative. So far, this thread seems to me to just be editorializing. Why don’t we continue this thread teaching each other the differences? There is a website called The Daily Halacha. Rabbi Mansour who runs the site is Sephardic. With each topic he selects, he gives both the Ashkenaz and Sephardic views (with references) – which means that you learn the different minhagim, and often, the reasons for the differences .August 1, 2011 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #792565
The difference in standard and method of observance between an average Ashkenaz and an average Sefard is greater than the difference in standard and method observance between an average Lakewood Litvak and an average Williamsburg Chosid. Yet no one is complaining that the Lakewooders don’t agree to date or marry the Williamsburgers or vice versa — even though they both are Ashkenazic.August 1, 2011 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #792566
If one group doesn’t one to marry members of the other group because they prefer to maintain their minhagim or because they want to know the family more closely or because they think that by staying within the same tradition will make it easier for the couple to be happy together, that’s all fine.
However, I think that in many cases the main issue is that one group looks at the other as second-class jews and therefore don’t want their children to marry members of the “lower” group.
Unfortunately, this division seems to be stronger in EY and NY.August 1, 2011 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #792567
kako: That’s absolutely untrue and in fact loshon hora on Klal Yisroel. There is no reason anyone looks down at other frum yidden because they are Ashkenazim or Sefardim. The only ones guilty of this are the chilonim in EY who treat the Sefardim like Jim Crow era blacks. The Torah Yidden treat them as their brothers.August 1, 2011 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #792568mewhoParticipant
i would think that pesach might be difficult.August 1, 2011 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #792569
… and it’s not just about marriage. It’s also about not letting perfectly frum kids from one group entering schools/yeshivas run by the other gorup, etc.
In my opinion, this is a big issue in frum circles and it’s causing lots of tzoros.August 1, 2011 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #792570
kako: Satmar takes ALL children into their Yeshivos. And if you can’t afford they’ll reduce or even eliminate tuition payments.
In the name of the achdus you are promoting, are you ready to send your children to Yeshiva there (or learn there yourself)? And will you marry a Satmar and have your children consider Satmar shidduchim — achudus for Klal Yisroel.August 1, 2011 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #792571
THERE ARE PLENTY OF SFARDISHE LITVAKS!!!August 1, 2011 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #792572
Exactly. And Sfardishe Chasidim too.August 1, 2011 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #792573
SO THEN YOUR POINT IS DISPROVED!August 1, 2011 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #792574
Shlishi: I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong. Perhaps you belong to the group that is not being discriminated and therefore you don’t feel it. But I do feel it and it’s not just me. I have heard way too many stories already. A friend of mine was even told to change his lastname in order to have a better chance of his kids being accepted into a yeshiva. And this advice was given by an employee of the yeshivas.
You can look the other way and pretend there is no problem, but unfortunately that’s not the reality.
And by the way, am NOT talking loshon hora on Klal Yisroel as you said. I did NOT say everybody acts like this. I did NOT say that most people act like this. I did NOT even mention who the 2 groups are or which group discriminate against which group. And this is letoeles because by raising the issue I am trying to make people understand that there is a problem and that we need to find ways to fix it.
I am mochel you.August 1, 2011 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #792575ef613Member
I am syrian and i have to disagree with the authors opinion. To be honest, we are the ones that have the edict on our shuls which prohibit marrying anyone of questionable lineage. The majority of the reason there are not many intermarriages between syrians and ashkenaz is because the demands that WE have on knowing the lineage. Does that mean if we didnt have the edict everything owuld be fine and dandy ? Surely not, however, because we have it, it greatly reduced the probability.August 1, 2011 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #792576
Attention all sfardim!!
Dont worry, Hashem is on your side!August 1, 2011 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #792577StamperMember
How do you know which side Hashem is on? And who delineated the sides anyways? There are no sides.August 1, 2011 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #792578littleeemaParticipant
ONLY the chilonim discriminate against Sefaradim? What about Emanuel? I just came back to Israel and there were Ashkenazim and Sefaradim on the flight. One of the ashkenazim ran around the plane trying to find ten ashkenazim for a minyan. When my husband asked him why, he said “I NEVER daven with —(and he used a deragatory word for Sefaradim).”
Death of gedolim? Death of an innocent child? Fires? Illnesses? What is it going to take for people to realize this is all shtuyot!
Yehi ratzon shenizke lirot benechamat tzion veyerushalayim.August 1, 2011 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #792579
stamper, im sefardic and i agree with u 1000%!!!
ef613, u r correct in ur statement, however once all questions of lineage are answered there is usually no problem. (this is only refering to the edict that u mentioned…)August 1, 2011 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #792580EnglishmanMember
The Gedolim, including Rav Elyashev and Rav Ovadia Yosef and many many others, all said the Beis Yaakov and the heroic parents who went to jail were absolutely correct and the accusations of discrimination and action of the supreme court, said the gedolim, were lies. B”H the gedolim and the beis yaakov prevailed.August 1, 2011 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #792581
I would like to clarify that the edict mentioned above by ef613 only applies to Syrian communities. Not all Sephardim are Syrians. It is my understanding that most Sephardim in EY are not Syrians.August 1, 2011 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #792582
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