Tagged: bagel-hating heathens
September 4, 2015 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #616304
What do you think a Bris Seuda should look like? Should it be considered a Seudas Mitzva, and treated as such? Or not?
I recently attended two separate bris celebrations, that, sorry to say, really bothered me.
At the first bris seuda, the men were served a fleishig meal, while the women were served pareve food. That struck me as strange…isn’t it a seudas mitzva for the women as well?
(The women were served salmon, so money was clearly not an issue here…)
At the second bris seuda, the “seuda” consisted of bagels, lox, egg and tuna spreads, and similar foods.
The Baal Simcha did take into consideration the sensibilites of certain people (like me…) and offered cold cut sandwiches as well.
The Baal Simcha also took care to cater to those who appreciate milichigs in the morning…and offered coffee (with milk!) and pastries to those interested. I was sitting and eating a cold cut sandwich while the woman seated near me was enjoying a coffee.
Comment, anyone? Am I being overly sensitive? Or were any of the above Baal Simchos acting foolishly?September 4, 2015 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #1125737
The saying mountain out of a mole hill comes to mind.September 4, 2015 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1125738
Of course it is a seudas mitzvah and should be treated as such. The two issues are that people don’t like to eat fleishigs in the morning (perhaps women more so than men?) and that finances are also a consideration.
I haven’t seen a seudah with both milchigs and fleishigs (at least not intentionally), and think it’s a very bad idea.September 4, 2015 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1125739
oot for lifeParticipant
Maybe I’m missing something here. I get why you’re upset about case 1.
Case 2, he made sure to have special food for you. And you’re upset because someone else put milk in their coffee. I don’t understand.September 4, 2015 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #1125740
chasidish people like to serve a fleishig bris & sometimes just put a fleishig meat platter only on the head table for the baal simcha.
a bris is supposed to be first thing in the morning & that is not a time for meat so the going menu for a bris is bagels & lox etc….September 4, 2015 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #1125741
Dair and cold cuts sandwiches at the same table is forbidden and even if it would be permitted it sounds like a bad idea, unless one hires waiters whom he can trust absolutely.September 4, 2015 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #1125742
Scared, I’ve never seen a morning dairy bris that wasn’t buffet style. All the waiters do if there are any is serve coffeeSeptember 4, 2015 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1125743
And set everything up.September 4, 2015 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #1125744
They wouldn’t be putting an individuals cold cuts on the buffet.September 4, 2015 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1125745
Mashiach, eating meat in the morning is only considered taboo by us Jews. All over the rest of civilized society it is done daily without thinking.September 4, 2015 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #1125746
When I made a bris, I wanted cold cuts and my wife wanted salmon.
I told her I would give in, and then I just told the caterer to serve salmon to the women and cold cuts to the men.
I hope she’s not reading this thread.September 4, 2015 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #1125747
I am, but I figured it out when we got home and you poured soy milk into your coffee.September 4, 2015 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #1125748
Ephraim, I don’t think meat breakfasts are common in non-Jewish America.September 5, 2015 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #1125749
Joseph: On the contrary, sausages, bacon, etc. are very common for goyim. My wife was the Director of Dietary services for a Kosher assisted living facility that was purchased by a company with treif locations. They gave her a sample menu that had meat stuff on the breakfast menu every day.September 5, 2015 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1125750
Ephraim, I don’t think meat breakfasts are common in non-Jewish America.
Bacon, scrapple, ham, headcheese, sausage . . . meat breakfasts are certainly common in non-Jewish America.September 6, 2015 1:03 am at 1:03 am #1125751
Joseph, bacon and eggs is a common breakfast item, as is bacon by itselfSeptember 6, 2015 2:13 am at 2:13 am #1125752
Unclear how everyone in the CR is an expert on what non-Jews eat for breakfast.September 6, 2015 3:27 am at 3:27 am #1125753
I grew up eating Fleishcige breakfasts, such as salami and eggs or corned beef hash and eggs. I drink my coffee black so it never made a difference to be Fleischige so early in the day.
In fact after Yeshiva and while in Law School, as a single adult I had a Fleischige apartment, no milchige keilim at all.
With the advent of so many parve milk substitutes we had no problem making a fleischige bris for our son 25 years ago.
My grandsons have had pareve brisim (fish, eggs, veg) as it was not the custom of my sons-in law (or theor families) to eat fleischiges in the morning, and one of the shuls only permits milchiges or pareve in their kitchenSeptember 6, 2015 4:07 am at 4:07 am #1125754
standard practice in most communities has been to make a milchig bris, for reasons mentioned above. This has been justified in the past by no less than the Maharm Shick (YD 366).
Dunkin Donuts, Dennys etc have menus with clear meat options readily availble online. I watch coworkers getting breakfats daily and they do in fact have fleihing breakfast routinely.September 6, 2015 4:19 am at 4:19 am #1125755
FWIW, bacon isn’t fleishig.September 6, 2015 4:21 am at 4:21 am #1125756
Dunkin Donuts, Dennys etc have menus with clear meat options readily availble online. I watch coworkers getting breakfats daily and they do in fact have fleihing breakfast routinely.
Why are you so familiar with the menu at Denny’s?
Why are you stalking your coworkers while they eat breakfast? I haven’t the faintest idea what my coworkers eat for breakfast.September 6, 2015 4:33 am at 4:33 am #1125757
Bacon might be “meat”, but it’s nowhere near as heavy as any meat we have. Serve lamb bacon at a Bris. It won’t be nearly as awkward as our meat.September 6, 2015 7:02 am at 7:02 am #1125758
FWIW, bacon isn’t fleishig.
Technically, chicken isn’t fleishig either. What’s your point?
Why are you stalking your coworkers while they eat breakfast? I haven’t the faintest idea what my coworkers eat for breakfast.
Because in the old country many of my coworkers would bring their breakfast to work and eat at their desks.September 6, 2015 9:30 am at 9:30 am #1125759
both seudas sounded fine,
the first, men had flaish, women had salmon which is also very nice, maybe the wife said that ladies do not want fleish .
bagels and lox is also very nice. most pple enjoy it very much at a bris seuda, you are not fleishik, you stay light and you can have ur coffee.
maybe the waiters did not know at the table was someone eating meat, so they served her milk in her coffee.
anyways, be happy you were able to partake in both simchas.September 6, 2015 11:20 am at 11:20 am #1125760
I prefer a porterhouse at 7 am myself.September 6, 2015 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #1125761
And now Sam eats bacon.September 6, 2015 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #1125762
FWIW, bacon isn’t fleishig.
Technically, chicken isn’t fleishig either. What’s your point?
Chicken is assur mid’rabbonon with milk, and, mid’rabbonon it is assur go have milk within six hours (according to most common minhag) of chicken. It is “technically” fleishig.
Chazzer is assur, but basar b’chalav is not a factor, so it is not “fleishig” in the way we use the term.
Say Sam made a bris and served what popa thought was lamb bacon but then he found out it was chazzer bacon. When we got home, I could serve him his coffee with cow’s milk, no need for soy milk.September 6, 2015 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #1125763
“Why are you so familiar with the menu at Denny’s?”
google out of curiosity. no need to be “so familiar” A quick glanc at the menu reveals more meat options than non-meat options
“Why are you stalking your coworkers while they eat breakfast?”
No stalking, I eat with them. (Though I have cold cereal)
“so it is not “fleishig” in the way we use the term.”
Here is Joseph’s comment “Ephraim, I don’t think meat breakfasts are common in non-Jewish America.”
It is “fleishig” in the way the term is being used in this threadSeptember 6, 2015 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #1125764
Happy Go Lucky!!Participant
All kidding aside (who would think we came to this day, where you heard this from me!!), I’ve heard of a special inyan to have fleishigs (at least some serving) at a bris. It is a segulah to instill Yiras Shamayim in the child just brought into the fold of Klal Yisroel.
I could understand it very well myself (not that it needs my understanding at all). We make a seudas mitzvah, a festive meal to celebrate our performing mitzvos. That showing our willingness, eagerness, our enthusiasm at doing HaShem’s commandments. It expresses our joy of the opportunity to do His bidding. So we mark the occasion with an important seudah. Something BIG and special, to make it an event, to show its importance in our lives.
A mere snacking or munching on some crackers won’t do. Neither would a perfunctory milchig thing. The real “thing” is a real seudah with fleishigs.
When we show our children (and ourself) what’s really important in life, the right attitudes, the right hashkafos in life – there’s hope.September 6, 2015 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #1125765
if it is a halachik requirement to have meat, than that’s the answer. to say that it isn’t a real meal or special without meat is somewhat subjective. I don’t really consider cold cuts, no matter how nicely they are set out on the tray, to be special. I have often wondered how people can serve it for shabbos lunch. having different types of bagels, salads, lox cheeses, danishes is definitely special, not too many people have something close to that for their breakfast on a typical day.September 6, 2015 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1125766
PBA: Why are you surprised? If I think that you can’t be Yotzei Maror with horseradish then Kal V’chomer I think it’s Muttar to eat bacon.September 6, 2015 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #1125767
Ubiquitin, the term is being used in more than one way in this thread e.g. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/seuda-at-a-bris#post-581367.September 6, 2015 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #1125768
Happy Go Lucky!!Participant
You’re right, Syag, I haven’t looked it up in Halachah, I’m just relating what I heard (again: heard) mentioned in Seforim regarding the Segulah, or Inyan to have meat.
My reasoning, again it’s just my own, and it is of course subjective. And I too do not think much of cold cuts etc. other than a nosh. What I was trying to say was that generally an important seuda would consist of fleishig. Think of a wedding, Bar Mitzvah etc. Of course you could get around making it pareve (never heard of a milchige chasuna), and serving such delicacies as you’ve mentioned definitely makes it more special, to me at least, making it fleishig (real stuff) puts an especial “mark”. A dagash. You don’t grab a chickale and bite while on the run, no, one must sit down (next to friends) with knife, fork, napkin, a set table etc. To me that’s a Matzav.
Again, it’s my own feelings.September 6, 2015 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #1125769
I was once at a wedding with dairy food. It felt weird, but honestly the food was better than any other wedding I’ve ever been to.September 6, 2015 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #1125770
Wonder no more! You answered your own question
“I have often wondered how people can serve it [coldcuts] for shabbos lunch.”
” to say that it isn’t a real meal or special without meat is somewhat subjective”September 6, 2015 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1125771
ubiquitin – so true. but still…they are so…gross.
in all seriousness, i didn’t mean that as a judgement as in “they shouldn’t be serving them” just wondered why anyone would WANT to.September 6, 2015 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #1125772
Meat is more expensive than no meat. People aren’t made of money. (And if they were, spending it would be giving away the stuff they’re made of, which would destroy their essence and would really be a lot worse than not being made of money.)September 6, 2015 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #1125773
Syog, peope servebcold cuts on Shabbos summer lunches if they don’t want to keep the oven on if its a very hot daySeptember 6, 2015 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #1125774
i get it that some people serve them because they like them, i was just saying that i didn’t know why they liked them.
RebYidd – the expense part is another great point. all we need is to start getting out of control at our brisim. (no, i don’t mean serving cold cuts is out of control)September 6, 2015 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #1125775
I think serving any kind of cuts at a bris sueda is in bad taste.September 6, 2015 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #1125776
goq youre a real crack up!September 7, 2015 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1125777
I remember once in yeshiva there was a fleishig seudas bris served for breakfast. As luck would have it, that day the health department also came and it didnt look good for the yeshiva not to be serving milk for breakfast. After consulting with the yeshivas posek, they brought out containers of milk with large signs in yiddish reminding everyone not to drink any and that they were only bringing out the milk because the inspectors were there. I dont recall another fleishig seudas bris ever beingserved in the yeshiva dining room if it was held in the morning.September 7, 2015 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #1125778
Syog, peope servebcold cuts on Shabbos summer lunches if they don’t want to keep the oven on if its a very hot day
If they’re tzedukim.September 7, 2015 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #1125780
Or if they’re tzedukim.
FTFYSeptember 8, 2015 12:08 am at 12:08 am #1125781
TY Syag i try.September 10, 2015 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #1125782
There’s a very strange custom that people pack up food at a bris to take home.September 16, 2015 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1125783
Scared driver delight – yes, that is indeed a strange custom. What do you think of that?September 16, 2015 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #1125784
That it’s strange.September 16, 2015 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #1125785
What’s strange? It’s a mitzvah to eat food from a bris. So your taking the food to share with others, who weren’t at the bris, to partake in the mitzvah. (And, also, the mitzvah of avoiding baal tashchis of so much extra food being discarded.)September 16, 2015 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #1125786
There is definitely an Inyan to serve Fleishigs l’Chatchilah at any Se’udas Mitzvah, including a Bris. As a matter of fact, the overwhelming majority of Brisim here in Eretz Yisrael are catered Fleishig affairs, usually quite early in the morning. For reasons mentioned already, in CHU”L many people prefer Milchigs. This may be justified in Poskim, but it is definitely not the Pashtus.
Regarding the Milchigs and Fleishigs together – as many have mentioned, very problematic Halachically, unless there is a Heker between those eating one gender and those eating the other.
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