November 20, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #606235Pro Israel and OrthodoxMember
I cant find anywhere to vent my frustration so I will do it here. Netanyu finally has got some gall and bombed Hamas very heavily yet they still have not been able to stop the rockets from coming into Israel. By making a truce now and bringing EGYPT as the ones to enforce the truce they are opening up a huge front to bring in longer range missles and restock on all the missles they have shot. Why has the government not learned from their past mistakes??November 20, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #908595kingdavidParticipant
Whatever Israel does here , they lose.
For every so called Hamas leader they kill , 10 new leaders arise.
Hamas has full backing from Iran and the whole Muslim world, and ALL other countries at that!
The world hates us and they always will.November 20, 2012 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #908596akupermaParticipant
The Israeli goal is to stop the random rocket attacks. Occupying Gaza would work, but would claim many Jewish lives. Continuing to trade rockets doesn’t work for several reasons (cost – Israeli rockets are more expensive as well as more accurate; public opinion issues- since Israel has superior rockets they call far more Palestinians than the number of Israelis the Palestinians can kill with their inferior rockets). Getting to Egyptians to in effect reoccupy Gaza makes the Egyptians liable for any future rocket attacks, and only the Gazans, Egypt has a lot to lose in the event of war.November 20, 2012 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #908597apdsvysParticipant
Because Bibi has his brains where he sits! That’s why!November 20, 2012 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #908598welldressed007Participant
this is above our paygradeNovember 20, 2012 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #908599concerned.1Member
I agree how much more are we going to take. According to reports it was Netanyu who had agreed to give Gaza to the Arabs and look what happened. Hashem gave us Eretz Yisroel and we have got to protect itNovember 21, 2012 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #908600rabbiofberlinParticipant
Some of the posters are totally misinformed. Bibi actually voted against the gaza withdrawal-it was Sahron who engineered it. Secondly, how about waiting to see what transpires in tghe next few days? maybe Hamas will be crubed- for now, and that might be a victory. so, patience is a virtue we should all exercise.November 21, 2012 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #908601FerdParticipant
rabbiofberlin, maybe you need to get your head examined – see this video
Please correct yourself publicly.
Thanks.November 21, 2012 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #908602computer777Member
Rabbiofberline: One doesn’t wait for another tragety to strike. In this case, patience is not a virtue at all. Is Jewish blood cheap?November 21, 2012 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #908603yichusdikParticipant
I’m a pretty opinionated person, and I have my own feelings on what can be done to deal with Hamas. But I am not the Prime Minister of Israel, I don’t have to send thousands of young Jews into harm’s way, I don’t have to measure the aid of the US versus my deterrence, I don’t have to answer the anger of the resident of the south, but neither would I have to make a shiva call on the bereaved parents of dozens of fallen soldiers, chas veshalom, if I made the decision to go in (which I think eventually Bibi will have to make anyways).
I just daven that HKBH guides the PM to the right decision for this moment.November 21, 2012 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #9086042scentsParticipant
Dont know why you prefer war, war brings death, we have loved ones living there, I fear for their well being.November 21, 2012 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #908605mr.mustardParticipant
The cease fire just gives hamas time to get the rockets they need.
Hamas will not be satisfied until they hit Tel Aviv.
I sure hope Israel has a plan when that time comes.November 21, 2012 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #908606oomisParticipant
The “cease fire” was just announced as taking place at 9 PM (hmm…wonder why not earlier than that). I am sick that Egypt is involved, not to mention our good friend Hillary.November 21, 2012 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #908607HaLeiViParticipant
There is not much choice. They can’t insist on fighting when the Hamas will tell everyone that they really wanted to stop.
What is the goal with staying on to fight? They are trying to get the Hamas to realize that they have to stop shelling Israel. They are not going to re-annex Gaza.
Perhaps at one point there was a choice, but now it’s past that point. They missed many opportunities. When the first rocket was fired it was understood that Israel would do something drastic to them, but they didn’t. England’s devastation in WWII was being hit by rockets. However, by ignoring it they turned rocketing into a form of disobedience. Now, when they react to being shelled it has to come with explanations.
They probably had the moral standing to re-inhabit Gush Katif when the first rockets came. Now, that would be ‘undermining the peace’, ‘disproportionate’, ‘colonization’, and a host of other great titles bestowed upon us by those who perpetrated these very acts in a real way. In a big way.November 21, 2012 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #908608HealthParticipant
Pro Israel and Orthodox –
I believe they had no choice. They need the US and their money. If they say -ok we’ll have a cease fire and the arabs (Not Palestinians) in Gaza break it -they can finally go in and when the Antisemitic world – Russia, Iran, Turkey, Egypt start screaming the EU & US can shut them up and say they tried.
I’d only agree with you if they do the same thing as last time and allow some attacks until it escalates to where it is now.
No attacks period -No excuses!November 21, 2012 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #908609real-briskerMember
Health – +1November 22, 2012 4:20 am at 4:20 am #908610takahmamashParticipant
maybe Hamas will be crubed- for now, and that might be a victory. so, patience is a virtue we should all exercise.
Hamas is not crushed. I believe it took only 6 minutes or so after the “cease fire” took effect for the sirens to sound and rockets to fall in Israel.
Cease fire = Israel ceases while Hamas firesNovember 22, 2012 10:49 am at 10:49 am #908611cherrybimParticipant
This may have been a good opportunity for Israel to have the United States privately agree to a Pollard pardon.November 25, 2012 3:06 am at 3:06 am #908612zedMember
The OP states that the Israeli government has not learned from its past mistakes, but the OP does not tell us what he/she has learned from the Israeli government’s past mistakes. The OP does not state what Israel should now do to protect its citizens and its interests.
Here is what I have learned:(a) The world does not strenuously object to Arabs’ lobbing rockets into Israel if Israel retaliates and kills more Arabs than the Jews killed by the Arab-lobbed rockets. (b) The US, regardless of which party controls the White House, publicly scolds Israel but continues to support the Jewish state. (c) The Arabs have been attacking Israel with lobbed rockets or similar attacks for the last 64 years, and Israel is, relative to the Arabs of the region, flourishing.
concerned.1 writes in part: “Hashem gave us Eretz Yisroel and we have got to protect it.” I agree with the first clause, but where in Torah are we commanded to protect Eretz Yisroel. I thought Hashem agreed to do that for us. We have not lived in Eretz Yisroel for major portions of out history. Should we not conclude that when we are again worthy of residing in EY, Hashem will take us there and protect us?November 25, 2012 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #908613rabbiofberlinParticipant
A couple of comments: to ‘ferd” i checked “wikipedia (quickest info) and Bibi actually opposed the gaza withdrawal- he asked for a public referendum-did not get it. he did vote for it but immedietsly resigned. So, you are technically correct in sayuing that he voted for the disengagement but certaingly worng in saying that he supported it. He did not.
to “zed’: your comments defy rationality.Are you seriously saying we should just sit with folded arms an do nothign to proetect ourselves? Do you have ANY source for this irraitonal behavior?
to “takahmamash”(and computer777): I wrote “maybe they will be crushed’-obviously they did not but this doesn’t mean that the govt. took the wrong decision. The only other option was to invade and re-occupy gaza. This will not happen. Whatwill happen is “cutting the grass ” every few years. We will have to continue to bomb them from time to time for a very long time. The basic fact is -as zed surprisinlgy writes- that the Jews in Israel have prospered for many years-Boruch Hashem- and will continue to do so while the enemeies wallow in poverty,
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