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reb M> The topic here is that the chareidim are doing their part by raising large families, and why is this issue not part of the equation of “sharing the burden”?
it is in the gemorah whether one can take someone’s life instead of his own – who says your blood is redder. And, as with all contracts, they require agreement of both sides. If you can convince the rest of Israelis of your mailos, I’ll have no problems with that at all! So, the question becomes: why don’t non-charedi Israelis value great charedi contribution in growing families, learning Torah, providing religious services to others, having great middos, inviting foreign investment, providing kiddush Hashem and kiddush medina story in international papers about great Torah lifestyle, etc?
You can’t blame this on anti-religious sentiment – B’H majority of Israelis are either observant or traditional, with many others indifferent rather than anti-religious.
rebM > EVEN those that agree under some circumstances to seme sore of chareidi devision/s in the army, that is only for those anyway not learning.
Any bachur or yungerman that is learning must be excemp from all and any other kind of service.This is a pretty reasonable position, with some details open to negotation – who counts as “learning”, and what quality of “learning”.
Mir mashgiach used to plead with the bachurim: I am signing your exemption as toraso umanoso, I never lied in my life, don’t make me into aliar, learn at full strength. What are the current mashgichim telling to you or your children – can someone quote?
YYA> Dati Leumi Rabbanim: “IDF Is Violating Orders;
this is the right way to deal with the issue – they participate, and then deal with problem that arise.> Ehrlich” is defined by Hashem and His Torah. Not by your personal sensibilities
Ehrlich is about obligations to the others. I understand you are taking offense of my suggestion to leave the country. This is purely a socratic argument here. You plan to take advantage of a service that others are providing for you and refuse to participate. You propose a payment that they find insufficient. Then, don’t use the service. You can live in EY outside of medina.> No one is looking to “get some acceptance” from the poritz.
When you live under Poritz and have a chance to live in a normal country, you need to move. See Rambam/desert. Any commentaries there that discuss whether and how is EY different in this aspect?> Because before there was a medinah and an IDF the Maskilim, Zionists and Secularists just loved us.
this is over the top. this is not current Israel.
> Don’t hold your breath waiting to see Belzer soldiers…
you know israeli politics better than I do, so maybe this is a ploy. But presumably rabbonim sign something they can agree with, they just hope that the plan will not work out. why then others do not sign to this? Could it be that you are projecting your uncompromising position onto them?
> the children belong to the Chareidim.
It is suggestive, but history is not always predictable. We had generations where things shifted a lot. Conservative movement in US was very strong 40% of population – and now it is not, they just stopped having children and enthusiasm towards the ideology. Everyone was “frum” in Lita contrary to Germany – until suddenly everyone stopped. If you continue ignoring social and ideological problems with charedism, you are making your community weaker, not stronger.it is more predictable that Israel will have observant majority – if you add RZ, stam observant and traditional Yidden together. Then, it will not be kashrus out of Ben Gurion’s sentimentalism, but because knesset will consistently vote for it. Is this exciting enough? Something unimaginable 100 years ago. Will we all be able to run the country together in an erliche way, or we will continue squabble? will your eineklah join IDG with kashrus mehadrin, women instructors in beis yaakov skirts and sheitels – but with, say hallel on yom haatzmaut? bli brocha?
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