August 19, 2012 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #604618blackhatwannabeParticipant
Why do Chassidish men shave their heads? Why doesnt even the litvish world do so also leaving their peyos behind their ear? It seems very cheap and economical especially for a kollel couple.August 20, 2012 8:02 am at 8:02 am #1098986CuriosityParticipant
Bc it’s weird!August 20, 2012 8:51 am at 8:51 am #1098987chocandpatienceMember
Some of the litvishe world do.
it is *very* economical, but that’s not why it’s done.
I guess it’s to emphasise the peyos.August 20, 2012 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #1098988FRUMKIDMember
Just like chassidishe coats button right over left to show that rachamim should cover din, the hair and nails are the only parts of the body that are not needed, a klippah, so they shave it off and cut the nails. Everything has a reason.August 20, 2012 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #1098989
It is even more economical for men to let their hair grow long and put it in a pony tail.August 20, 2012 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1098990Z-ZONEMember
is it true chassidishe women shave their heads as well? if it is true, why do they do it?August 20, 2012 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #1098991
Yes it is true, the Mekor for this is in Zohar.August 20, 2012 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #1098992August 20, 2012 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1098993ursketchingMember
someone told my mother it’s because in the torah it says that Sarah Imeinu covered her head and not her hair. why that makes sence-i don’t know. different strokes for different folkesAugust 20, 2012 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1098994WolfishMusingsParticipant
someone told my mother it’s because in the torah it says that Sarah Imeinu covered her head and not her hair.
I’m not aware of any pasuk that states such a thing. If you know of one, please provide a reference.
Furthermore, I believe that even if such a pasuk does exist, the fact that it does not mention hair cannot be used as proof that she did not have any.
The WolfAugust 20, 2012 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #1098995
Chaisidish men shave their heads because hair is klipos. Also long hair is a chatzitza for tefillin. Could someone please tell me a limid zchis why litvish keep a chup (bangs) instead of just cutting everything short, the Mishna Brurah speaks against chups I think but not 100% that it says it in siman 27. It is true that Chasidish women shave their heads. It says in Zohar Hakudosh that women should shave her hair and nails before going in mikvah. another reason I saw is that It says in Zohar Hakudosh that the walls of the house should not see the hair and if so then it is not a good thing and if she is careful then she will have good kids, the mishnah berura brings down this Zohar in siman 75. also if the hair sticks out of the mikvah it is a chatzitza.August 20, 2012 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #1098996blackhatwannabeParticipant
Would you ever shave head for a cancer patient (guys)?August 20, 2012 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1098997
RebRY: Hair must be extremely long before it’s a Chatzitzah. Also, to be a Chatzitzah it has to be folded unnaturally. As long as it’s growing in its natural way, it probably isn’t a Chatzitzah according to many Rishonim (that’s how they answer how Shimshon wore T’fillin). And the Gemara says that it’s a good thing that the walls of the house never see the hair (well, sort of; it says that someone got rewarded for it-which usually teaches us that something is a good thing but almost never implies an obligation). But that’s a Kal V’chomer to all other M’komos that are Ervah. And the shaved head of a woman is an Ervah just like any other normally covered part. Thus, shaving the head to avoid the house “seeing” her hair doesn’t solve anything. The house can’t “see” her shaved head either.August 20, 2012 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1098998WhiteberryMember
Which word in the MB means tshup?August 21, 2012 5:00 am at 5:00 am #1098999
I thought women shaving their heads was a hungarian minhag, not necessarily limited to chasidish women, although many younger (not chasidic) ones abandoned this practice. Can somebody please clarify?August 21, 2012 5:53 am at 5:53 am #10990002qwertyParticipant
The problem with shaving head is that someone might accidentally shave off few hairs from peyos. So i dont understand why someone would risk it?August 21, 2012 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1099002
It is a Chassidishe Minhag.
I once asked someone why Chasidishe women shave their hair, he told me it is a Zohar. The Zohar states that even if the hair is covered it should be cut.
He showed me that the Mishne Berura references this zohar. I do not remember where it is, however if this is important to you, I can try looking it up.August 21, 2012 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #1099003
Cutting into the peyos unfortunately is a big problem with Chasidim. There are alot whole don’t have a kosher shiur. In Williamburgs most mikvahs have a guy who cuts hair for 7$. Most of them just want the 7$ and don’t care about the shiur. In Pupa on Bedford the guy is very careful and knows the haluchos. I used to get my hair cut there until I moved to Boro Park and now just do it on my own because I don’t trust anyone except for him. I have a bigger shiur then most Chasidim and it looks “extreme” to most of them but it is not worth being oiver on a deoraisa.
Toi, a tuna beigel is no example, they are barely frum usually.August 22, 2012 3:39 am at 3:39 am #1099004
2 scents, thanks, I believe you and don’t need the source.
I was just wondering whether “only” chasidim have this minhag. Was it adopted by non chasidim in certain regions or not? It appeared to me that certain non chasidish (that some here would call heimish) relatives shaved. Maybe they cut their hair very, very, close, but that has always been my impression. Or they did it for practical reasons. I also remember once hearing this, but don’t remember the exact details. So can somebody please enlighten me further?August 22, 2012 4:47 am at 4:47 am #1099005
The Zohar does not say to cut the hair, it just talks about not showing it. They cut it to make sure it does not show. Before the advent of the fancy sheitels female shaving was a problem of making the wife unappealing in the eyes of her husband.
Chazizah for tefilin? Please, learn Hilchos Chatzizos in Y.D.198, you’ll see it is not really a problem.August 22, 2012 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1099006
mdd, it says not to show hair but I saw somewhere that it is says also to cut it off before going to the Mikva. also I don’t have a Y.D handy right now but I know in Hilchos Tefillin I think maybe 27 or 28 I don’t remember, I will look it up later but I know it says something about hair being a chatzitza.August 22, 2012 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #1099007RABBAIMParticipant
Bluris is a chupAugust 22, 2012 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #1099008
I cannot argue with you, since I do not have the Zohar in front of me, however I do remember seeing two people argue over the Zohar (they had the Mishne Berura which quotes the Zohar).
One was arguing that the real Pshat is to shave the hair and that is the way the Mishne Berura explains the Zohar, the other person explained that the real Pshat is not to shave.August 22, 2012 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1099009NechomahParticipant
Re women shaving head – I understood that it was Hungarish because a psak was given by the Chasam Sofer for women to shave before mikvah to prevent chatzitzos. I actually do it myself even though we are a very litvish family. I do find it tremendously easier to cover my hair and when going to mikvah.August 23, 2012 3:43 am at 3:43 am #1099010
Thanks Nechoma, that’s the info. I was looking for. Unfortunately many women with Hungarian roots have dropped this minhag, partly because they now consider themselves litvish, and many people, even here on yeshiva world, frown upon it and label it “satmar”.
It’s nice to know it works ther other way around sometimes too.
One of the reasons for this misconception may be because the Satmar Rebbe R’ Yoel was very against women not shave while others didn’t have the guts to fight the American trends.
(This not going against the flow btw was very prevalent in other areas such as basically yiddish dropping yiddish. The irony is that most satmar women at the time spoke hungarian as their main language, yet he managed to by reverse it with their sons, daughters and future generations speaking yiddish as their “mother” tongue.August 23, 2012 4:12 am at 4:12 am #1099011
Sorry about my typos, I didn’t manage to edit them…
I also wanted to add “most” of their sons, daughters, now a couple of generations down the line still speaking Yiddish — lest I be fined by the accuracy police…August 23, 2012 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #1099012
“Bluris is a chup”
I have heard many shiurim from Rabbi Reisman Shlita, where “bluris” has come up, and he goes out of his way to point out that what the gemara/halacha refers to as “bluris” is not what we commonly refer to a “tshup”. It is more like a pony tail, as a bluris is something that comes across the top of head towards the back. (Do not infer from this anything regarding Rabbi Reisman and a growing tshup)August 23, 2012 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1099013EnglishmanMember
How’s a ponytail a chatitza for tefilin?August 23, 2012 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #1099014WhiteberryMember
How is long hair on the front of your head a chatzitza for tefillin.
As an aside. I remember a shiur given by rabbi reisman where he mentioned a group of strong men david hamelech had. The gemara describes them as tough guys and one of the descriptions of them is that they all had a bluris. At that point he got sidetracked and mentioned that bluris, despite its common translation as chup, is not a chup. He mentioned rashis explanation of bluris and also the halacha of bluris and tefillin. I don’t remember what he said except “a bluris is not a chup”. I remember thinking “mohawk” as I heard his explanation.August 24, 2012 2:15 am at 2:15 am #1099015
Pashtus is that a Bluris is a combover. (Actually, there is a fair bit to discuss here. A combover should Vadai be a Chatzitzah for T’fillin. It’s unclear if a Bluris could also include other types of hairstyles that include having the hair be very long or bushy but leaving only the natural-growing hair in the forehead area.)August 24, 2012 2:42 am at 2:42 am #1099016
Sam2, I expected better from you. Learn Y.D.198!
2cents and RebRY, the Zohar is in Parshas Nasso. The chatitza shaving is in the Achronim. One of the reasons is since it is minhag to shave then…
Nechamah and Mammele, women head-shaving is disgusting. This is what we mandate for eshes yafas toar to make her repulsive in the eyes of her Yiddishe chosan.August 24, 2012 2:55 am at 2:55 am #1099017
mdd: I’m just as surprised with you. What reason do you have to connect Hilchos Chatzitzah in Niddah to T’fillin? Pashtus is there are two very different issues at hand here. One is about being M’akev the water (though I will be honest, I’m not perfectly clear on YD 198 whether a Chatzitzah is only about blocking the water or whether there are two types of Chatzitzos there as well) while by T’fillin we’re worried about creating a Hefsek between where the T’fillin are supposed to be and where they actually are.August 24, 2012 3:50 am at 3:50 am #1099018
Chatzizah be’tvilah is a problem because it creates a hefsek between the guf and the water. Hair should not be a chatzizah as it is a part of the guf. There is no din that it has to be on the shaved head.August 24, 2012 4:04 am at 4:04 am #1099019
mdd: I don’t think so. We’d have to see if any Achronim bring up the case of someone with a long mustache blowing Shofar. But I don’t think by T’vilah it’s a Din in Hefsek. I think it’s a Din in the water not physically touching. Hefsek is a Halachic term, not necessarily a statement of reality.August 24, 2012 4:13 am at 4:13 am #1099020
Who decided how much hair is too much? It is either nothing or any length.August 24, 2012 5:24 am at 5:24 am #1099022
My post was deleted, so i’ll try to censure myself.
Mdd: The Chasam Sofer knew about this, so obviously there’s more to a jewish woman’ s chein than her hair. Also, a Jewish woman that shaves covers her head afterwards, unlike I’m assuming the woman you mentioned. And there’s nothing disgusting about a yiddisha minhag, even if you don’t like it.
The reason for women shaving is not because of chatzitzah but davka because the hair is part of her body, and there’s a risk that some hair may float above the water and not be properly immersed.August 24, 2012 11:52 am at 11:52 am #1099023
Mamele, Poskim, at times, critisize minhagim despite the fact that they are Yiddishe minhagim. I think this one is an extreme one. Most men are not on the madreigah to put up with it. It was especially true in the era of shvach sheitels. And even though the Chasam Sofer did not condemn it, I remain with my opinin. The Chazal were very concerned with the wife’s appearance in the eyes of her husband.August 24, 2012 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #1099024
mdd: I agree, hair being a Chatzitzah is a Chumra of the Achronim with a relatively weak basis in the Rishonim. But they do bring it down. Pashtus the difference is whether this is a spot where the hair naturally grew, though such a difference isn’t Shayach in Hilchos T’vilah. That’s why I said a combover. Though it’s fairly clear that some Achronim hold that having thick or long hair naturally at the front of the head could be a Chatzitzah. I agree it’s a Dachuk P’sak. But you cannot deny that some Achronim do say it.August 24, 2012 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #1099025
Sam2,that’s approxim. what I meant.August 24, 2012 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #1099026
Mdd: I just came across this thread about the Skulener rebbe shlita suggesting for a woman to shave when she asked about undertaking something to merit special hatzlacha.
I don’t know what she ended up doing, but thought you might want to know that there are many holy people nowadays sanctioning it.August 24, 2012 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #1099027
Mammele,there are certain things which are a chumrah mi’tzad zeh, but a kulah mi’tzad acher. And the Chassidim are generaly very machmir on a whole number of things.August 26, 2012 2:27 am at 2:27 am #1099028
I am not trying to “convert” you into a chassid with their minhagim, I was objecting to your calling it “disgusting”.August 26, 2012 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1099029jewishnessParticipant
A valid point is raised. In this coming weeks parsha we read about the yifas toar.
In order to make her ugly her head is shaved.
Why would a Jewish woman do something ugly?
And besides from the story of kimchis is it not clear that she had hair??
Why be frummer than the famous kimchis who is the gemorahs be all and end all of modest women. THE example of tznius.
There is also a gemorah about the woman in the city where people didn’t die…everyone told the truth…she was washing her hair when someone came to the door…she didn’t want to say….
So she too had hair.
We also find the sotah has her hair exposed. Now there is no indication that she was deviating from the norm….we do it to shame her………
So shaving the head makes a woman ugly (open verse) and even kimchis would not shave her hair????
teretz?August 27, 2012 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #1099030rabbiofberlinParticipant
just a few observations: as “mammele’ writes, the hungarian minhag -al pi chassam sofer- was to shave the woman’s head because they were worried that ,during tevilah, a hair or two would float above the water (especially when they are long)and so the tevilah would not be good.
there is also a “zohar’ (mdd was kind enough to show us a mareh mokom) that equates hair as coming from the “sitra achara” -the evil side and because of that men also shave their head-apart from the peyos. Incidentally, this does not apply to the beard-obviously!
Notwithstanding this late hungarian minhag, it is clear from tenach and gemoro and rishonim that women never shaved their head prior to the nineteenth century.”lulei demistafina” – if I would not be scared on saying this, I would venture to say that this minhag originated in the eighteenth century when all kind of people- including gentiles- shaved their heads for hygienic reasons- and the Jews followed suit- with an assist from a specific chumro.August 27, 2012 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #1099031tahiniMember
According to my Sephardi husband’s family minhag, a sheitel is assur and all the women in the family upon marriage, keep their hair long and well kept for their husbands but outside of the home or in mixed company wear scarves/hats.
I respect the minhagim of different communities, on a personal level I feel it is very important to be attractive for one’s husband at home and I have passed this belief on to my daughters, who have adapted to the communities they live amidst, wearing a mix of sheitels and scarves. None of their neighbours know my girls have long hair, but their husbands do, they have spoken of how it has enhanced their marriages, creating a bond between husband and wife to have a wife whose true appearance is only known to her spouse.August 28, 2012 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #1099032ursketchingMember
WOLFISHMUSING-I never said thats the reason or that pasuk exists. all i said is that someone told that to my mother. it could be made up.August 28, 2012 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #1099033YW userMember
I was wondering do chasidish woman let their hair grow back after the initial shave? or do they keep on making themselves bald? And in reference to the person who wrote that woman are supposed to look beautiful for their husbands, who said that woman who shave cant have a stunning sheitel exclusively for their husbands?August 28, 2012 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #1099034
“So she too had hair.”
But how long? Perhaps it was nothing more than peach fuzz.August 28, 2015 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1099035DaMosheParticipant
Did anyone see Lipa’s video? He wants to stop the foolishness of women shaving their hair off. He says in today’s times, where temptation is everywhere, woman should want to appear more beautiful for their husbands. In this week’s parshah, it says a woman with a shaved head is ugly. Why would a woman want to look ugly to her husband?August 30, 2015 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1099036👑RebYidd23Participant
Women are usually very busy working and raising a family. Now you want them to have to deal with hair also?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.