Shavous Learning

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  • #647378

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Bemused: Megilla 28B, and Rishonim there.

    #647379

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    tb, are you implying that a woman learning is NOT ratzon hashem? That seems to be what you are replying to.

    #647380

    Bemused
    Participant

    GAW- thank you

    #647381

    tb
    Participant

    sjs – I believe a woman learning is not always ratzon hashem. Depends on how, where, when and why. And if she is “learning” and neglecting other obligations because the learning gives her more spiritual fullfillment than I think that is wrong (and fake). But if all her other obligations have been fullfilled I don’t think that there is anything wrong with her sitting down and learning something.

    For example (and if you don’t agree with my premise lets just skip it for now, not trying to start a new fight) the practice of having goyim babysit for your kids on Yom Kippur so you can go to shul. You definitely feel a bigger spiritual uplift by being in shul on Yom Kippur than by being home all day with your kids. However if leaving them with a goyisha babysitter is the wrong thing to do, than no matter how spiritual the ne’eila seems to you, it is not real spirituallity because that was not what hashem wanted from you at that moment. He wanted you to be home and telling them for the 59th time that day that they should not be pulling the toys away from each other – or whatever. (again, I am just giving this as an example so don’t tell me about all the other options of how to work out going to shul on YK that are OK. YK is not my point right now)

    #647382

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    OK, I hear what you are saying. But at no point was anyone talking about neglecting their duties.

    Lets look at Jfem for a moment – she is a young, single woman. She enjoys learning and is spiritually uplifted by it. Why shouldn’t she be learning as much as she can?

    Remember, women have NO obligation to get married and have children. So if a woman prefers learning to child rearing (not that the two are mutually exclusive either), there should be no reason why she shouldn’t follow the more spiritually fulfilling path. Especially in this case, a woman would be choosing between spiritual fulfillment and a lack of spiritual fulfillment, not between something that is assur or mutar. You are not talking about serving an idol because you find it spiritually uplifting – you are talking about avodat hashem (even when NOT obligatory).

    I understand where you are coming with your example, but I do disagree with the premise. Woman are obligated in certain mitzvot – they are not obligated in child rearing. I think a better example is to look at women who daven maariv. They are not obligated, but if it helps them spiritually, it is important for them. If they choose to go to minyan because they find that more spiritually uplifting, that is great for them – but again, no obligation.

    #647384

    tb
    Participant

    “Remember, women have NO obligation to get married and have children. So if a woman prefers learning to child rearing (not that the two are mutually exclusive either), there should be no reason why she shouldn’t follow the more spiritually fulfilling path. Especially in this case, a woman would be choosing between spiritual fulfillment and a lack of spiritual fulfillment, not between something that is assur or mutar. You are not talking about serving an idol because you find it spiritually uplifting – you are talking about avodat hashem (even when NOT obligatory).”

    Although woman have no halachic obligation to marry and have children, I do believe that Chazal make it clear that this is a woman’s tafkid in life. If you want I can dig up some sources – the only thing that immediately comes to mind is “Noshim Bemay Zachyan….” Tell me if it needs elaboration, it is a pretty frequently quoted gemorah in my circles anyway.

    you also write that if a woman “prefers” learning to child rearing than there is no reason that she shouldn’t choose “the more spiritually fullfilling path”. My point was exactly that preference and feelings have nothing to do with spiritual fullfillment!!! Spiritual fulfillment has to do with retzon hashem. And if what HE wants (even if you can’t find a mishna brura or shulchon oruch that brings it down as a halacha) is something different than 1) all your preference and feelings have no basis in reallity and 2) if you have the right attitude you will be able to find spiritual fullfillment in the task that you dismissed as not spiritually fullfilling.

    #647385

    tb
    Participant

    “I understand where you are coming with your example, but I do disagree with the premise. Woman are obligated in certain mitzvot – they are not obligated in child rearing. I think a better example is to look at women who daven maariv. They are not obligated, but if it helps them spiritually, it is important for them. If they choose to go to minyan because they find that more spiritually uplifting, that is great for them – but again, no obligation.”

    Did you really say that once a woman has children, she has no obligation to raise them?!? Please clarify because I am sure that I must have misunderstood.

    #647386

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    tb, most women naturally want to get married and have children.

    **EDITED**

    I was not saying that once a woman has a child she isn’t obligated to raise them. I was saying they are not obligated in having them. I was comparing a woman learning to a woman davening maariv, because I think thats a closer corrolation and one that people here can relate to a little bit more.

    Also, once parents have children they are BOTH obligated in raising them. Its not a women’s only thing. Women tend to do most of the “raising” because men have more time obligations (they have to go to minyan for example), so even if they are sharing the load, the man is out of the house more often for minyan.

Viewing 8 posts - 101 through 108 (of 108 total)
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