Shavuos: Cheese-Cake Reason?

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  • #591645

    ty
    Member

    what is the reason for cheese cake ?

    #1156750

    anonymrs
    Participant

    i dont know for sure, but my guess is that it has two reasons. one is the same reason that many are noheg to have a dairy meal- im not sure exactly how it goes, but something to do with the laws of kashrus not being known/ understood at the time. second, cheese cake is generally very sweet, and perhaps that extra sugar kick late at night is meant to infuse men with much needed energy to be able to stay up and learn.

    #1156751

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I hate cheesecake. It has cheese.

    By the way, what’s with people making milchig meals? The halacha clearly states that simchos yom tov for men is meat and wine. If I ever get married I’m going to tell my wife that if she’s mochel on her simchas yom tov (new clothes), I’ll be mochel on mine.

    just kidding, I still would want my meat

    #1156752

    charliehall
    Participant

    While there is halachic support for meat meals on Yom Tov, there are also great rabbis who have advocated becoming vegetarians, including Chaim Zundel Maccoby, the Kamenitzer Maggid; Rabbi David Cohen “The Nazir”, his son Rabbi Shear Yashuv Cohen, his son in law Rabbi Shlomo Goren; and current UK Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, all themselves vegetarians. Rav Kook also advocated vegetarianism.

    #1156753

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    what is the reason for cheese cake ?

    Because they like it.

    Now, if you question is why have dairy meals on Shavuous, that’s a different question.

    The Wolf

    #1156754

    tomim tihye
    Member

    When the Jews accepted the Torah, they wished to celebrate. However, they now had laws governing the preparation of kosher meat, and the lengthy preparation would delay their celebration. Thus, they prepared a dairy meal.

    We commemorate this meal as it represents the joy felt by the Jews when they received the Torah. They immediately accepted the fact that meat would no longer be simple to prepare and forfeited this delicacy in favor of immediate celebration of the Torah.

    #1156755

    jewish girl
    Member

    i think the reason for eating cheese is becouse of yehudis or watever her name is got tht king killed by giving him cheese and wine im not quite sure

    #1156756

    tomim tihye
    Member

    Right, and we light 2 candles because there are only 2 days, and not 8 this time.

    #1156757

    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    I eat cheese cake because it tastes good so is therefore a good minhag 🙂

    I like the minhag of first having a milchigs, then cheesecake for dessert, then you bring out a 2nd challa in memory of shtai halechem, then you have fleishigs. It’s the best of both worlds!

    #1156758

    I’m a dairy person so reason or not-I’d love lasagna, pizza, cheesecake, dairy chocolate…every shabbos. My mouth’s already watering!!!!!

    #1156759

    smartcookie
    Member

    Jewish girl- the story of Yehudis belongs to chanukah and not shavuos.

    We eat milchigs because, as mentioned b4, when the yidden got the torah with all new halachos from basar and chalav, they didn’t know how to cook up a meal with their treife keilim so they ate light dairy food that didn’t need cooking. (Raw cheescake anyone?!)

    #1156760

    d a
    Member

    jewish girl

    i think the reason for eating cheese is becouse of yehudis or watever her name is got tht king killed by giving him cheese and wine im not quite sure

    You got the wrong holiday! That is Chanuka.

    tomim tihye said the rite answer. We eat dairy because we could not cook because all our pots were non-kosher.

    charliehall

    While there is halachic support for meat meals on Yom Tov, there are also great rabbis who have advocated becoming vegetarians, including Chaim Zundel Maccoby, the Kamenitzer Maggid; Rabbi David Cohen “The Nazir”, his son Rabbi Shear Yashuv Cohen, his son in law Rabbi Shlomo Goren; and current UK Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, all themselves vegetarians. Rav Kook also advocated vegetarianism.

    It is not so simple. Rabbi Avigdor Miller was once asked if it is permitted to be a vegetarian. He answered that if you are doing it for health/mrdical reasons, tthen okay. But if you are doing it to protect the animals then “your an apikoros and hate the Torah.”

    I heard this from my father, who heard it directly from Rabbi Miller.

    #1156761

    d a
    Member

    I would like to correct the last paragraph of my previous post:

    It is not so simple. Rabbi Avigdor Miller was once asked if it is permitted to be a vegetarian. He answered that if you are doing it for health/medical reasons, then okay. If you don’t like meat, then enjoy your vegetables. But if you are doing it because you think that it is wrong, then ” you should know that your an apikoros and hate the Torah.”

    I heard this from my father, who heard it directly from Rabbi Miller.

    #1156762

    ty
    Member

    Do you eat a milchige (dairy) meal on Shavuos?

    #1156763

    d a
    Member

    This is what my family does.

    After staying up all night and davening, we go home, make Kiddush and eat a dairy “meal”.

    Cheese cake, cereal, cheese (and potato) blintzes, ice cream and other dairy stuff (I can’t remember what else, Shavuos was almost a year ago!). Then, we go to sleep and wake up around 1 and eat the regular Seuda.

    #1156764

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    my friend used to like cheescake. He doesn’t now that he found out that it has cream cheese

    #1156765

    oomis
    Participant

    “While there is halachic support for meat meals on Yom Tov, there are also great rabbis who have advocated becoming vegetarians, including Chaim Zundel Maccoby, the Kamenitzer Maggid; Rabbi David Cohen “The Nazir”, his son Rabbi Shear Yashuv Cohen, his son in law Rabbi Shlomo Goren; and current UK Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, all themselves vegetarians. Rav Kook “

    I would really love to know how all these vegetarians will eat the Korban Pesach when we have the Beis Hamidash again.

    #1156766

    oomis
    Participant

    I could not be without my cheesecake on Shavuos, and my Mother O”H’s unmatched blintzes. Her cheese filling was sweet, but not too sweet, just the right consistency, and the blintze crepes were perfection. I will never eat any cheese blintzes except the ones made with her recipe. Alas, NO one in my family will eat either cheesecake OR cheese blintzes (wait – the upside is, MORE for ME!!!)

    #1156767

    tomim tihye
    Member

    G-d bless my husband, who says that ice cream is dairy enough for him. If my kids want cheesecake, I’ll let my daughter make it if she washes the utensils.

    #1156768

    ty
    Member

    FLOWERS AND GREENS

    A beautiful long-standing Shavuot tradition is the decoration of our homes and shuls (synagogues) with fragrant flowers, leaves, tree branches, and greens. Many reasons have been given for this custom.

    Flowers: Our Sages taught that although Har Sinai was situated in a desert, in honor of the Torah the desert bloomed and sprouted flowers.

    Greens: Our Sages taught that on Shavuot judgment is rendered regarding the trees of the field.

    TIKUN LAIL SHAVUOT

    A well established Minhag (custom) calls for all-night Torah study on the first night of Shavuot, because on the day the Bnei Yisroel were to receive the Torah, the nation overslept. As an atonement, the Zohar says that certain pious individuals would remain awake the entire night of Shavuot as a means to rectify this lapse.

    In some congregations, Rabbis lecture deep into the night, either to enable the entire congregation to study the same topic or perhaps to accommodate those who are not capable of studying by themselves, (or perhaps to put some congregants to sleep – only kidding).

    DAIRY MEALS

    It is customary to eat a dairy meal at least once on Shavuot. Others eat dairy products (but not hard cheese) before the main (meat) lunch meal.

    There are several reasons given by our Sages for the custom of eating a dairy meal on Shavuot. One of them is, that on Shavuot, the Bnei Yisroel had just received the Torah (and the laws of Kashrut therein), and they did not have both meat and dairy dishes yet, and were unable to use their dishes that day (Shabbat) until they were rendered Kosher by the proper process of “kashering” utensils. Thus their meal was a dairy meal.

    Another reason is that the Torah is compared to Milk.

    The word for milk, Chalav, has the numerical value of 40, corresponding to the 40 days Moses spent on Har Sinai.

    For a great Shavuot recipe Click here.

    AKDAMUT

    On the first day of Shavuot, after the Kohain has been called to the Torah, but before he recites his blessing, Akdamut is read responsively, the chazzan saying two verses, and the congregation saying the next two. It was composed as an introduction to the Aseret Hadibrot. Consisting of ninety verses, composed by Rabbi Meir ben Yitzchak, it is probably one of Judaism’s best known and most beloved Piyut (liturgical poem). It is a description of Hashem’s creation of the world and close look at the splendors of Olam Habah (the World to Come). It describes the Malachim’s praise of Hashem and the greatness and the suffering of Bnei Yisroel.

    MEGILLAT (THE SCROLL OF) RUTH

    Megillat Ruth is read on the second day of Shavuot, before the reading of the Torah. Many reasons are given for this practice:

    The entire Torah is loving kindness, and this Megillah consists of loving kindness, therefore it is read on the day of the giving of the Torah (Midrash Rabbah).

    The act of Ruth’s conversion took place during the harvest season, ‘at the beginning of the barley harvest’ to the ‘end of the wheat harvest.’ This period includes the Yom Tov Shavuot.

    Matan Torah marks the beginning of the Jewish Nation, when they entered into the Covenant with Hashem. Megillat Ruth tells how Ruth entered into that Covenant.

    copy from http://www.torahtots.com/holidays/shavuos/shavustr.htm

    #1156769

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Would I be considered an apikores if I said I didn’t like cheesechake (on Shavuous or any other day of the year)?

    The Wolf

    #1156770

    oomis
    Participant

    Wolf – Yes.

    Shavuos without cheesecake is like…well.. Shavuos without cheesecake. You probably have simply never eaten a piece of an amazing cheesecake. I make a marble cheesecake once a year only, l’kovod yom tov, which you would swear is like vanilla fudge ice cream, but better. The irony is that no one in my family but my husband and me, will eat it. And he has a sugar problem, so he doesn’t eat it anymore, either. I have to invite a LOT of company (I do, anyhow), just to keep from allowing my yetzer hara to get the better of me. IT’S A REALLY GOOOOOOOOD CHEESECAKE!

    #1156771

    oomis
    Participant

    TY : TY, for that beautiful piece on Shavuos.

    #1156772

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Would I be considered an apikores if I said I didn’t like cheesechake (on Shavuous or any other day of the year)?

    Wolf – Yes.

    Oh well. That’s another rung lower in hell for me. 🙂

    The Wolf

    #1156773

    the.nurse
    Member

    Wolf,

    I’m with you on this one. Never touched a piece of cheesecake in my life.

    But give me other dairy food… pizza, pasta ‘n cheese, ice cream… then you’ve got my mouth watering.

    #1156774

    charliehall
    Participant

    d a,

    Do you really believe that Rav Miller z’tz’l would think that Rabbis Cohen z’tz’l, and Goren z’t’zl were apikorsim? Do you think that he would consider Rabbis Cohen and Sacks are apikorsim today? They have all advanced pretty good arguments why not eating meat is the Torah ideal. (And you never have to worry about the quality of the shechita.) Was Rav Miller, great as he was, of equivalent stature?

    #1156775

    volvie
    Member

    Rav Miller ztv”l was certainly of greater stature. And who said anything of apikorsus?? Nevertheless, R. Goren in particular was not mainstream and took positions extremely opposed by Gedolei Yisroel ztv”l.

    #1156776

    squeak
    Participant

    WolfishMusings

    Member

    Oh well. That’s another rung lower in hell for me. 🙂

    The Wolf

    How many circles can there be already? I’m only aware of 9. 😀 😀

    #1156777

    d a
    Member

    I am not comparing Rabbonim C”V. I am only repeating the story my father told me.

    #1156778

    smartcookie
    Member

    You people that don’t like cheesecake are so silly!!! Lol!!

    OOMIS- can I get that marble cheesecake recipe? I wanna make a good one.

    #1156779

    charliehall
    Participant

    “who said anything of apikorsus?”

    Rav Miller z’tz’l, at least according to d a.

    Do you

    (1) Believe that Rav Miller z’tz’l didn’t say what d a said he said and that d a or his father are liars, or

    (2) Agree with Rav Miller z’tz’l that the rabbis mentioned are apikorsim (they all wrote that vegetarianism is ideal from a Torah perspective), or

    (3) Disagree with Rav Miller z’tz’l on this issue?

    #1156780

    volvie
    Member

    I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to doubt a single word d a stated. In fact, d a’s description fits in very well with Rabbi Miller’s teachings and gadlus.

    You also have provided no corroboration of your stated or implied description of Rabbis Cohen, Goren, and Sacks opposing eating meat because they held it was wrong to eat meat for a reason other than health or enjoyment. (d a’s description stated Rabbi Miller only opposed the practice of vegetarianism when accompanied with the belief that eating meat is wrong.)

    Additionally both Rabbis Goren and Sacks were never considered to be amongst the Gedolim and in fact have taken controversial stances condemned by the Gedolim. (Rabbi Goren was vehemently opposed by the Gedolim for his controversial positions on mamzeirim amongst other things, and Rabbi Sacks for his endorsement of pure relativism between religions, and that Judaism is not the sole true religion i.e. “No one creed has a monopoly on spiritual truth.”)

    #1156781

    cherrybim
    Participant

    “and they did not have both meat and dairy dishes yet, and were unable to use their dishes that day (Shabbat) until they were rendered Kosher by the proper process of “kashering” utensils. Thus their meal was a dairy meal.”

    So how did they prepare and eat their dairy meal with non-kosher keilim? And weren’t b’nai yisroel eating the mon at the time? Is this where the minhag came to have cold-cuts on Shabbos?

    #1156782

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    And weren’t b’nai yisroel eating the mon at the time?

    I don’t see any reason to say (especially when they had livestock available) that they ate manna exclusively.

    and were unable to use their dishes that day (Shabbat) until they were rendered Kosher by the proper process of “kashering” utensils.

    They should have used plastic. 🙂

    Oh, right, I forgot… if they’d done that, no one would have had a shidduch and that would have been the last generation of K’lal Yisroel. 🙂

    The Wolf

    #1156783

    charliehall
    Participant

    Volvie,

    I could present links to the positions to the rabbis I mentioned but YWN does not permit outside links. You will have to find them yourself.

    Rabbi Sacks is probably the most brilliant Jewish mind alive today and he should not be dismissed as casually as you do.

    Rabbi Goren’s position that one can pasul a conversion does indeed has no precedent in halachah, but that has not stopped the “Gedolim” from accepting it and in fact taking it far further than Rabbi Goren would ever have imagined.

    #1156784

    oomis
    Participant

    “Oh well. That’s another rung lower in hell for me. 🙂 “

    CHAS v’CHALILAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    SmartCookie – Here it is:

    Oomis’ Fabulous Marble Cheesecake – Preheat oven to 400 degrees

    12 oz. chocolate bits (use really good ones)

    1 C. flour, divided into 3/4 C. and 1/4 C. piles

    1 C. sugar, plus an additional 2 TBS. (keep separate)

    1/4 tsp. salt

    1/4 C. butter

    24 oz. bar-type cream cheese(don’t use “lite” cream cheese,PLEASE)

    2 TBS. pure vanilla extract

    6 eggs, separated (if you really HATE to do that, it will taste

    virtually just as good without separating the eggs, it will

    just be slightly denser, which many people prefer).

    1 C. sour cream (again, do not use “lite” type)

    Melt the chocolate, either in a microwave or in the top of a double boiler, being careful not to burn. Mix together the 3/4 C. flour, 2 TBS. sugar, and salt. Cut in the butter plus 2 heaping Tbs. of melted chocolate (I like to use a little more than that). Mix the dough thoroughly until all of it is really chocolatey. Thoroughly spray the bottom and sides of a 9″ Springform pan with non-stick plus flour spray (Mishpacha, Baker’s Joy, and pam all make such a flour spray), and pat the dough evenly over the bottom of the pan. Bake at 400 degrees for 10-15 minutes. Remove from oven, and prepare the filling.

    In a large mixing bowl beat the C. of sugar together with the cheese until very creamy. Add the vanilla, remaining 1/4 C. of flour, 6 egg yolks, and sour cream. Beat really well. Now beat up the 6 egg whites until stiff and fold into the batter (I personally hate to do this, so as I said earlier, the step can be omitted, just mix the whole eggs in to begin with). After folding the whites in thoroughly, remove two C. of batter and fold the remaining melted chocolate into it. Now comes the fun part. Alternate pouring plain cheese batter and chocolate cheese batter into the pan. Take a spatula and cut through the batter to the bottom, to swirl it. Be careful not to swirl it TOO much, or you will have a yummy CHOCOLATE cheesecake, instead of a yummy marble one. Reduce the oven to 300 degrees and put the pan in the oven to bake for an hour. Let it sit in the oven with the heat turned off and the door closed, for another hour (no peeking). Cool thoroughly on a cake rack, cover with foil, and then chill overnight (I keep mine in the freezer, and take it out about 20 minutes before serving).

    I know it’s a potchkeh, but SO worth it. To really streamline this recipe, maybe don’t separate the eggs and try making it in graham cracker crusts (probably makes two or three pies at least). Adjust the baking time, though, as it will bake faster, maybe 45 minutes. B’tayavon!

    #1156785

    smartcookie
    Member

    Thanks Oomis. Looks a bit too complimlicated for my non baking skills but yum!!

    I really wanna try it. Will see. Yasher koach.

    #1156786

    volvie
    Member

    charlie, the dismissal for the aforementioned reasons of both R.’s Sacks and Goren has been made by the Gedolim. Allowing the remarriage of a married woman not only has no precedent, it creates mamzeirim.

    #1156787

    koma
    Member

    Chumash lesson: on Devarim 13:20, Hulin 84a. Tannu Rabanan: That which he hunts (kissui hadam) meaning only what he hunts, what of captured or domestic birds? These are included by the word ‘tzed’. So what does ‘that he hunts mean? The Torah hereby teaches you derech eretz: That you should not eat meat without this preparation. Rashi on ‘this preaparation’: as if you needed to hunt, that is is not readily available, iow, don’t eat meat frequently, so as not to become poor.

    Tannu Rabanan: “when Hashem broadens your borders”: the Torah taught us derech eretz–that a person should not eat meat except in ‘teavon’ (not a common state?). Should then a person buy from the market and eat? Talmud lomar” and you shall slaugter from your cattle and sheep. Should then he slaughter all his animals, Talmud lomar ” from the cattle and sheep” and not all of them.

    The import of the gemara here is there is a problem with frequent, casual meat consumption. In contrast, if one brings a korban shlamim, there is a great deal of meat to eat, and matanos to leviim and to kohanim. The diet of the kohanim certainly included a great deal of meat. The common denominator is there is spirtiual danger in eating meat,and there are means of protection.

    . Either you have the kodesh component, or you have the bother of shehitah, melicha, kissui for birds or wild things, the removal of fat and the gid hanasheh. This would seemingly exclude the concept of going to Moishes supermarket to pick up a roast, not that the concept was unknown to chazal.

    #1156788

    koma
    Member

    and in MHO, the only civilized way to do a cheesecake is with a farmer cheese and sourcream filling. Just a little less of a heart attack recipe that the Satmar Rebetzin’s.

    #1156789

    cherrybim
    Participant

    koma, no one has ever gotten a heart attack C”V from eating cheesecake/pie on Shavuous; the richer, the better.

    I have the best recipe ever for cheese pie; everyone says that nothing comes close to it (original crust, no sour cream or farmer cheese and not overly sweet). However, the recipe is sworn to secrecy.

    #1156790

    koma
    Member

    cherrybim: Thats a tough call. Its like me saying that all the heart attacks I handled as a Hatzolanik were avid cheesecake eaters.Its just accepted medicine that the Western diet with high animal fat and yesh omrim ANY fat is a good predictor of bad health. Not that a one time fling ( with a cheesecake) is going to harm a body.Good Yomtov.

    #1156791

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    koma, no one has ever gotten a heart attack C”V from eating cheesecake/pie on Shavuous;

    How do you know that?

    And how do you know it was never a contributing factor in a later heart attack?

    The Wolf

    #1156792

    cherrybim
    Participant

    WolfishMusings – The cheesecake on Shevuos is not going to give anyone a heart attack.

    Memaila: If you need to lose weight or need to monitor your cholesterol level, it’s not the cake you eat on Yom Tov that’s going to put you over the top; give the musser for the eating before or after Yom Tov, but don’t make the oneg Yom Tov a karbin for the indulgence the rest of the year.

    And if your levels are ok, again, it’s Yom Tov; don’t deny yourself the “Chtzee La’chem”.

    #1156793

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    WolfishMusings – The cheesecake on Shevuos is not going to give anyone a heart attack.

    And, once again, I ask how you know that.

    Granted, one cheesecake isn’t going to kill anyone (unless they choke on it), but it can certainly be part of a larger pattern of eating foods that aren’t good for you — which can kill.

    The Wolf

    #1156794

    cherrybim
    Participant

    WolfishMusings – Fine, but don’t punish the guy on Yom Tov; let him wait two days when there are no crumbs left and the simchas Tim Tov is not a factor. Denying an addict his cheesecake on Yom Tov will probably kill him anyway.

    #1156795

    koma
    Member

    Indeed. Depending on your cultural baggage, you may or may not be familiar with the guy who died for piece of Mamas apple strudel. Also implicated in the health tzoros is that the beef bearing critters of today are not as those of yesteryear, when the thing ate only grass, and you had to run to catch it.

    #1156796

    squeak
    Participant

    Don’t let SJS see this thread! Are you really indulging in cheesecake instead of paying full tuition? 😛

    #1156797

    oomis
    Participant

    “However, the recipe is sworn to secrecy. “

    Bleah :p

    That’s just plain mean.

    #1156798

    tomim tihye
    Member

    squeak- Boruch Shekivanti! I was thinking the exact same thing!

    Actually, that thread got me thinking that maybe I should serve our tuition bill on Yom Tov. Or at least for dessert.

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