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Can someone please respond to “alwaysaskquestions’ comment, I thought he had a good point. I’m curious to see if anyone has a rebuttal
Yay, we have a new Chabad fanatic to discuss things with! This thread is about to get completely derailed.
Rebbetzin Yehudit Chana Chaya: why do you call the Luibavitcher Rebbe Hashem’s son, and with a capital S? Isn’t that a Christian belief? They believe Jesus was the son of God (obviously a huge error) – are you one of the Christian Chabadniks, who believes the Rebbe was divine, and you’re awaiting his second coming?yehudit,
Do you actually believe that you “gave myself to H”M and His Son, Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson”?
What does that mean and which religion do you belong to?
Apukorma you lost me at “show off” being a decent human being means remaining humble.
Extreme wealth creates lots of problems
Disconnect from basic hardship which makes people huaghty. Extreme social expectations for who’s on the in crowd making it harder for anyone to measure up to the status qoa. And a big one being cruel to the poor because of lack of humanity.
That’s a big one.Rescue- there is a concept of not being a stumbling block before the blind….
So according to you women don’t need to bother to be modest since men can’t control their feelings of attraction anyways?
This is not a torah oriented way of thinking. Women are required to be as modest as possible and men need to guard their eyes too. But women have a responsibility to try to ensure that they do not dress and cover their hair in a manner that entices men and causes them to have hihurim.
Chazal classified the hair of a married woman as ervah- the Terumas Hadeshen explains that the reason why the Torah commanded a married woman to cover her hair in public is because it is pritzus d’gavra, an attraction to men. Since the hair of a married woman beautifies her, is attractive to men and can cause them to sin, it must be covered. A male is forbidden to see a married woman’s hair, since it causes sinful thoughts about her which are forbidden.
An unmarried girl need not cover her hair. The Torah did not obligate her to cover it- although it adds charm to her appearance, since she is not an eishes ish and therefore has no need to hide this part of her chein in public. The Torah requires a married woman to conceal her hair from the eyes of the public in order to lessen attraction to herself, because once she is married, she may neither attract attention to herself nor may any man, other than her husband, enjoy her beauty.
So if we are going to be intellectually honest here, wigs today usually cause women to look more attractive, not less. They only attract men’s attention, therefore they are not modest head coverings but another item of beauty, fashion and glamour worn only to provoke.An interesting point to note that this need to cover the hair in public stems from Chava, who after causing her husband Adam to sin, was told that she must cover her hair (similar to the need to be covered post-sin) (Eruvin 100b). Had she not sinned, the lure of her natural beauty would not have become a trigger for men to falter (Oz V’hadar Levusha page 244:H)
A great resource of info about the topic of hair covering:To DaMoshe and GadolHadofi
You beat me to the punch. Of course, the Chabad apologists will call her just another crazy that we should ignore as exceptions to the rule. Hameivin yavin
BaruchLesin: Tznius is not about a woman not causing a man to sin. Tznius is valuable in and of itself, even with no men present.
Also, you have repeatedly quoted from R’ Falk’s book, Oz V’hadar Levusha. Mori v’Rebbe, R’ Bender shlita, told me straight out that this book is terrible, and he wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. It takes pretty much every known chumrah in this area, and presents it as basic halachah. He told me it has done more to drive people away from tznius than almost anything else, because it scares them away.Baruchlesin
No I’m being realistic and saying no matter how much you try to control the narrative. Dressing up is important to woman. And your never going to change anything lol. It’s unrealistic to say they need to wear a burka which is literally what your saying in different words.DaMoshe:
You want to argue with Trumas Hadeshen? With the Gemara?
What I quoted from Rav Falk is all Torah sourced. It’s not Rav Falk making these statements.
There are other sefarim that have these same statements and sources.
one example- The Maalos Hamiddos teaches:
“שערות האשה הן פריצות וערוה ומרגילין את האדם להרהור ותאווה ”
“The hair of a married woman is considered immodest and ervah and incites a person to forbidden thoughts and desires”
The Chofetz Chaim wrote in numerous places in his sefer Geder Olam how the commandment of hair covering for a married woman is entirely based on modesty. (I highly recommend the sefer)
Rescue:
You’re right, women love to dress up. And they should dress up – in the house for their husbands only. We live in an upside down world where women dress up outside but in their homes they look like shmattas for their husbands. Women should wear their wigs at home to beautify themselves for their husbands (like they used to do in the times of the Gemara with a peah nachris) and outside wear cloth head coverings (so they look modest and married in front of other men). That is real tznius.
And for those women that say- Well I dress up outside for my husband because he likes me looking beautiful for the world too- this is forbidden (called Achashveirish syndrome). There is a heavy price to pay for this as quoted by the Chofetz Chaim, Sefer Geder Olam, Chapter 4:
“The Yetzer Hora should not mislead her that she will be saved from the punishment of Strict/Unmerciful law in thinking that she had to make herself pretty for the sake of her husband so that he wouldn’t dislike her, because truthfully this rationalization is a big mistake, since this excuse (beautifying herself to please her husband) is relevant only to the confines of her house but to a public environment…”Demoshe that’s a very cruel way to talk to someone. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean you have a right to be cruel and rude.
I guess your religion doesn’t =morality is showing through. Your a fruadMaking fun of someone in a cruel manner. Making fun of their belief system just because you disagree with it is very low morally corrupt behavior. They have a right to not believe what you believe and your allowed to disagree but perhaps you should think about the fact that your talking to a human being with feelings who takes his own “religion” as seriosly as you do your own.
To rescue
The woman said that the Rebbe is the “Son of G-d.” Should we show her respect for having a “slightly” different viewpoint than our own? Hell no. We can excuse her as being psychotic, but that’s about the best we can do. If you’re siding with her and against DaMoshe, then your religious beliefs are dubious to say the least. Perhaps you also agree with the Kofer Manis Friedman who said that G-d no longer punishes Jews because of the long, bitter Golus.
Baruch> You want to argue with Trumas Hadeshen? With the Gemara?
I don’t think your opponent said that the sefer is fake. But it is possible to bring some of the opinions, rather than a variety of different opinions. Especially, when the issue is so sensitive. So, the question for you is – are there are other opinions and how we see all of them in different context. For example, about 100 years ago, sheitels were not considered tzanua, just the opposite.
Qwerty613
It doesn’t matter what someone else believes you still need to treat them properly. Your using dogma as an excuse to bully which is showing that your entire uprining is a scam. Maybe practice what you and who you claim to representI’m not siding with her. I’m saying it’s ok to disagree but to outright bully someone _and_ justify yourself. Wow
Baruchlessin
Sorry but your trying to change nature and reality and that doesn’t work. When you go out do you dress up to resresent yourself properly. Do you dress your best when you leave your house and then come home and dress down cuz your comfortable. That’s how all humanity works. Men and woman. It’s not realistic to tell woman not to dress up when they go out. As dressing up is how a woman represents herself to the world and how she is also accepted and respected among her peers. Woman also do not dress up for men in this _very_ segregated socioty but they dress up to fit in with their peers which has very strict social rules and it you don’t measure up. Your barely treated like a human. So….I understand you have a belief system and it “should” be one way but your viewpoint is completely unrealistic.The ‘Rebbetzin Yehudit’ post is incoherent and contains over-the-top kefirah [son of —?!] and nonsense. Whoever posted it is either seriously disturbed or a troll trying to derail this thread. Does anyone notice this pattern of a troll (usually posing as a woman – ExShlucha etc.) posting hyper-Lubavitch nonsense, triggering a back-and-forth Chabad bashing thread that could last for months? Please do not go there again.
DaMoshe is completely on the mark, although I suspect that the ‘Rebbetzin” is really a troll trying to bait the usual suspects and start some ‘action’.
rescue, did I make fun of her? I asked some questions, related to her post. I didn’t say anything insulting.
“Yay, we have a new Chabad fanatic to discuss things with! This thread is about to get completely derailed.
Rebbetzin Yehudit Chana Chaya: why do you call the Luibavitcher Rebbe Hashem’s son, and with a capital S? Isn’t that a Christian belief? They believe Jesus was the son of God (obviously a huge error) – are you one of the Christian Chabadniks, who believes the Rebbe was divine, and you’re awaiting his second coming?”This is pure bullying. Stop lying to yourself
rescue, please explain how it’s bullying. I asked some questions. I said the thread would get derailed because it’s supposed to be about wigs, but I asked about her claim that the rebbe was Hashem’s son.
I think you’re just insecure.To DaMoshe
Don’t waste your time with that buffoon. He throws meaningless terms against the wall and hopes that something will stick. He obviously thinks that morality is defined by western values rather than the Torah and so there’s no getting through to him. Last year I brought up that Rav Aharon Feldman called Manis Friedman a Kofer for saying that any Jew can do any sin and face no punishment from Hashem. One of the posters on YWN had the nerve to say that Rabbi Feldman had no right to criticize that atheist unless he first called him to get a clarification as to what he meant. It’s crazy out there and getting crazier by the minute. Keep up the great work and ignore that pompous fool who deigns to pass judgment on others.
Are you slow?
Unfortunately your irredeemable and I feel sorry for you
And now rescue, who accused me of bullying, is insulting me, without giving any facts to back up his/her claims. Rescue, you’ve become exactly what you accused me of. Congratulations.
As for the Chabad heretic, I notice that she disappeared.I’m not being “pompous” by pointing out steieght up bullying. Querty calm down
If your post isn’t bullying and you have no grasp of what bullying is then my post isn’t bullying either. And you can’t call me out on it lol
I didn’t accuse you also. I showed you and you refuse to see reality for what it is. You refuse to see wrongdoing where wrongdoing accured and because of that I really feel deeply your an irredeemable person. You cannot help or redeem someone who is absolutely not willing to see wrong action for what it is and I feel very sorry for you. This may reflect on everyone badly too cuz if your like that I wonder if everyone else is like that too. Maybe read your own post again and see for yourself what real bullying is. The entire post was bullying. It wasn’t a “question” how many lies are you ganna spew till you wakeup
To DaMoshe
She showed up on a different thread. I agree with YYA that she should be ignored and that’s why I’m not challenging her. This is not to say that there aren’t Lubavichers who view the Rebbe as a deity. There certainly are.
“she showed up on a different thread” “she should be ignored”
Wow your just a bunch of rude people…wowTo rescue
How would you address someone who is saying that G-d fathered a child by the name of Schneersohn? Would you show the same courtesy for a Jew for Cheeses?
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