Shelo Asani Isha

Home Coffeeroom Bais Medrash Shelo Asani Isha

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 164 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #599472

    Peacemaker
    Member

    Why do men say a bracha of Shelo Asani Isha?

    #1050835

    deiyezooger
    Member

    Because as a man they are obligated in more mitzvos.

    #1050836

    adorable
    Participant

    if you would be a girl you would know why. we women have lots of pain and issues that we have to deal with. be happy you are spared.

    #1050837

    sam4321
    Participant

    Since if you were created a woman you would be mechuyv in less mitzvos.It has nothing to do with men being better or not.

    #1050839

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    You mean it seems redundant of shelo asani goy?

    #1050840

    oomis
    Participant

    I actually learned a very interesting piece of science regarding this bracha. At conception, all embryos are morphologically female. After 40 days (approximately six weeks), the Y chromosome in a male embryo kicks in, and the embryo becomes a male fetus. In an embryo that is supposed to be female, this change does not take place (obviously) and the embryo remains female.

    Although I wonder if the Chachomim were aware of this (I bet they were), the bracha being said by the male may be a show of Hakoras hatov of Hashem’s Greatness, that the change which was meant to take place DID in fact take place, and as a result Hashem did not make a (destined) male child, remain female, that He allowed the natural order to take place. We know that there are people with gender assignment issues, and perhaps it is due to something that goes wrong in this process. So it truly is a bracha worth making with real kavanah every day.

    #1050841

    deiyezooger
    Member

    “if you would be a girl you would know why. we women have lots of pain and issues that we have to deal with. be happy you are spared.”

    We don’t say a brachah about everything we don’t like to be like sick or poor. All three shelo asani’s are about being limited in doing mitzvos.

    #1050842

    yacr85
    Member

    “Peacemaker” Have you ever given birth?

    I haven’t either but from where I was standing for the birth of my two children, I was pretty happy it wasn’t me having the baby!

    Joking aside, it means whatever you want it to mean. Mitzvos, health, birth, etc,

    As my Chassan teacher told me, a woman’s body changes more in 30 days than a man’s does in 30 years!

    #1050843

    i never heard that before oomis

    i like it

    A LOT

    #1050844

    deiyezooger
    Member

    “i never heard that before oomis

    i like it

    A LOT”

    count me in…

    #1050845

    Queen Bee
    Member

    None of this answers why the bracha isn’t “Thank you for making me a man.” Why the negativity on the woman? I think that’s where the issue lies.

    #1050846

    truthsharer
    Member

    That is actually incorrect. The gender is determined at fertilization.

    The female egg comes in one variety, X. The male fuel comes in X or Y, and whichever one gets there first decides if there will be a kiddush or a bris.

    #1050847

    smartcookie
    Member

    Popa- I’m taking your post very personally.

    #1050848

    Sam2
    Participant

    The Gemara (I believe Eruvin 13b) says that human beings were better off not being created. Therefore, none of the Brachos start She’asani (She’asani Kirtzono is quite a discussion) because we cannot thank Hashem for actually creating us. We can only bless Him that once He created us, we were created in a fashion that has more opportunities to do Mitzvos.

    #1050849

    deiyezooger
    Member

    Queen Bee, Its a good question. The answer is that since Chaza”l say that “Noach lo ladam shelo nivrah” it would have been better for people not to have been created at all (according to the Maharsh”A its because there are only 248 positive mitzvos and 365 negative ones so its more likly to sin then to do mitzvos) one cannot say a bracha that he was created, one can only say a bracha that he was not created something alse.

    Thats also the reason we say shelo asani goy instead of saying shasi yisroel.

    #1050850

    Peacemaker
    Member

    Is not the implication of this bracha that it is better to be a man than to be a woman?

    #1050851

    kapusta
    Participant

    oomis, that was very nice. Thanks for sharing.

    *kapusta*

    #1050852

    Queen Bee
    Member

    Thanks for answering my question. I didn’t know that. It’s always great to learn new things 🙂

    #1050853

    oomis
    Participant

    That is actually incorrect”

    Not according to a geneticist I spoke to to confirm what I was being told. While you are correct that a fertilized egg is either male or female and the future gender is already determined at fertilization, the embryo nevertheless remains for all intents and purposes female in nature until around six weeks, when the Y chromosome “turns itself on.” If you know something the doc does not, I will stand corrected.

    #1050854

    sam4321
    Participant

    It is mashma from the Tur(46) that women themselves instituted the bracha.(v’nahagu ha’nashim).

    #1050855

    Haven’t heard this from anywhere, but maybe we are thanking Hashem for making us into men despite women being on a higher spiritual level. A bit like making a brocha Dayan Hoemes. (doesn’t work for the other sheloi osanis though!)

    #1050858

    Peacemaker
    Member

    Sam4321: Which women instituted it?

    #1050859

    Sam2
    Participant

    Can’t be. The Gemara (I believe in Shabbos but I am not sure where) says that the order is necessary because it goes from the lowest level to the highest. Shelo Asani Nochri, then Eved (who has partial Mitzvos) then Ishah (who has more Mitzvos, sort of).

    #1050860

    oot for life
    Participant

    oomis – thank you! you answered a question I had in the Gemara!

    In Brachos (Samech amud Alef) that from 3 until 40 days one should daven that it (the embryo) should be a boy.

    Knowing that gender was decided at conception I had did not know how to understand the gemara. Now I know, if it is supposed to be a male you must daven that everything forms correctly and it does not remain a female.

    Yasher Koach!

    #1050861

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Haven’t heard this from anywhere, but maybe we are thanking Hashem for making us into men despite women being on a higher spiritual level. A bit like making a brocha Dayan Hoemes. (doesn’t work for the other sheloi osanis though!)

    Sheasani K’Ritzono, and Abarbanel.

    #1050862

    kgh5771
    Participant

    oomis – Maybe that’s why the Gemara states that 40 days after conception does a Bat Kol come out from Shamayim and “Bat P’loni to P’loni”.

    ??? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????

    (Sotah 2.)

    40 days is approximately 6 weeks…

    #1050864

    Sam2
    Participant

    KGH: That Gemara (Sotah 2a, I believe) says 40 days before conception.

    #1050865

    sam4321
    Participant

    Peacemaker:

    I am not sure,I would guess the women of the time were noheg to say it,from the wording of the Tur.(do not take this a factual I am just speculating)

    #1050866

    Nechomah
    Participant

    Knowing that gender was decided at conception I had did not know how to understand the gemara. Now I know, if it is supposed to be a male you must daven that everything forms correctly and it does not remain a female.

    I learned at one point that when Leah was pregnant with Dina, she knew that the embryo was supposed to be a boy, but that would mean she would have 7 boys and Rochel would end up with only 1, less than even the Bilhah and Zilpah. She daavened that the baby should stay a girl so that her sister wouldn’t be considered lower than them.

    #1050867

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Why do men say a bracha of Shelo Asani Isha?

    Well, it would be pretty silly for women to say it.

    Why don’t men say “shelo asani k’rtzono”?

    #1050868

    oomis
    Participant

    oomis – thank you! you answered a question I had in the Gemara!

    In Brachos (Samech amud Alef) that from 3 until 40 days one should daven that it (the embryo) should be a boy.

    Knowing that gender was decided at conception I had did not know how to understand the gemara. Now I know, if it is supposed to be a male you must daven that everything forms correctly and it does not remain a female.

    Yasher Koach! ‘

    Thank you, but these are not my original thoughts. It is something I learned, and then actually confirmed with a genetics specialist. It answered the question of the bracha for me perfectly, and anyone to whom I have told this has always found it very interesting.

    My question on the separate brachos is why the need for two distinct brachos? Clearly Hashem creates EVERYTHING kirtzono.

    #1050869

    Sam2
    Participant

    I think I once saw somewhere that She’asani Kirtzono is a form of Tziduk Hadin. It is the only Bracha anyone ever says (I think; there’s a very strange Magen Avraham that disagrees with this but all the Acharonim jump on him for it) that is from after the time of the Amora’im, as far as I know.

    #1050870

    sam4321
    Participant

    Sam2: Its the Tur.

    #1050871

    avhaben
    Participant

    What is the relationship between the brochos of shelo asani goy, isha and eved?

    #1050872

    oomis
    Participant

    Each group is of a specific set of people who for various reasons are not mechuyav in all the mitzvos.

    #1050873

    147
    Participant

    Following my recent marriage to my wonderful wife, I recite “Shelo Assani Kohen” each & every day without any exceptions whatsoever.

    #1050874

    akuperma
    Participant

    Because we wrote the bracha. Frankly, Men have a good deal. We not only get lots of fun mitzvos the women don’t share, but to be honest, the whole business of life is having children, and I’ld say men have a good deal (details left out since this is a family website).

    #1050875

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    oomis, very interesting (your first post on this thread).

    #1050876

    2bshvat
    Participant

    I heard this from Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb:

    The morning brochos are not birchos hoda’ah, rather they are how we re-insert ourselves into creation each day. Man & woman were supposed to have been created according to Hashem’s desire, but Man did not achieve that level. That is why he needs so many mitzvos to perfect himself. When he introduces himself, it would be almost embarrassing to get up and say “Hello world, I’m Man”. The best he can say is, out of the 2, I’m not the Woman. (It’s more face-saving to say ‘I didn’t win’ rather than ‘I lost’). The Woman, on the other hand, does not need as many mitzvos because she came out at a level of perfection that lets her start each day with the declaration, “I am the one that was made according to the desire of Hashem”

    #1050877

    oomis
    Participant

    OOM, thanks, but it is not my own original thought. That is what I learned in school. And it is not my first post, btw. The following 2 things were posted by me a year ago, on this thread.

    1) “I actually learned a very interesting piece of science regarding this bracha. At conception, all embryos are morphologically female. After 40 days (approximately six weeks), the Y chromosome in a male embryo kicks in, and the embryo becomes a male fetus. In an embryo that is supposed to be female, this change does not take place (obviously) and the embryo remains female.

    Although I wonder if the Chachomim were aware of this (I bet they were), the bracha being said by the male may be a show of Hakoras hatov of Hashem’s Greatness, that the change which was meant to take place DID in fact take place, and as a result Hashem did not make a (destined) male child, remain female, that He allowed the natural order to take place. We know that there are people with gender assignment issues, and perhaps it is due to something that goes wrong in this process. So it truly is a bracha worth making with real kavanah every day. “

    (to which someone posted that I was factually incorrect, so I replied):

    2)”Not according to a geneticist I spoke to to confirm what I was being told. While you are correct that a fertilized egg is either male or female and the future gender is already determined at fertilization, the embryo nevertheless remains for all intents and purposes female in nature until around six weeks, when the Y chromosome “turns itself on.” If you know something the doc does not, I will stand corrected. “

    #1050878

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Yeah, I was referring to that post.

    #1050879

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    We sing it in my shul on simchas torah.

    Shelo asani isha, shelo asani isha, baruch hashem shelo asani isha…

    And the women sing shelo asani eved.

    And the avadim sing shelo asani goy.

    And the goyim sing sheasani kirtzono.

    Also, did you all notice what I posted a year ago:

    Why don’t men say “shelo asani k’rtzono”?

    #1050880

    shmoel
    Member

    I make all three brachos with a lot of Kavana with special appreciation to the Ribono Shel Olam for not making me a goy, isha or eved.

    #1050881

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I actually start with shelo asani Joseph. then I make shelo asani goyta. Then I make shelo asani goy. then shelo asani shifcha, then shelo asani eved. then shelo asani isha.

    #1050882

    Health
    Participant

    PBA -“Shelo asani isha, shelo asani isha, baruch hashem shelo asani isha…”

    You got weird songs in your shul. In my old shul the song went like this – Shelo Asani Goy, Shelo Asani Goy, B’H Shelo Asani Goy,

    Shelo Asani Fro, Shelo Asani Fro, B’H Shelo Asani Fro!

    #1050883

    Mayan_Dvash
    Member

    Shelo Asani Litvak. My own observations show me that Chassidim have natural simcha and the Litvaks I’ve seen over the last couple of days need alcohol to create for themselves an artificial simcha. just sayin…..

    #1050884

    oomis
    Participant

    Also, did you all notice what I posted a year ago:

    Why don’t men say “shelo asani k’rtzono”? “

    Because that makes absolutely zero sense, Pops!

    #1050885

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Shelo Asani Shvigger.

    It is reason enough to make a brocha every day.

    #1050886

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    And the atheists sing “shelo asani”.

    #1050887

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Because that makes absolutely zero sense, Pops!

    Shall I explain?

    I believe PBA is addressing the notion that “sheosani kirtzono” reflects a positive attibute of nashim, by pointing out that the converse would mean that men were not created kirtzono (which is, of course, absurd).

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 164 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending