December 2, 2021 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #2037311yehudis21Participant
Why do men say the bracha “Shelo asani isha”? I get it that it’s referring to the appreciation they have for the additional mitzvos they have as men, but then why not just say “She’asani ish?December 2, 2021 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #2037356
I’m assuming it’s because there was a discussion in the Gemara about whether or not it was better for man to have been born or to not be born. Ultimately, the consensus was that it would be better off for man to not be born and have to contend with the challenges of this world.
However, despite the inherent difficulties, we have to make the best of the situation and do as many mitzvos as possible. Therefore, men give thanks that they have more obligatory mitzvos than women, and women give thanks that they have more obligatory mitzvos than non-Jews and slaves.
To say “thank you for making me a man” would be to say that being put into a physical body is better than remaining in untainted spiritual form. And while everything Hashem does is truly good, no neshama really wants to come down to this world full of nisyonos. It’s very hard down here. So we bless Him for the opportunity to do the most mitzvos we can, without overplaying the fact that our lives are, in essence, are a difficult challenge for our souls.
These are my knee-jerk thoughts on the topic.December 2, 2021 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #2037406
The order of the brochos are all in the negative, shelo asani goy, eved, ishah – we could have said sheasani Yisroel (actually some nuschaos have such a bracha) and cover all three in one shot, but chazal (according to the accepted nusach) wanted us to thank Hashem individually for each advantage, much as they ordained for us to thank Hashem for every specific kind of food. That’s how we grow in hakaras hatov. The person making the bracha is going through all the alternatives in his head as he is increasing his hakaras hatov – thank you Hashem for not making me limited as a goy, limited as an eved, or as a woman… The main difference expressed here is the precious pursuit of Torah lishma. Women have to learn Torah more as a practical endeavor; to know what they can, have to, and are not allowed to do, to mold their minds according to Torah, to grow in yiras shomayim
…for men it’s all that, plus torah lishma, Torah for its own sake, to know the dvar Hashem and learn the depths of His wisdom.December 2, 2021 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #2037417
There is a midrash that says, when the Jews heard by Kabolas Hatorah Anochi Hashem Elokecha, they answered baruch shelo asani goy. Why did they not say sheasani yisrael? The commentaries question it should have said, I am Hashem your G-d who created you not taken out of mitzraim. As we said that it would have been easier not to be created. The Maharsha explains that there are 365 lo sasehs, negative mitzvos which would have been kept by not being created whereas there are only 248 asseis, positive mitzvos having the requirement to perform them physically, therefore more could have been accomplished by not being created.December 2, 2021 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #2037430n0mesorahParticipant
So one that never learns Torah, should omit how many blessings?December 2, 2021 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #2037475
וכי ברשיעי עסקינן?
וכי בשוטפני עסקינן?December 2, 2021 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #2037428
The gemora says that a wife protects the husband from adultery, so she says sheasani kirtzona, Hashem made me according to His will. When married, my existence becomes His will and girls are getting prepared for it.December 2, 2021 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #2037488
Besides the formal explanations, I think that men often define themselves by what they are against, what they are overcoming, how they are different from the other guy. Who is alpha, beta,
.. omicron… women seem to be happier with what they are and thus deserve a positive brochaDecember 2, 2021 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #2037493ymribiatParticipant
Here’s a better question. Men were made first, then women were taken from men and formed into women.
So shouldnt the ברכות be the opposite? Since men were the “original model”, should they say “who made me according to His will”? And women, who weren’t made in the original form and likeness, should nevertheless give thanks that they were made, even though it wasnt as a man?December 2, 2021 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #2037533
Only you and Reb E are focusing on who is omicron. Anything to keep the machlokes alive it seems.December 2, 2021 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #2037534
As is well known, some of the popular frum singers have made albums that include a song “shelo asani goy”. Very nice. But why have none of them included a song shelo asani isha?
If anyone can give me a coherent, intellectual, non-emotional response to that question as to why one is okay/appropriate/proper whereas the other is not, I would most appreciate it.December 2, 2021 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #2037542
The man was created to do mitzvos as the other brochos reflect but the woman was created for the benefit of the man to protect him from the yetzer hara and to have children. The Sefer Peninim Yekorim explains that by the Yofas Toar, Rashi says that the Torah is ‘only’ talking against the yetzer hara and not saying that the Torah is talking against the yetzer hara. As having children does not apply as the Yofas Toar will give birth to a ben sorer umoreh, who revolts against the parents, so the only reason to marry her is to protect him from the yetzer hara.December 2, 2021 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #2037547
Ymribiat; at first Hashem made adam with his feminine counterpart in one body; that was the ideal. Then she became corrupt, and separated. Hashem then made chava from adam.
Sheasani kirtzono can be explained two ways; one is that they are closer to the perfect ideal of ratzon Hashem, and the other is that it’s a modest acceptance of their lot in life. The second pshat isn’t as popular.December 2, 2021 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #2037559
Reb E, that’s a really nice pshat in kirtzono; that her existence is a shtik ratzon Hashem because she saves her husband from cheit. The cheit though is technically not adultery, it’s znus, but very good pshat nonethelessDecember 2, 2021 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #2037578TS BaumParticipant
@Always Ask Questions
That seems to be a very biased opinion that doesn’t have any real basis in facts. Feelings are feelings. But the fact is Men don’t look at what they don’t have more than women. Where did you get your facts from?December 3, 2021 9:37 am at 9:37 am #2037665
I heard once from the badchen Rav Yaakov Miller Shlita to explain the passage in Aishes Chayil. It says
פיה פתחה בחכמה, she opens her mouth in wisdom ותורת חסד על לשונה as Torah of favor is on her tongue.
The man has a mitzva to know the logic of Torah, so the yetzer hara interferes in its accomplishment.
So. he cannot start with wisdom but with sharp funny insights into Torah. However, the woman has no direct mitzva to learn Torah but only to know how to perform her obligations to do her mitzvos. Her learning is a favor to Hashem and thereby there is no yetzer hara to interfere in her learning. She can directly, in mitzvos she is responsible, start with learning the wisdom of Torah.December 3, 2021 11:23 am at 11:23 am #2037411
Does anyone have a response to my above question? Or, perhaps, there’s no PC response.December 3, 2021 11:24 am at 11:24 am #2037688
Novelty: Does a servant skip shelo asani eved but still say shelo asani goy?December 3, 2021 11:28 am at 11:28 am #2037694akupermaParticipant
Pilpul aside, the “folk” explanation is that to a man the hardest part of becoming a father is to sponsor a kiddush and/or a Shalom Zachar, as opposed to what a woman has to do to become a mother (and remember that until recently, the chance of a woman surviving childbirth was similar to the chance of a soldier surviving a war). All the proper explanations pertaining to men have more mitsvos would sound better if being male didn’t make for a much easier life.December 3, 2021 11:57 am at 11:57 am #2037737
Syag> Only you and Reb E
thanks for putting me in a good company. I presume RebE is too nice to object.December 4, 2021 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #2037922
ujm: No clue. Practically speaking, there aren’t many slaves around these days, so no clue what the practical halacha is…December 5, 2021 3:18 am at 3:18 am #2037983GadolhadorahParticipant
Reb E: You were fortunate to have heard a vert directly from R’ Miller. I was not familiar with him so I found several videos of his presentations on YouTube. The most memorable was where he was saying the Badchunes at a shevah barachos for the grandson of Rav Chaim Kanyevsky. Never have I seen 20 minutes of R’ Chaim sitting at the dais laughing almost non-stop along with the other guests to a brilliant exposition of divrei torah presented with skillful humor with an Ungarishe nusuach.December 5, 2021 3:29 am at 3:29 am #2037990
Ujm, what about you creating a “shelloy usani isha” song that will inspire the tens of thousands of frum men (and women as well). We are all waiting for your song. Please post here as soon as you know the date of the song’s release to the public so that we can get it as soon as it’s available.December 5, 2021 3:31 am at 3:31 am #2037992BenephraimParticipant
BTW the same type of question is asked about the korban pesach where its identity is based on what it is not. So there is a precedent for that type of identification. A גר צדק also says שעשני כרצונו and that is why some gerim are uncomfortable saying brachot out loud.December 5, 2021 3:31 am at 3:31 am #2037997☕️coffee addictParticipant
Wouldn’t they want women to sing their song too (or at least to object to a man singing it)?December 5, 2021 8:54 am at 8:54 am #2038025
Philosopher: Is one Brocha that Hashem gave us inspiring while another Brocha that Hashem gave us not inspiring?December 5, 2021 9:40 am at 9:40 am #2038078
CA: 1. Kol Isha would preclude them singing it in public. In private, they can sing any other song; there’s no issue if there’s one song that isn’t relevant to them. 2. Why would anyone object to a man singing a Brocha that he makes seven days a week? It wouldn’t be any different than singing any other Brocha that is used as a song.December 5, 2021 9:42 am at 9:42 am #2038084
AAQ – object to what? Noticing?December 5, 2021 9:42 am at 9:42 am #2038085
It’s painful to watch how hard joe works to get reactions from these threads. If you really want to have a positive affect on the misguided modern thinkers give a shiur or join an organization that respectfully teaches and guides them to where they err. Write a blog that enlightens people and helps them see the timeline. Make a youtube q and a that isn’t anonymous that respectfully addresses the ideas and halachos that have evolved incorrectly per our mesorah. Shooting darts at people has never been effective, nor is it inspiring and it reinforces false stereotypes. Your (previously stated) rationalization of such behavior only proves you fall for the same excuses they fall for.December 5, 2021 10:42 am at 10:42 am #2038101
Ultimately, the consensus was that it would be better off for man to not be born and have to contend with the challenges of this world.
Not better, ch”v. Easier.
Nevertheless, good pshat.December 5, 2021 10:45 am at 10:45 am #2038103
As is well known, some of the popular frum singers have made albums that include a song “shelo asani goy”. Very nice. But why have none of them included a song shelo asani isha?
Why make a song which only applies to half of the population when you can make one which applies to everyone?
If you were truly curious, rather than trying to offend, you would have asked about שלא עשני עבד as well.December 5, 2021 10:46 am at 10:46 am #2038104
Philosopher: Is one Brocha that Hashem gave us inspiring while another Brocha that Hashem gave us not inspiring?
Good point. I suppose the next big hit by Shwekey will be “על פדיון פטר חמור”.December 5, 2021 11:13 am at 11:13 am #2038117
Ujm, of course one bracha is not more inspiring than another. Therefore I believe it is actually a chiyuv for you to release a shello asuni Isha song that will inspire us all. I will purchase the song the minute I know that it’s available.December 5, 2021 12:52 pm at 12:52 pm #2038133
GH, speaking of youtube, if you search there for lipa macarena, you can hear Lipa Schmeltzer singing at their wedding to my son, Dovi and his kallah, Gabriella Eishes Chayil 11 years ago for the Mitzva Tanz.December 5, 2021 12:52 pm at 12:52 pm #2038128
GH, my father z’l was involved to help emigrate families from Hungary, so he helped the Miller family to leave Hungary and we ended up in a DP camp together in Austria.December 5, 2021 12:52 pm at 12:52 pm #2038124
“Why make a song which only applies to half of the population when you can make one which applies to everyone?”
The singers make songs regarding the Kehuna. And Kohanim represent much less than half the population. Making a song applicable to a subset, in no way precludes making songs for other subsets or songs which applies to all.
“rather than trying to offend”
Your implication is that the Brocha is offensive.
“you would have asked about שלא עשני עבד as well.”
I could have. But I only needed one example. There was no need to make the same point twice. Would you, similarly, view asking about שלא עשני עבד as being offensive to עבדים?December 5, 2021 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #2038123
DaasYochid, you never know….they have inspirational songs about our hands being clean from stealing and many other interesting choice of topics for songs, why not about על פדיון פטר חמור? 😏December 5, 2021 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #2038182
Daas Yochid, I stand corrected. Thank you!December 10, 2021 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #2040233HaLeiViParticipant
I find it odd that people are triggered by this Bracha, when it’s actually a recognition of the hardships of being a woman. It’s the most ‘woke’ Brachah, and likely the earliest record of such sentiment.December 10, 2021 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #2040318
HaLeivi, I think people are “triggered” by the differences themselves in the time of “equality”.December 10, 2021 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #2040326
HaLeiVi, Why would it trigger anyone even that Rambam and the meforshim explain the Brocha as being because men are holier? Other groups are described as holier (Kohanim, Talmidei Chachomim, etc.) and, yet, the leftists don’t raise heckles so much about non-gender demographics being described as better in certain ways.December 10, 2021 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #2040324
Feminisim is, at its core, the most denigrating movement to women.
It’s all about proving that women are as good as men. It’s about out-manning the man.
In other words, it says feminity is not something worthy in its own right. Feminism seeks to break down the divide between the genders, not celebrate them.
It’s a tragedy that has even seeped into our communities.
And I say this as a woman.December 11, 2021 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #2040547
A Yisroel needs to give kovod and honor a Kohen by according him service first, allowing the Kohen to go in front of a Yisroel and generally honoring the Kohen with kibudim before a Yisroel. The same principle applies regarding the Hamon Hoam honoring Talmidei Chachomim first and allowing him to go first; and the same applies regarding women honoring men and allowing him to go first.December 12, 2021 12:00 am at 12:00 am #2040548
.December 12, 2021 12:05 am at 12:05 am #2040570
This is Rav Moshe’s view but the Kol Bo says that women are patur of time dependent commandments as their first responsibility is to their husband and family.December 12, 2021 12:21 am at 12:21 am #2040571
Ujm, where does the rambam or anyone else say that the brocho is because men are holier than women? Many seforim say the exact opposite, that women are on a higher spiritual level than men and don’t require the same mitzvos.
Also, we don’t find that there’s a kadima of men/women the same way we do with kohanim. Kohanim get manah yafah, the first and best choice of food, they are not supposed to serve us or dl favors for us, and other things of that nature, but if a man and woman are being given food in a line, there is no din that a man comes first.
The only time we find such a kadima, to my knowledge, is by pikuach nefesh, where fhe sum of mitzvos requires a kadima.December 12, 2021 12:59 am at 12:59 am #2040594
Avira, going from memory, the Rambam says they’re holier when he writes about the halacha you referred to — kadima by pekuach nefesh. Also see the Maharal, Gur Aryeh, Vayikra 12:2, beginning of parshas Tazriah, where he writes men are more chashuv and the Tiferes Yisroel 4 and 28 where he says theyare on a higher spiritual level (the opposite of what you asserted) and have more chochma. This same idea about spiritual level, made either explicitly or implicitly, can be found in the following sources: Rambam, Mishnah Horarios 3:7; Tur, Orach Chaim 46; Akeidas Yitzchak, Bereishis 6; Bartenura, Mishnah Horarios 3:7; Taz, Orach Chaim 46; Zies Ra’anan (Magen Avraham), Yalkut Shemoni, Shmuel 1:1; Vilna Gaon, Even Shelaima 1:8; Baal Shevet Musar, Midrash Talpiyos, Ohs Aleph, Anaf Isha; Rav Tzadock Rabinowitz, Dover Tzedeck, p. 119; R’ Avraham Yitzchak Kook, Olas Re’iah, Birchos Hashachar; R’ Moshe Feinstein, Igoros Moshe, Orach Chaim IV, 49; R’ Joseph B. Soloveitchik, Man of Faith in the Modern World, p. 84; Lubavitcher Rebbe, Sichos in English, Iyar-Tammuz 5744, Vol. 21, pp. 69-72; R’ Avigdor Miller, Rabbi Avigdor Miller Speaks, pp. 245-246.December 12, 2021 1:42 am at 1:42 am #2040623HaLeiViParticipant
Oh my. So this is what you’ve been holding in?? I’m glad you got that out. I hope you are much more relaxed now, Your Maleness.December 12, 2021 10:41 am at 10:41 am #2040676
The Rambam’s view by kadima is not because of holiness but because of the number of mitzvos. Rav Moshe ztz’l paskens because of holiness.December 12, 2021 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #2040762
Reb Eliezer, Rambam Horiyos 3:7
האיש קודם לאשה וכו’: כבר ידעת שהמצות כולם חייבין בהן הזכרים והנקבות בקצתם כמו שנתבאר בקידושין והוא מקודש ממנה ולפיכך קודם להחיות
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