March 8, 2013 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #608521SeahorseMember
When I was dating, I was so freaked out by all this “shidduch crisis” talk. I mean, why are we doing this to young women? Isn’t it scary enough to find one’s life partner? Why do we need to scare them even more? Hashem is running the show and all we have to do is trust Him. If we want to get married, we must put in the work on ourselves and in having faith that Hashem will help us when the time is right just like He has been doing for millions of years. To the young girls out there – if you want a perfect man, work on yourselves! Don’t let anyone, especially the shadchans or men, make you feel anything less than wonderful! Go out there with your heads high and pray, learn Torah, and do mitzvot. Being single is ok, and enjoy this time, and when the time is right, and you work WITH HAshem, you will find the one. I did. And my one regret is not having enough faith in G-d to not buy into this whole “Crisis” lie that was being splashed all around the internet. Also, if you are a Shadchan – please NEVER tell a girl she is old!!!!!! What are you thinking? Be EXTRA sensitive, not less! Do your hardest to help build a girl’s confidence. That is your responsibility. If a girl did not attend seminary or grow up in a way YOU see fit, hold your judgement, and help them anyway! Only G-d should judge. And to the daters out there – look for someone with a beautiful soul, and you will never regret it.
Thank you. G-d bless.March 8, 2013 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #935354popa_bar_abbaParticipant
(no longer cares about the girls left behind still single)March 8, 2013 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #935355SeahorseMember
That’s what you got from my post? lolMarch 8, 2013 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #935356Torah613TorahParticipant
Don’t like don’t read.
For heaven’s sakes people, being single and over 18 is not such a terrible state that people need to be super sensitive about. You can totally call me old if you want. I am serving Hashem and living a rewarding life and very happy, and will get married at the right time, which hopefully will be soon so I can serve Hashem better.
Worrying about it now is totally useless. Have some chocolate instead. And do your hishtadlus, but reasonably.
Maybe when I’m really an older single my mind will change. Maybe I’ll let you know.
I hope to marry someone who doesn’t think it’s terrible that I am happy and have the attitude that if Hashem put me here, I am meant to make the most of it.
/end rantMarch 8, 2013 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #935357squeakParticipant
Popa wins. He may not be right, but he wins this one.March 8, 2013 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #935358shnitzyMember
Hear hearMarch 8, 2013 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #935359arcParticipant
What PBA said.January 14, 2019 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #1662122LOTR92Participant
😉January 14, 2019 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1662164lowerourtuition11210Participant
Lotr92: any reason for the bump.January 14, 2019 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1662245
Worrying about it now is totally useless. Have some chocolate instead.
Too much chocolate is what caused the shidduch crisis in the first place.January 14, 2019 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #1662504👑RebYidd23Participant
Too much worrying is what caused the shidduch crisis.January 14, 2019 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #1662551HaimyParticipant
Suddenly once you’re married the crisis is over. 1-2000 girls over the age of thirty is a serious communal problem. They’re tired of “enjoying” their singlehood & would like to move on with their lives. Calling it a “Crisis ” is just a way to motivate people to try to ease the plight of these girls. If you have a better way to help the situation please tell us.
It’s an Es tzora for klall Yisroel when 1000’s of frum girls are remaining single.January 14, 2019 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #1662594akupermaParticipant
It’s real to the people looking for shidduchim.
Always has been that’s way.
Then they get married.
And produce the next generation, which grows up and has a shidduch crisis (see first line)
Exception to the above loop: Adam ha-Rishon has a real problem finding a shidduch and needed divine intervention and some really complicated surgery.January 14, 2019 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1662578
Its only a “crisis” for shadchanim without successful shidduchim.January 14, 2019 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1662620
GH, no rachamanus for singles who can’t find a shidduch?January 14, 2019 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #1662624
DY….agreed in some cases but the term “crisis” is now used in a mindess way in relation to young men and women in their 20s who haven’t yet married. The stress and pressure makes them feel like damaged goods.January 14, 2019 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #1662640
If they’re under stress and pressure, why is it mindless to want to find a solution?January 14, 2019 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #1662641
And how about the singles in their 30’s and 40’s?January 14, 2019 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #1662647Sam KleinParticipant
If klal Yisroel would stop turning to human shadchanim and rebbes etc….. And instead turn straight to Hashem from their open hearts and show their faith and trust in Hashem then Hashem would send them their zivug at the right time and no one would be worried or stressed about being single.
Make for yourself a daily learning Seder of sefer chovos Halevovos (duties of the heart) also printed in English and change your life to a worry-free life filled with ONLY happiness 24-7January 14, 2019 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #1662649
Gadol: I agree that the word crisis is overused, but I’m not entirely sure you understand what it refers to here. I don’t want to be presumptuous, but judging from the CR alone, it’s probably not something so applicable to your community.
It refers specifically to a problem in communities that marry men off to women several years younger. This produces a mathematically-provable certainty that there will be single women leftover in any growing population (which the charedi population is). Having emunah is one thing, but claiming that a room of say 50 men and 100 women could produce no singles with no polygamy is not emunah, it’s just shtuyot.January 14, 2019 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #1662656
Neville: Why do you assume there’s no average age gap in GHD’s community? Other than Chasidim, who generally make matches of the same age couples, all other communities have an average martial age gap. Including by the MO at least as much as by the Litvish.January 14, 2019 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #1662660
DY….the stress on young frum women is to a large extent the outcome of the self-imposed expectation that if you are not married by XX years (depending on the specific community) it is indicative of some “flaw” in your appearence, behavior, intellect etc. and this kind of damaged goods mentality becomes a self-fulfilling reality.January 14, 2019 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #1662678
Gadolhadorah- bingoJanuary 15, 2019 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1662680
“this kind of damaged goods mentality becomes a self-fulfilling reality.”
It doesn’t matter how true or false what you’re saying is. You could treat the girls like royalty and tell them to never stress about marriage and it wouldn’t make any difference. As long as there is an age gap and a growing population, there will be a shidduch crisis. I’m not defending the problem you’re describing, but you seem to be totally swearing off the reality as thought it’s brought about by emotions and social shaming, which is completely reductionist. Making the girls accept their loneliness is not the answer. We have made a society that forces a growing percentage of the female population into a lifetime of singleness. If anything, they should be more loud and emotional about how they feel about the situation.
Joseph: “Including by the MO at least as much as by the Litvish.”
Are there statistics that show the MO age gap is just as bad, on average, as the yeshivish? I find that dubious just from anecdotal evidence, but it could be true. Either way, their population isn’t growing nearly as fast, so it wouldn’t be as noticeable.January 15, 2019 6:37 am at 6:37 am #1662696
Neville: There’s no statistics for the Litvaks either. Statistics equally don’t exist for MO, Litvaks or Chasidim.
The population having a smaller growth rate may mean it isn’t as noticable, but proportionally it is equally as applicable.
Why in the world would you assume the MO might have a smaller age gap than the Litvaks? The MO date on their own; Litvaks through shadchanim. Guys picking their own girls will generally pick younger girls.
BTW, the age gap exists by the goyim too.January 15, 2019 6:44 am at 6:44 am #1662723Sam KleinParticipant
We are put into this world to go through nisyonos (tests from Hashem) of faith. And every test a person passes brings him/her to another test and raises the person higher up and brings the person closer to Hashem. Our forefather Avraham went through 10 tests, one of them including killing his very own beloved son. One fact every person knows about this is “if a person couldn’t pass the test then Hashem wouldn’t put him into this test/situation so no One could ask Hashem why am I in this situation?
WHEN A PERSON TAKES THIS ALL INTO CONSIDERATION THEN THIS ENTIRE SHIDDUCH SITUATION AND TEST IS ALL NOTHING AND THE PERSON KNOWS WHEN THE RIGHT TIME COMES, HASHEM WILL SEND HIS/HER ZIVUG TO THEM. AND THE PERSON IS ALWAYS HAPPY WITH NO WORRIES
may we all come to this realization and put our trust in Hashem directly and then Hashem with me help all of us directlyJanuary 15, 2019 8:16 am at 8:16 am #1662704AriLyons1Participant
There’s a very simple way to solve the shidduch crisis. Create venues for Boys & Girls to meet. Until we put “nature” back into the picture the crisis will never be solved.January 15, 2019 8:25 am at 8:25 am #1662740
Ari: That’s a load of bunk.January 15, 2019 8:25 am at 8:25 am #1662741
There’s a very simple way to solve the shidduch crisis. Create venues for Boys & Girls to meet. Until we put “nature” back into the picture the crisis will never be solved.
Venues? You mean like lounges?January 15, 2019 8:28 am at 8:28 am #1662745
That’s a load of bunk.
You don’t think we need more lounges?January 15, 2019 10:43 am at 10:43 am #1662856Mom-O-TParticipant
AriLyons1 there are two ways to Understand your offer:
The first is that Hashem has put an idea into your head to try and find a solution to the fact that there are an abundance of singles in the Jewish community at large. (Notice I did not write “Shidduch Crisis”)
The second is that you have ignored the message being sent here that all is in the hands of Hashem and YOU think that YOU can solve the problem on YOUR own.January 15, 2019 10:50 am at 10:50 am #1662822
“HASHEM WILL SEND HIS/HER ZIVUG TO THEM. AND THE PERSON IS ALWAYS HAPPY WITH NO WORRIES”
OK, so let me give you a test at risk of being accused of being a total kofer. You have a room of 50 boys and 60 girls. How do they all get married without 10 single girls leftover?
There are more girls in a later generation than there are boys in an earlier one; that’s just fact when you have a growing population. This is what those of you in denial do: to compensate for your embarrassing lack of understanding of basic statistics, you imply that everyone who sees the reality doesn’t have enough emuna. I presume that includes the victims of the shidduch crisis whom you obviously don’t care about because they just get in the way of your denial.January 15, 2019 10:50 am at 10:50 am #1662851MammeleParticipant
The MO have more older singles from both genders. So even if there’s an age gap, it wouldn’t be as noticeable, or “the issue”. The issue for many of them is, and correct me if I’m wrong, singles too busy to get married, and not motivated enough to find a life partner to settle down with. Unless we do real studies, only once most 20-30 year olds are married can we get a better picture of what percentage of each gender the remaining “pool” consists of.
Of course I’m generalizing here, so I may get a beating for my statement. Here’s the disclaimer: there are many exceptions, and the more religious ones likely get married sooner.January 15, 2019 10:57 am at 10:57 am #1662877
and then Hashem with me help all of us directly
I hope that was a typoJanuary 15, 2019 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1662904HaimyParticipant
We have a boys to girls ratio crisis which leads to many girls remaining single. The boys are doing great. They have long lists of girls to choose from & they can ask for as much support as they want for willing to marry someone.
Bitochon doesn’t apply to maasei nissim. We can’t expect Hashem to rain down 1000 boys from heaven to marry all the single girls over 30. We need to change the communal structure so that the boy/girl ratio is more even so we don’t end up with a bigger problem down the road.January 15, 2019 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #1662924
OK, so let me give you a test at risk of being accused of being a total kofer. You have a room of 50 boys and 60 girls. How do they all get married without 10 single girls leftover?
its not kefira, it’s just silly. the world isn’t a room. and nobody (and I mean that literally) knows how many girls or boys there are in the pool. your designation of a number is arbitrary whether you like it or not.
This is what those of you in denial do: to compensate for your embarrassing lack of understanding of basic statistics, you imply that everyone who sees the reality doesn’t have enough emuna.
This is what those of you who aren’t interested in acknowledging or putting the effort into changing the damage self-absorption and poor priorities in lifehas wrought on this generation, you imply that anyone who is willing to face the painful reality is lacking an understanding of basic statistics.
I presume that includes the victims of the shidduch crisis whom you obviously don’t care about because they just get in the way of your denial.
that’s just too disgusting of a comment to even give answer to.January 15, 2019 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1662999PhilParticipant
“Ari: That’s a load of bunk”
No, it’s not. Rabbi Pesach Krohn has been advocating publicly in his lectures for the past few years that people invite older single boys and girls to their Shabbos tables so that they can meet.
You may not like it but he actually consults regularly with Da’as Torah and truly loves every Jew. Can we say the same about you?January 15, 2019 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #1662996
“you imply that anyone who is willing to face the painful reality”
So, those of us who admit that the shidduch crisis is real are “not willing to face the painful reality?” One simple question, what do you think we would have to gain by spreading a rumor that there’s a shidduch crisis? Who would benefit from this giant conspiracy and how?
“the world isn’t a room”
It’s called an analogy…
” your designation of a number is arbitrary whether you like it or not.”
Obviously it was arbitrary. The point has nothing to do with which numbers are chosen. The point is that, with population growth, the number of people born in say 2018 will exceed the number born in 2014. You can’t possibly deny this unless you’re delusional. You can whine about a generation’s self-absorption all you want, but it isn’t going to make males spawn out of nowhere. The only solution is to stop marrying at an age gap.
“that’s just too disgusting of a comment to even give answer to.”
If you deny the entire issue, then how can you claim to care about the victims? Would it be disgusting to say a Holocaust denier doesn’t care about Holocaust victims? You won’t respond because you can’t. You’re couching your inability to counter the argument behind a moral superiority complex, and it’s not working.January 15, 2019 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #1663006
Woah, Chill out buddy! Either put down the machine gun and have a conversation, or find someone else to bark at. Im happy to exchange opinions with you but im not interested in being bulldozed.
Your choiceJanuary 15, 2019 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1663010
” Im happy to exchange opinions with you”
“Either put down the machine gun and have a conversation”
What would you like me to say, in your ideal world? You are claiming to sympathize with victims of a phenomenon that you don’t believe exists, which is impossible to do. You are claiming that you can have population growth without latter generations being more populated than former, which is impossible. This isn’t about “opinions.” If somebody came along and said “1+1=5, and anyone who says otherwise has no emunah,” that’s not called an opinion; that’s just called being wrong. If you spout stuff that is factually incorrect, you can’t just claim persecution when people call you out on it.January 15, 2019 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #1663015
enjoy your bone. maybe next time….January 15, 2019 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #1663021
Aaaand, there it is. Your predictable catch-all response any time someone makes a point to which you don’t know how to respond. You have no way to debunking the facts, so you just make petty attempts to appear to maintain the moral high-ground. Do you really think anyone doesn’t see through this charade?
As far as I’m concerned, you’re no batter than a common internet troll in this context. You come in and make baseless claims contrary to reality, and then pretend you have no responsibility to back the claims up because your on an enlightened-plane above everyone else.January 15, 2019 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #1663069Avram in MDParticipant
“You have a room of 50 boys and 60 girls. How do they all get married without 10 single girls leftover?”
“There are more girls in a later generation than there are boys in an earlier one; that’s just fact when you have a growing population. This is what those of you in denial do: to compensate for your embarrassing lack of understanding of basic statistics”
You set up 50 boys and 60 girls as an illustration of the shidduch crisis, and then lectured Syag that she doesn’t understand basic statistics? Lolol. The typical age gap in marriage is not 40 years. Sure an age gap in marriage in an increasing population is one potential factor at play, but I seriously doubt that it is anywhere near the primary driver for the larger number of single women. And to focus exclusively on it causes you to ignore other factors that may be more impactful.January 15, 2019 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1663072
the only troll here is you, trying to lure me into a fight by calling me names and accusing me of catch all responses and obnoxious behavior with no basis. Okay, you win. I mean, what can be so bad about getting punched in the face by a bully? Yes, I do find your insults painful on a personal level, so you win. As for the answers that you accused me of not having, when you doubtfully won’t even bother processing with all that smoke pouring out of your ears…
tbcJanuary 15, 2019 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1663076
Here’s your first rant. I’ll respond as if you are actually listening –
So, those of us who admit that the shidduch crisis is real are “not willing to face the painful reality?”
you cut me off in mid sentence. I said those who are not willing to face the painful reality of it being in our court, and not about numbers.
One simple question, what do you think we would have to gain by spreading a rumor that there’s a shidduch crisis? Who would benefit from this giant conspiracy and how?
I didn’t say anyone was spreading rumors about a shidduch crisis. I just said it isn’t about that specific number theory. I was pretty clear I expressed that there was a problem, I was just silly to think I could hold of a different one than you see.
It’s called an analogy…
obviously. I just don’t think it’s a good analogy as I made pretty clear in my next comment that nobody knows how many people are actually in the dating pool (as a whole) so we can’t say we know the numbers are off.
Obviously it was arbitrary. The point has nothing to do with which numbers are chosen. The point is that, with population growth, the number of people born in say 2018 will exceed the number born in 2014. You can’t possibly deny this unless you’re delusional.
Thank you for you calm and rational viewpoint. I guess that would make all others null and void?
I am well aware of what population growth means. I just happen to have a different view of whether or not that would affect shidduchim. I am not convinced all 21 year olds marry all 23 year olds and I am not convinced all females born frum in 1984 grow up at all, let alone frum. There are other views on this. I hope that is okay with you.
You can whine about a generation’s self-absorption all you want, but it isn’t going to make males spawn out of nowhere.
I wasn’t whining about the generations self-absorption. I was telling you that that has more to do with the number of unmarried people than saying Gd forgot to send down more males. It’s a valid and differing view point. I hope that’s okay.
The only solution is to stop marrying at an age gap.
If you deny the entire issue, then how can you claim to care about the victims?
I never denied the issue of there being many unmarried people. I denied it being the numbers/age gap or whatever you want to call it theory. Had you read what I wrote instead of what you thought I wrote you would have seen that.
Would it be disgusting to say a Holocaust denier doesn’t care about Holocaust victims?
No. But that has nothing to do with this conversation. I never denied that there are far too many singles. That was your mental leap.
You won’t respond because you can’t.
No, I didn’t want to respond because I felt like crying after being berated by you and don’t enjoy confrontations. Why the heck would I want to respond to someone who spits bullets at me for having a different opinion about the CAUSE of the shidduch problem and calls me names, accuses me of dumb things and CLEARLY didn’t bother reading my post.
You’re couching your inability to counter the argument behind a moral superiority complex, and it’s not working.
I don’t have a moral superiority complex, I just have a very weak composition
I hope all these answers make your day. And if I was a troll, it sure as heck beats being a bully.January 15, 2019 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #1663077
woops, I forgot you had another post. If I leave this undissected Gd only knows what you might accuse me of…
What would you like me to say, in your ideal world? You are claiming to sympathize with victims of a phenomenon that you don’t believe exists, which is impossible to do.
still can’t figure out how you equate not thinking the number theory is true and not believing that there are too many single girls. Nothing I said supports that.
You are claiming that you can have population growth without latter generations being more populated than former, which is impossible.
no I didn’t
This isn’t about “opinions.”
actually, it is. We each have an opinion about the reason there are so many people still single at older and older ages.
If somebody came along and said “1+1=5, and anyone who says otherwise has no emunah,” that’s not called an opinion; that’s just called being wrong.
not remotely related to anything I said
If you spout stuff that is factually incorrect, you can’t just claim persecution when people call you out on it.
You made that up too.January 15, 2019 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #1663100
Sure an age gap in marriage in an increasing population is one potential factor at play, but I seriously doubt that it is anywhere near the primary driver for the larger number of single women.
Why wouldn’t it be? What would be a bigger factor?January 15, 2019 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #1663098
You set up 50 boys and 60 girls as an illustration of the shidduch crisis, and then lectured Syag that she doesn’t understand basic statistics? Lolol. The typical age gap in marriage is not 40 years.
Are those 110 singles in the room the age at which they and their friends are starting shidduchim, or are most of their peers already married?January 16, 2019 8:15 am at 8:15 am #1663250frummy in the tummyParticipant
“The population having a smaller growth rate may mean it isn’t as noticable, but proportionally it is equally as applicable.”
I am not agreeing/arguing with any of your other points, but mathematically, this bothered me. Assuming the “crisis” is attributable to growth rate alone, proportionality among communities would only hold if growth rates are the same. Population size does not affect proportionality, but growth rate does.
As a simplified example, if Community A has a 2%/year growth rate and an average marriage gap of 3 years, the pool of single women would be about 6.1% larger than the pool of single men (1.02^3 – 1). From the other perspective, that makes the population of single men about 5.8% smaller than the population of single men (1 – 1/(6.1%)), meaning that every 100 single women in Community A have about 94 single men to match with.
If Community B has 8%/year growth rate and an average marriage gap of 3 years, the population of single women would be about 26% larger than the population of single men, so the population of men would be about 20.6% of the population of women. Every 100 single women in Community B would have only 79 men to match with them.
Again, I do not have enough evidence to say anything about the either the actual cause of the “crisis” or actual growth rates within any one community (I can’t imagine many communities in the world grow by 8%/year), but the size of the growth rate within a community very much affects the relative impact on each individual single woman, as demonstrated above.January 16, 2019 8:26 am at 8:26 am #1663253
Assuming the “crisis” is attributable to growth rate alone
Not alone, combined with age gap.
I don’t think you’re actually arguing, I think he didn’t mean “proportionally” the way you think he did.
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