January 16, 2019 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #1663408Takes2-2tangoParticipant
There’s a very simple way to solve the shidduch crisis. Create venues for Boys & Girls to meet. Until we put “nature” back into the picture the crisis will never be solved.
You Hit the bail on the head.
In theory it can be done and should be done,but in todays world these venues only work well under sometype if supervision.whether it means shadchonim are available on hand and or its under a recognized otg like the star k or ou (just an example).January 16, 2019 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #1663415frummy in the tummyParticipant
Thank you for correcting that. Growth rate combined with age gap.
I disagree. He said that proportionally, it is equally as applicable to a population with a smaller growth rate. I do not agree with that statement. If one were to convince me that growth rate + age gap causes a shidduch crisis, I would contend there is a certain percentage of growth rate, which would lead to a certain percentage of women remaining single, that one might define as the cutoff between “not a crisis” and “crisis.” So Joseph’s conclusion that the MO community also has a growth rate + age gap based crisis, even if it has a smaller growth rate, is not sound. The actual growth rate is an essential determinant in that equation.January 16, 2019 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1663458
In other words, you agree that it will create a disparity in the number of available boys vs. girls, just that it might not reach “crisis” levels? Okay, I’ll buy that.January 16, 2019 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #1663462
You Hit the bail on the head.
I think you and Ari are addressing a different shidduch crisis than some others in this thread.January 16, 2019 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1663469
“Why wouldn’t it be? What would be a bigger factor?”
I don’t know, I think there are multiple potential factors, and I’d be glad to list some I think may be at play, with the caveat that it’s speculative. I think a subset of available men (full-time learners) are more prized culturally, so a larger population of women are trying to be matched with a smaller population of men from the outset. And the potential for a man to be matched decreases with age more slowly than for a woman.
The population growth rates being thrown around here, however, are inflated by an order of magnitude, and it is highly unlikely that a 2-3 year marriage age gap within this growth regime alone is the primary reason men get significantly more shidduch opportunities than women.January 16, 2019 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #1663477
I think a subset of available men (full-time learners) are more prized culturally, so a larger population of women are trying to be matched with a smaller population of men from the outset.
That would partially shift the disparity to one subset, and presumably help a different subset. It wouldn’t change the overall numbers.
And the potential for a man to be matched decreases with age more slowly than for a woman.
Again, that doesn’t change the numbers, it just makes it even worse because it increases the age gap, and makes it even harder for women in a certain age group.
The population growth rates being thrown around here, however, are inflated by an order of magnitude
What do you think it really is?
and it is highly unlikely that a 2-3 year marriage age gap within this growth regime alone is the primary reason men get significantly more shidduch opportunities than women.
I guess that depends what the growth rate is…
Also, if older men frequently marry younger women, as you implied, that would make the gap even higher.January 16, 2019 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #1663638frummy in the tummyParticipant
Shoot, I guess I didn’t understand how to use the blockquote citations correctly. Now my response just looks awkward…January 16, 2019 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #1663646
Blockquotes look horrible no matter how you use them.
Right, Avram in MD?January 16, 2019 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1663668Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
“The population growth rates being thrown around here, however, are inflated by an order of magnitude, and it is highly unlikely that a 2-3 year marriage age gap within this growth regime alone is the primary reason men get significantly more shidduch opportunities than women.”
It’s probably the only reason. People have created other reasons for those who respond better to emotionalist theories. The charedi population is actually growing very rapidly, but even a moderate growth rate would cause people to take notice.
It also depends what you consider a significant number of singles. If there were 1,000 girls in a given year who couldn’t find a match, would you consider that significant within the context of the American yeshivish community? Would you consider it outlandish to assume that that community grows by over 1,000 people over the span of 3 years?January 16, 2019 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #1663682TalmidchochomParticipant
Shadchanim created and continue to nurture the shidduvh crisis.January 16, 2019 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1663760MistykinsParticipant
The funny thing about all these “older girls” is that science has proven many times over that men reach their peak in their late teens/ early 20’s, while women reach theirs in their mid-30’s.
Assuming the man is mature enough, what better combination than a young kollel man with a slightly older woman, already has her degrees and a good job, along with the confidence that comes with age? Tradition puts older men with younger women (men are more mature and capable of supporting the wife), but in reality older women are the way to go!January 16, 2019 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #1663790👑RebYidd23Participant
Mistykins, the good thing about marrying a younger woman is that if all goes well, you’ll eventually end up being married to an older woman, so you get both!January 17, 2019 12:56 am at 12:56 am #1663817JosephParticipant
RY23, I was going to write that some people to do trade ins to prevent that from happening, but then I realized some folks would get offended by not seeing the humor in it.January 17, 2019 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm #1663990
“Blockquotes look horrible no matter how you use them.
Right, Avram in MD?”
They looked fine back in the days when we had subtitles…January 17, 2019 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #1663995
“And the potential for a man to be matched decreases with age more slowly than for a woman.
Again, that doesn’t change the numbers, it just makes it even worse because it increases the age gap, and makes it even harder for women in a certain age group.”
I’d say it the other way around. The age gap due to straight population growth makes the cultural marriageability gap even worse.January 17, 2019 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #1663999TorntoBritParticipant
In my experience, in general, people are naturally getting married later than before. We should accept this fact. Additionally, in my opinion, shidduch education needs to occur in high school and seminary on what type of person makes a good marriage partner. In my experience, more women would get married if they agreed to date the men on the market and to see the good in them. Often times singles need time to mature to really become more internal such that they can appreciate another’s internal qualities. Less focus needs to be put on yichus and money and more on midos and Torah, and being happy with one’s lot. Additionally, often times shadchanim are more interested in being ‘involved’ in making shidduchim, than actually making shidduchim! Advice: send out the shidduch profiles to the boy and girl and offer to set them up, no pressure needed. Additionally if someone isn’t married by 32 its ok. People take a longer time to mature and there’s no crisis. In fact people that get married later have a much lower divorce rate. There is a real problem of people getting married younger and making the decision when either they don’t yet posses the kalim to have a successful marriage or they make a choice based on external factors or family pressure.January 17, 2019 2:34 pm at 2:34 pm #1664037JosephParticipant
Last I checked Torah Judaism says Shemona Esrei L’Chuppa. And that’s the age to be married by, not the age to start thinking about marriage.
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