October 6, 2010 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #699154Dr. PepperParticipant
I normally stay away from threads like this so that I don’t offend anyone. If anyone does take offence please forgive me retroactively.
A teacher of mine in high school once told us that everyone in the world is discriminated against one way or another. The example he gave regarding himself was that he wasn’t allowed to be a fighter pilot in the U.S.A.F. because he was over 6’6″ and couldn’t fit into the cockpit!
Growing up my parents always taught us to have the utmost respect for Baalei Teshuva. In my fathers words- “They are on a level that we can’t even come close to”. My kids got to see this first hand over this past three day Yom Tov when my parents saved the best food and nicest China and cutlery for the seuda where we had guests who were Baalei Teshuva.
When my brothers and I were dating my parents politely told shadchanim that they would only consider girls whose ancestors have always been frum- the reason being that a kohain can not marry a challal and if he does his children can not do the avodah and are not considered kohanim.
Take a simple case where a non-frum couple got divorced and she got remarried to a kohain. Their children are challalim and can not marry kohanim. (And this is in the case where we’re assuming that the divorce was done properly- think about what the parameters change to if it wasn’t done properly!)
Although this may be very rare, I do know of one family where this happened and their children are not kohanim.
There are many silly things out there but I agree with my parents for taking this seriously.October 6, 2010 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #699155oomisParticipant
Dr. Pepper, you made some VERY salient points, which I had not considered. It is not that anyone wants to discriminate, it is that the nature of how even the nicest, middos-filled non-frum people comport themselves in terms of physical tznius, means that we can no longer assume that a BT is not a mamzer, or chalal, or even Jewish. It is so sad that we have to be so careful, but we do, for the sake of our future generations. If two Jews marry and divorce civilly only, then the wife remarries and has a child, that child is a mamzer. If a girl had an “active” life before marriage, then became frum, she might not realize she cannot marry a kohein. So many issues, and all of them seem so unfair to the person who genuinely wants to live a Torah life. And that is why our actions have such a profound impact on our kids.October 6, 2010 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #699156pascha bchochmaParticipant
Depends how many generations were secular. For both my parents and many BTs, there was only one generation and despite being secular, both had kosher weddings. For someone from a long line of secular people, this is more of an issue.October 6, 2010 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #699157QuestionForYouParticipant
As “myfriend” says, the problem is even seeing the mixed dancing or improperly-clad women.
Men looking at women dancing or at improperly-clad women should be avoided whenever possible, even in the street, as it is damaging to the Neshama.
A man who watches women dance violates the prohibition of Histaklus (observing immodesty), which is termed by the Mesilas Yesharim as Znus Ha-Aynayim.
It’s also a shame that Pascha Bchochma’s father had to come up with an excuse for not dancing. If an Torah-observant person chooses not to join in, he should not have to make an excuse to less-observant people, if he’s not stopping anyone else from dancing.October 6, 2010 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #699158oomisParticipant
“If an Torah-observant person chooses not to join in, he should not have to make an excuse to less-observant people, if he’s not stopping anyone else from dancing. “
I happen to agree. And though this is OT, I feel the same way about Yiddishe mamas forcing guests (or event heir children) to eat when they are no longer hungry.October 7, 2010 1:17 am at 1:17 am #699159A Woman Outside BrooklynParticipant
Dr. Pepper, your case, a Kohein is the exception, rather than the rule in terms of shidduchim. A female person reading a shidduch can inquire of a perspective young lady (and don’t ask her mother this, please – because regardless of whether or not the girl’s a BT, there are some things she may not have told her mom) if she’s “acceptable” to marry a kohein. If she doesn’t understand the question, then probably you can assume she’s not, or not yet on your level. If she blushes, ditto. Been there, done that, and had to assur some otherwise very nice girls for a kohein (himself, a BT) who I’m trying to set up.
But for the rest of the male world, if a woman has sincerely done tshuva, and no one has done tshuva like a BT, then why pass up a possibly great woman?October 7, 2010 1:35 am at 1:35 am #699160HelpfulMember
Awob: Many non Kohanim seek to marry someone fit for a Kohein.
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