Shmiras Halashon

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  • #683132
    qwertyuiop
    Member

    thanx

    #683133
    [email protected]
    Participant

    Hi, there is a person: [email protected], who is starting to send out daily emails on shmiras halashon, you can email the person saying you would like to join, its a fast and easy lesson… (well pp on here all day must have extra time anyway)

    #683134
    bestdriver
    Participant

    (well pp on here all day must have extra time anyway)just like you [email protected]

    curios thanks i thought that we will start on mon will bring in mybook and post it first thing in the mrng. my day at the office starts at 10am so iyh it will be up by 1030 am

    #683135
    YW Moderator-72
    Participant

    I spoke with a person at the CCHF today and he is clearing it with the top person there. the plan at this point is to have a link in the features section similar to:

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/weekly_torah.php

    updates and status as soon as we have them.

    in the meantime, if you are not sure if what you are about to say violates the laws of shmiras haloshon, don’t say it! oh and if you are sure it is a violation, for sure don’t say it!

    #683136
    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    thanx mod72 for updating us on how it’s going!!!!!!!!!!!

    #683137
    Curious
    Member

    72 – If it’s not in the CR, then I have a feeling not too many people will see it. I’d be curious (my screenname again) to know how many people actually click on the Weekly Torah link.

    And this is by far the best line:

    “in the meantime, if you are not sure if what you are about to say violates the laws of shmiras haloshon, don’t say it! oh and if you are sure it is a violation, for sure don’t say it!”

    #683138
    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    how about making a link on the home page, but also keep the sticky thread in the cr???? just a thought!!!!!!

    #683139
    [email protected]
    Participant

    bestdriver, yes I do have extra time which is why I am the one who creates and send out the emails.

    #683140
    YW Moderator-72
    Participant

    asdfghjkl – that is the intention.

    #683141
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    The CCHF sends out a daily lesson from the Chofetz Chaim: A Daily Companion/Mesorah Publications. To subscribe or unsubscribe: e-mail [email protected] with subject subscribe/unsubscribe. To order tapes, books, learning programs and free catalog call 866-593-8399.

    #683142
    abcd1234
    Participant

    so mods is that it for the thread?

    #683143
    YW Moderator-72
    Participant

    not yet. We are working on it. thanks.

    #683144
    Curious
    Member

    Here’s tonight’s:

    (GYT, pg 106)

    You are forbidden to insult others, even if concealed in witticisms. This causes bystanders to laugh at the subject and greatly increase his embarassment. In addition, anyone who compliments this sinner on his wit will be held responsible for being an accomplice.

    #683145
    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    thank you Curious!!!!

    #683146
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    ouch. kinda relevant to what’s been going on in the CR lately. we needa be more careful.

    #683147
    abcd1234
    Participant

    brooklyn

    that was the original intent of starting this thread-we could all use a little reminder though

    mods

    thanks so much, the zchusim for organizing something like this are countless. may we all be zoche to the geulah shelaima bekorov berachamim!!!!!

    #683148
    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    abcd1234: amen to that!!!!

    #683149
    shkoyach
    Member

    Wait, I have a shaila…. if… (ad the shaila niggun as I ask) we all are anonymous as in a site like YW and we insult ppl and talk abt ppl when we make fun of them, does it hold like Loshon Hara mamish cuz l’maiseh i think no actual harm is done (though there may be an issur of oinaas devarim….) but If I say I think “lkjhgf” (ploni) is a shikkur and has no clue what he’s talking about… we all know maybe who ploni is by screen name but we have no clue in real life so…. is it just not a good habbit or actual LH? Hope that made sense. I assume it is anyway but just curious (sorry curious to use your name!)

    #683150
    Curious
    Member

    shkoyach, I have a copyright on it!!

    Good question, how about asking your LOR and letting us know?

    #683151
    qwertyuiop
    Member

    are we going to get an update soon?

    #683152
    Curious
    Member

    Lying to pervent r’chilus (GYT, pg 137)

    If someone asks you for information that would be considered r’chilus (telling him what other have done to him or that others have spoken against him), try to change the topic or avoid answering. Try to avoid telling an outright lie. If this is not possible, you are permitted to lie for the sake of peace, but may never swear falsely.

    Ex: Chaim asks you “What did Joe say about me?” (You know Joe said something derogatory about Chaim). Try to change the topic or avoid answering. If need be you may distort the truth to avoid telling Chaim this r’chilus.

    #683153
    qwertyuiop
    Member

    thanx curious

    #683154
    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    Curious: thank you!!!! your a peach!!!

    #683155
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    what in heaven’s name??? a peach???

    #683156
    Curious
    Member

    a peach?!?!

    Now that you’ve analyzed mangos, please feel free to tell me about peaches.

    #683157
    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    Curious: lol!!! your a peach!! never heard that one b4???

    #683158
    Curious
    Member

    Nope. But I looked it up in urban dictionary – sarcastic or sincere way of saying thanks. Now I gotta figure out which way you meant it…

    #683159
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    wow. they say you learn something new every day. i guess this was it. i think i’m gonna make it my new thing :} lol it’s a weird one!

    #683160
    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    Curious: dont think too much into it!!! lol

    #683161
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Shkoyach wrote:

    Wait, I have a shaila…. if… (ad the shaila niggun as I ask) we all are anonymous as in a site like YW and we insult ppl and talk abt ppl when we make fun of them, does it hold like Loshon Hara mamish cuz l’maiseh i think no actual harm is done (though there may be an issur of oinaas devarim….) but If I say I think “lkjhgf” (ploni) is a shikkur and has no clue what he’s talking about… we all know maybe who ploni is by screen name but we have no clue in real life so…. is it just not a good habbit or actual LH?

    It is certainly not a good habit and is quite possibly loshon harah. Using “chofetzchaim” as an example, even though you don’t know him by face, he does have an identity with a name attached to it so if you make fun of “choftezchaim” you are making fun of an actual person. When he reads the comment, he may feel pain or embarrassment. Furthermore, you may degrade him in the eyes of the other posters and in the future when they see a post by him they might associate it with a different type of person than they used to which would therefore make it loshon hara (IMHO) even though you don’t know him “personally”. Furthermore, there may be people on here who know who he is and when they read a derogatory comment it is certainly loshon hara because he might now be embarrassed the next time he sees these people. Sorry for picking on you “chofetzchaim” and I hope this makes sense.

    Maybe the “chofetzchaim” has something to say about this?

    #683162
    Curious
    Member

    Nice explanation 42. Now can we nominate you as offical updater of this thread?

    #683163
    chofetzchaim
    Member

    Try putting yourself in the other person’s shoes. Would you want another poster to say this about you? Even if you wouldn’t mind, think about it from the other person’s perspective. The other person might have friends who know who he is who will read the post, the other person might be more sensitive than you, etc.

    The Rambam wrote (Hilchos De’os Perek 7): “Lashon Ho’rah is something which, if known to others, causes the person damage to his person or finances, or causes him pain or frightens him.” I guess the question here is whether an insult of a screen-name is considered “known to others”. I would say it is for the same reason that YW Moderator-42 wrote that some people might actually know who the person is. Even if nobody actually knows them personally, people do know them by their screen-name and insulting them can therefore still cause “damage” or “pain”. People may no longer respect that particular poster’s opinion anymore, etc.

    This might be a bit of a stretch but, let’s make a comparison to insulting “The Rav of Shul Ploni” among a group of friends. Let’s say that nobody in the group knows the Rav personally or will ever actually meet him. They know him by a title. Yet, it can still cause him “damage” or “pain” if he ever finds out what was said even though he doesn’t know anybody in the group personally. If this particular Rav now issues a psak, the people in the group might treat it differently then they would have beforehand because of what was said. So too here, if you insult a particular member, it could be that nobody here knows who he is but if this member now posts an opinion, this opinion will be treated differently because of what was said previously and it could cause pain to that poster.

    #683164
    shkoyach
    Member

    Ah, I like your answer 42. Shkoyach! I don’t know if l’maiseh it can be classaified as exact Lashon hara but it sure is avak and bad habit for real life as well as other issurim possibly involved and I think it is important that we all realize when we tease eachother that we should be careful even though we dont really know eachother (at least mostly… and those who do know who they are and it may be an issur causing them to be mekabel a LH that they read!)

    Interesting thought… happened to many in here Im sure- You get a call about information for a boy or girl regarding a shidduch. You know some not good things or potential negatives (although not outright dangerous to the marriage) and you are asked about this person. You dont want to lie, you don’t want to tell the truth necessarily, and if you say I’ll have to call you back because I have to find out if I can tell you that- it will be obvious you have something bad to say… what would you think the proper thing to do is?

    (By the way I really think we should use this forum to bring up real life scenarios that we get into on the spot and see how every one would react and the proper reaction!)

    #683165
    Curious
    Member

    Nice post shkoyach.

    I’ve gotten shidduch calls where I really had to think of how to formulate my words to say it properly. If the person calling says, “Hi, I’m xyz calling for shidduch info about abc,” then I may have the excuse of saying “I’d like to help you, I’m in middle of something important now, can we be in touch in half an hour,” etc.

    Or how about the rude, “I have a beep coming in, just a minute…”?

    It’s much harder this way:

    xyz: “Hi, my name is xyz, do you have a few minutes?”

    Curious: “sure”

    xyz: “I’d like to know shidduch info about abc”

    Too late to say I’m busy now….

    What has helped me get through some of these calls is to first ask: “Tell me about the boy/girl you’re considering this person for.” First, it’s easier to answer when you know where they’re coming from – not to c”v lie or mislead, but rather to word it in an appropriate manner. Second, I think it may even be a shmiras halashon requirement. I’m going to look it up in a sefer now…

    #683166
    shkoyach
    Member

    ok- this happened before- You just reminded me curious…

    Parent calls up and the shidduch call is going well, then they say, I heard that the person may have done xyz or had xyz happen to him/her and nobody is giving me much info but I know that you know him best! (ouch)

    BH I was able to work it out. I knew that although the situation happened it was being taken out of context and it would not have had any affect on the shidduch whatsoever. I did tell the parent that if they ask direct questions I may be able to help them out and I was able to explain the situation in somewhat of a positive light.

    Other times you just have to try to be quick and think of a way to get out of answering right away. But it is important really for us to try not to be the ones to think we have the achrayis to share all types of info. Let us ask shailos when we dont know. I asked one person that confided informartion to me to please not give me as a reference! The truth is I have wonderful things to say when I am called. It is so hard though. And thats why we have to learn these halachos again and again.

    Anymore scenarios or feedback on this last one??

    Also how about when you give information and you use certain words freely that mean one thing to you but completely different worlds to others… so many lives can be black marked that way with very hard to repair damage!!!

    #683167
    Curious
    Member

    So true how words are interpreted the way the listener wants to hear it.

    Friend: “Curious is a great kid, very outgoing, fun, etc.”

    Mother: “Oh, that sounds too loud for my child.”

    Try again.

    Friend: “Curious is very fine, sincere, sensitive, etc.”

    Mother: “Way too introverted for my gem of a child.”

    How about words like “open-minded”, “wordly”, and my favorite – “yeshivish”. I bet you if I’d ask 10 members here to define yeshivish, we’d get 65 different definitions. All these words are so incredibly relative to the speaker’s/listener’s background. It means something so different for everyone. I’ve actually gotten into philosophical discussions with parents on shidduch calls regarding these relative words. What does this mean, “Is xyz frum?” ?!?!

    You have to try your best and allow the Ultimate Matchmaker to arrange for selective hearing.

    #683168
    shkoyach
    Member

    today’s scenario… someone is speaking a juicy piece… you are in the room and it is someone that you can not make stop. what now???

    There is an old song “Thats why Hashem gave us two lips to keep our mouths shut tight, and two lobes to close our ears from hearing things not right… lik e LH!” I have a habit that I developed that when I hear someone relating juicy gossip, I repeat over and over to myself “I am not mekabel” so that I can block it out!

    #683169
    shkoyach
    Member

    curious, about what you said with the terms lie yeshivish etc… I have seen MANY misunderstandings because of it!!!

    Also are we finished with posting halachos??

    Well I’ll post from the sefer I am learning the day that I am up to:

    RECHILUS (causing bad feelings between ppl) IS FORBIDDEN EVEN WHEN

    A) YOU WRITE THE INFO B) YOU AGREE WITH THE INFO C) YOU WOULD REPEAT IT IN FRONT OF THE SPEAKER.

    for example: Baruch tells you “Your brother is so selfish. He never does a favor for me when I ask him to!” It is assur to repeat this to your brother even if you wouldn’t be afraid to say it in front of Baruch.

    It happens to be even worse if you say it in front of Baruch because if he isn’t there your brother could assume you misunderstood Baruch. But if Baruch hears and says nothing then your brother knows for sure he said it and it will magnify the bad feelings.

    #683170
    qwertyuiop
    Member

    thanx!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #683171
    shkoyach
    Member

    Ma Pleeezzzzzzzure!

    #683172
    shkoyach
    Member

    I hope the fact that there are not many posts means everyone is speechless!!! excuse the pun…

    #683173
    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    shkoyach; we sure am!!!!

    #683174
    Bais Yaakov maydel
    Participant

    shkpyach, you leave the room.

    or go running up, “hey! i heard s/t sooo similar…..”

    change the topic. much easier than it sounds!

    #683175
    shkoyach
    Member

    Learning shmiras halashon really helps… it doesnt happen overnight but I cant tell you how many times I have caught myself and held back recently!!!!

    and it really hurts to hear it from other people not even talking to you!

    never give up, I thought I would never be at this point and still I have a whole lot more to control when it comes to it but I really feel that its starting to set in!

    #683176
    abcd1234
    Participant

    mods is this thread going anywhere?

    btw, just in the spirit of this topic if anyone can post the number of the CCHF shailah hotline and the hours its open it would be very much appreciated.

    one more thing, special thanks to those who post the daily halacha, you are racking up an innumerable amount of zchusim!

    #683177
    shkoyach
    Member

    are we ever gonna get a daily lesson the cchf? cuz we dont seem to be so on top of our random lessons

    #683178
    qwertyuiop
    Member

    This is for you abcd1234

    The Shmiras Haloshon Shaila Hotline

    This telephone hotline puts callers in contact with expert rabbonim who can answer your halachic questions concerning proper speech. This free service is available at: 718-951-3696 from 9:00 to 10:30 p.m. (east coast time) Monday thru Thursday and Saturday nights.

    #683179
    abcd1234
    Participant

    qwerty-

    i dont think ive ever called someone a qwerty before but whatever, thanks its very much appreciated!

    #683180
    qwertyuiop
    Member

    as shkoyach would say: ma plezure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and don’t worry you’re forgiven

    #683181
    shkoyach
    Member

    for the sake of it… tonights halacha on rechilus: Even if you are being pressured to say it you MAY NOT reveal the info. And this is even if its your mother, father, boss, or other important person SO MUCH SO THAT YOU NEED TO BE WILLING TO GIVE UP YOUR JOB instead of saying the rechilus, how much more so if it wont cost you your job.

    Its amazing how chamur it is, yet its so easy to slip it by!

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