Should Harassing Other Posters Be Allowed in the CR?

Home Forums YWN Main Site & Coffee Room Issues Should Harassing Other Posters Be Allowed in the CR?

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  • #608154
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    This is not for discussion, only for vote. Please vote if you think that harassing other posters should be permitted in the CR.

    If most people agree, we will petition the mods to only permit posts which do not harass other posters, for grammar reasons or otherwise.

    #929084

    You forgot to start by voting “no”.

    No.

    #929085
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    no

    #929086
    oomis
    Participant

    No. Respectful disagreement, yes, harrassment, absolutely not.

    #929087
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    does that include trolling

    #929088
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Of course not.

    #929090
    rabbi_dr
    Participant

    Does that include being disrespectful to people who you don’t agree with?

    #929091
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    What do you mean by harassing? If you mean a comment that does nothing but demean another poster, then adamant no. If something else, then please explain.

    #929092
    wanderingchana
    Participant

    Does it include voting other CR members ‘off the island’ because you disagree with them?

    #929093
    amichai
    Participant

    no

    #929094
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Does that include being disrespectful to people who you don’t agree with?

    Of course.

    What do you mean by harassing? If you mean a comment that does nothing but demean another poster, then adamant no.

    Exactly.

    Does it include voting other CR members ‘off the island’ because you disagree with them?

    It isn’t because I disagree with her. It is because she posts comments which do nothing but demean another poster. And that is precisely what this thread is about.

    I happen to agree with her; I like when people in good grammar. But I don’t go around making fun of them for not knowing good grammar, nor do I say that their opinions are useless if not conveyed in good grammar.

    Note how I made a similar case a few years back, but phrased it as advice to the posters themselves on how make their comments accessible. I do it to help the posters themselves. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/how-to-write-an-easily-readable-post

    #929095
    just my hapence
    Participant

    Should threads that are started for the sole purpose of harassing someone about their preference for grammatical accuracy be allowed on the CR?

    #929096
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Should threads that are started for the sole purpose of harassing someone about their preference for grammatical accuracy be allowed on the CR?

    Start your own poll.

    #929097
    ED IT OR
    Participant

    IS YES AN OPTION IN THE POLL OR IS IT OPT OUT?

    #929098
    rabbi_dr
    Participant

    PBA- how do you explain your treatment of some of the other posters?

    And I quote…

    “Wow. You really know even less than nothing. It really is quite bewildering.”

    Sound familiar?

    #929099
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    IS YES AN OPTION IN THE POLL OR IS IT OPT OUT?

    Of course it’s an option. It just means sustaining the current regime.

    #929100
    just my hapence
    Participant

    Popa – I considered it, but felt my point would be better made by contextualisation.

    #929101
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Popa – I considered it, but felt my point would be better made by contextualisation.

    Oh, so you are being serious; I thought you were just making jokes.

    Do you really think I’m opposed to her caring about grammar? I could care less. I’m opposed to how she abuses people about their grammar, with posts which–to quote Yserbius–do “nothing but demean another poster”. They do not contribute to the discussion; all they do is insult the poster. She must stop.

    #929102

    popa – I know we’ve ‘discussed’ this before but I continue to be baffled by your strong stance on this when, as rabbi_dr posted, you do the same thing yourself. I am not saying this to demean you in anyway, perhaps hearing this in context you can accept this as well meant constructive criticism and adjust your posts as well.

    #929103
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Syag: Perhaps I am sometimes mean, and I have no problem with it being pointed out. I don’t make a claim to perfection here. And my issue here is not the occasional comment; I am perturbed by the attempt to institutionalize the offensive behavior.

    Also, rabbi dr did not post a link. I’d like to see what sort of opinion I was responding to. I do have different standards when people are attacking the Torah or Hashem or Chazal (?? ? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????)

    So here is the link http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/chalav-stam-if-no-milk-allergy-listed-1#post-423875. The comment I was responding to was attempting to undermine the mesorah by declaring himself the arbiter between the mechaber and the rema, and which poster has quite a history for disagreeing with mesorah. I think my response there was well justified, and was meant to demonstrate to the public that not only was he incorrect, but that his scholarship was way off in any event. Do you disagree?

    Also while I don’t mean to excuse my ill behavior, there is certainly a difference as Yserbius noted between mean comments in the course of discussion and mean comments that have no other function in the discussion.

    #929104
    wanderingchana
    Participant

    I can’t believe I missed this.

    All this time, Popa has meant to vote “Yes”. Click on his name to read why.

    #929105

    Rabbi-dr and Syag, I will defend popa on that. He was only putting down that poster’s knowledge because that poster was taking a very non-traditional approach to halacha, which included disregarding the opinion of, in a demeaning manner, one of our great poskim (the Rema). This was not over some silly grammatical minutiae.

    Even if one were to defend that poster’s approach (which I don’t), he would have to admit that the motivations were quite different.

    If you want to call popa a hypocrite, you’ll have to find a different example.

    Edit: This was posted before popa’s post defending himself was approved.

    #929106

    Wanderingchana,

    You also missed this clarification:

    Lying on YWN

    I believe he is quite serious here.

    #929107
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Thank you DY

    #929108

    For that to be true hakaras hatov, I would have to get myself into a position to be insulted, so that you can defend me. 🙂

    #929109
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    lol

    And I call as witness the last time I was actually upset at DY http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/getting-the-other-to-say-no

    #929110
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    We come here to have a bit of fun. If someone is getting hurt, it is not fun.

    #929111
    haifagirl
    Participant

    Now I understand. If something is offensive to me, it’s permitted. If something is offensive to somebody else, it’s not. Thanks for clearing that up.

    #929112

    Haifagirl, you are personally offended by poor grammar?

    #929113
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Haifa: I don’t want to be mean to you; I quite usually enjoy your posts. I just want you to stop being mean to other people.

    And I recognize that you don’t intend to be mean, which is why I and others have tried to point out to you when your comments are in fact mean. If I thought you intended to be mean, I wouldn’t bother pointing it out.

    And I’m sorry that I am hurting you. I don’t want to hurt you. But I think this is important–I think you need to stop correcting people’s grammar. Truthfully, in many instances it is fine and nobody will be offended, but, if it is hard to distinguish which cases are which, then it is probably worthwhile to just stop completely.

    #929114

    DY – your defense is misplaced as I wasn’t attacking and I wasn’t calling him a hypocrite. You also can’t use one incident to tell me that a bunch of others never happened. Although I agree with his motive for putting the person down in that particular post, I believe very strongly that there are other ways of doing it that would be both more appropriate and more effective.

    If I was calling him a hypocrite, that would make me a hypocrite as my criticism is in regard to his putting others down. I was trying to point out to him that he may not realize that some posters see his behavior to be equally as mean and that if he does indeed find it distasteful, he may, himself, want to consider change. It wasn’t what I wanted from him, it was about what I thought he would want from himself. I was trying to avoid too lengthy a discussion ( and failed), however, because then people tend to pick apart and answer to various sentence fragments and the point gets lost.

    I did consider leaving out all the spaces and commas in order to make this post shorter but decided against it.

    torah613 – I agree

    #929115

    Syag, you didn’t call him a hypocrite, you were more polite than that, but it would be a huge coincidence if you punkt chose this thread to give him mussar.

    I didn’t say popa was a tzaddik (at least not on this thread), but that was a bad example, not because the poster deserved an insult, but because the situation demanded a strong response, not some pc-high-self-esteem-inducing-back-handed-compliment. As I recall, although popa (admittedly) certainly has been “over the top”, that was the most negative comment I’ve ever seen him make, so not only was it a bad example, it was an unfair one.

    #929116
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    DY: I think actually the meanest things I’ve said on the CR are here:

    The conversation starts here: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-elyashev-bans-nachal-chareidi?view=all#post-341079

    I responded here with my meanest post ever http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-elyashev-bans-nachal-chareidi/page/2?view=all#post-341264

    Then, you may continue reading down where he makes up ridiculous shittos and ignores the outright rishonim, etc, until I culminate with this http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-elyashev-bans-nachal-chareidi/page/2?view=all#post-341264

    As I state in the last post referenced, the reason I responded like that is that he “sounds like” a talmid chochom, but is actually just making stuff up. That is why I needed to show that, and felt it was appropriate to respond as I did. And I have no regrets for that one either.

    I do have regrets for some others though, such as the medication line in the other thread.

    #929117
    superme
    Member

    DY and PBA — thank you for sticking up for me and thepurpleone we do it bec it’s easier that wayad as she said it shows our personality (did I say it right purpleone?) when people just keep commenting on grammar 1) we do it more….2) u ruin the thread!!

    Haifa, many times we asked you to stop in every thread you comment about it and it ruins the thread I don’t think popa did this bec he wanted to insult or be mean he did it bec u didn’t get it another way were hopingu get itnow..(popa am I right?)

    #929118
    #929119
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Thank you, I meant this one http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-elyashev-bans-nachal-chareidi/page/2?view=all#post-341496

    And thanks for noting that one from Sam. I respect Sam very much, despite that we frequently disagree. I looked back to find our first disagreement, before I knew him. You can read all about it here. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/earthquake-hurricane-during-one-week-in-new-york?view=all#post-291536

    #929120
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    yes superme, u r rite.

    #929121

    DY – I believe you misunderstood again, but I don’t believe I can explain it any better. When I tell someone their behavior is hurtful, and am guilty of the same behavior, I would want someone to assume I didn’t realize I was doing that same thing, (since I just claimed it to be hurtful) and do me the courtesy of letting me know so I can change. That is not name calling on any level. That is called being a friend.

    And why wouldn’t it be in this thread? It was a response to his opening post?

    #929122
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Popa, you broke your own rule!

    #929123
    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    whoa, i think this thread is rlly rude 2 haifagirl the same way the other threads rude to me and superme.. lets all be frends kk???

    #929124
    Toi
    Participant

    no more grammer nazis. go away. and no bashing others. play nice.

    #929125

    Syag, I see. Rabbi-dr’s example was still a poor one, even if popa was even meaner to Avi K.

    #929126

    Purple, we’ve really tried to be much more subtle about it before, but she still insisted.

    #929127
    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    and why exaclty shud i listen to her??

    #929128
    superme
    Member

    Ou y can’t we all b friends??!!! Seriously let’s just ignore her then if noone responds to the grammar comments from her eventually shell stop!!

    #929129
    rabbi_dr
    Participant

    I’m just a casual reader and occasional poster to the coffee room. I guess I’m a relative outsider who doesn’t get the nuances and subtleties of the coffee room personalities. For that I apologize. That being said, I’m sure there are other casual browsers who may be as unfamiliar as I am and may have missed the distinction. Thanks for clarifying.

    #929130
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes, let’s all be friends.

    (haleivi, which rule?)

    #929131
    superme
    Member

    Popa we hav been friends I’m waiting for everyone to stop doing ???? ????!!!!

    #929132
    haifagirl
    Participant

    Haifagirl, you are personally offended by poor grammar?

    Yes. Isn’t that obvious?

    #929133
    WIY
    Member

    Toi

    Try not to trivialize the murder of 6,000,000 kedoshim by appending the term nazi where it has no place and isn’t discussing the Holocaust. I know its very in vogue to do so but really any Jew and any sensitive person should refrain.

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