February 11, 2013 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #608154
This is not for discussion, only for vote. Please vote if you think that harassing other posters should be permitted in the CR.
If most people agree, we will petition the mods to only permit posts which do not harass other posters, for grammar reasons or otherwise.February 11, 2013 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #929084
You forgot to start by voting “no”.
No.February 11, 2013 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #929085
noFebruary 11, 2013 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #929086oomisParticipant
No. Respectful disagreement, yes, harrassment, absolutely not.February 11, 2013 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #929087OneOfManyParticipant
does that include trollingFebruary 11, 2013 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #929088HaLeiViParticipant
Of course not.February 11, 2013 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #929090
Does that include being disrespectful to people who you don’t agree with?February 11, 2013 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #929091Yserbius123Participant
What do you mean by harassing? If you mean a comment that does nothing but demean another poster, then adamant no. If something else, then please explain.February 11, 2013 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #929092wanderingchanaParticipant
Does it include voting other CR members ‘off the island’ because you disagree with them?February 11, 2013 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #929093amichaiParticipant
noFebruary 11, 2013 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #929094
Does that include being disrespectful to people who you don’t agree with?
What do you mean by harassing? If you mean a comment that does nothing but demean another poster, then adamant no.
Does it include voting other CR members ‘off the island’ because you disagree with them?
It isn’t because I disagree with her. It is because she posts comments which do nothing but demean another poster. And that is precisely what this thread is about.
I happen to agree with her; I like when people in good grammar. But I don’t go around making fun of them for not knowing good grammar, nor do I say that their opinions are useless if not conveyed in good grammar.
Note how I made a similar case a few years back, but phrased it as advice to the posters themselves on how make their comments accessible. I do it to help the posters themselves. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/how-to-write-an-easily-readable-postFebruary 11, 2013 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #929095just my hapenceParticipant
Should threads that are started for the sole purpose of harassing someone about their preference for grammatical accuracy be allowed on the CR?February 11, 2013 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #929096
Should threads that are started for the sole purpose of harassing someone about their preference for grammatical accuracy be allowed on the CR?
Start your own poll.February 11, 2013 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #929097ED IT ORParticipant
IS YES AN OPTION IN THE POLL OR IS IT OPT OUT?February 11, 2013 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #929098
PBA- how do you explain your treatment of some of the other posters?
And I quote…
“Wow. You really know even less than nothing. It really is quite bewildering.”
Sound familiar?February 11, 2013 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #929099
IS YES AN OPTION IN THE POLL OR IS IT OPT OUT?
Of course it’s an option. It just means sustaining the current regime.February 11, 2013 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #929100just my hapenceParticipant
Popa – I considered it, but felt my point would be better made by contextualisation.February 11, 2013 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #929101
Popa – I considered it, but felt my point would be better made by contextualisation.
Oh, so you are being serious; I thought you were just making jokes.
Do you really think I’m opposed to her caring about grammar? I could care less. I’m opposed to how she abuses people about their grammar, with posts which–to quote Yserbius–do “nothing but demean another poster”. They do not contribute to the discussion; all they do is insult the poster. She must stop.February 11, 2013 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #929102
popa – I know we’ve ‘discussed’ this before but I continue to be baffled by your strong stance on this when, as rabbi_dr posted, you do the same thing yourself. I am not saying this to demean you in anyway, perhaps hearing this in context you can accept this as well meant constructive criticism and adjust your posts as well.February 11, 2013 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #929103
Syag: Perhaps I am sometimes mean, and I have no problem with it being pointed out. I don’t make a claim to perfection here. And my issue here is not the occasional comment; I am perturbed by the attempt to institutionalize the offensive behavior.
Also, rabbi dr did not post a link. I’d like to see what sort of opinion I was responding to. I do have different standards when people are attacking the Torah or Hashem or Chazal (?? ? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????)
So here is the link http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/chalav-stam-if-no-milk-allergy-listed-1#post-423875. The comment I was responding to was attempting to undermine the mesorah by declaring himself the arbiter between the mechaber and the rema, and which poster has quite a history for disagreeing with mesorah. I think my response there was well justified, and was meant to demonstrate to the public that not only was he incorrect, but that his scholarship was way off in any event. Do you disagree?
Also while I don’t mean to excuse my ill behavior, there is certainly a difference as Yserbius noted between mean comments in the course of discussion and mean comments that have no other function in the discussion.February 11, 2013 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #929104wanderingchanaParticipant
I can’t believe I missed this.
All this time, Popa has meant to vote “Yes”. Click on his name to read why.February 11, 2013 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #929105
Rabbi-dr and Syag, I will defend popa on that. He was only putting down that poster’s knowledge because that poster was taking a very non-traditional approach to halacha, which included disregarding the opinion of, in a demeaning manner, one of our great poskim (the Rema). This was not over some silly grammatical minutiae.
Even if one were to defend that poster’s approach (which I don’t), he would have to admit that the motivations were quite different.
If you want to call popa a hypocrite, you’ll have to find a different example.
Edit: This was posted before popa’s post defending himself was approved.February 11, 2013 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #929106
You also missed this clarification:
I believe he is quite serious here.February 11, 2013 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #929107
Thank you DYFebruary 11, 2013 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #929108
For that to be true hakaras hatov, I would have to get myself into a position to be insulted, so that you can defend me. 🙂February 11, 2013 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #929109
And I call as witness the last time I was actually upset at DY http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/getting-the-other-to-say-noFebruary 11, 2013 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #929110Torah613TorahParticipant
We come here to have a bit of fun. If someone is getting hurt, it is not fun.February 11, 2013 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #929111haifagirlParticipant
Now I understand. If something is offensive to me, it’s permitted. If something is offensive to somebody else, it’s not. Thanks for clearing that up.February 11, 2013 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #929112
Haifagirl, you are personally offended by poor grammar?February 11, 2013 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #929113
Haifa: I don’t want to be mean to you; I quite usually enjoy your posts. I just want you to stop being mean to other people.
And I recognize that you don’t intend to be mean, which is why I and others have tried to point out to you when your comments are in fact mean. If I thought you intended to be mean, I wouldn’t bother pointing it out.
And I’m sorry that I am hurting you. I don’t want to hurt you. But I think this is important–I think you need to stop correcting people’s grammar. Truthfully, in many instances it is fine and nobody will be offended, but, if it is hard to distinguish which cases are which, then it is probably worthwhile to just stop completely.February 11, 2013 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #929114
DY – your defense is misplaced as I wasn’t attacking and I wasn’t calling him a hypocrite. You also can’t use one incident to tell me that a bunch of others never happened. Although I agree with his motive for putting the person down in that particular post, I believe very strongly that there are other ways of doing it that would be both more appropriate and more effective.
If I was calling him a hypocrite, that would make me a hypocrite as my criticism is in regard to his putting others down. I was trying to point out to him that he may not realize that some posters see his behavior to be equally as mean and that if he does indeed find it distasteful, he may, himself, want to consider change. It wasn’t what I wanted from him, it was about what I thought he would want from himself. I was trying to avoid too lengthy a discussion ( and failed), however, because then people tend to pick apart and answer to various sentence fragments and the point gets lost.
I did consider leaving out all the spaces and commas in order to make this post shorter but decided against it.
torah613 – I agreeFebruary 11, 2013 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #929115
Syag, you didn’t call him a hypocrite, you were more polite than that, but it would be a huge coincidence if you punkt chose this thread to give him mussar.
I didn’t say popa was a tzaddik (at least not on this thread), but that was a bad example, not because the poster deserved an insult, but because the situation demanded a strong response, not some pc-high-self-esteem-inducing-back-handed-compliment. As I recall, although popa (admittedly) certainly has been “over the top”, that was the most negative comment I’ve ever seen him make, so not only was it a bad example, it was an unfair one.February 11, 2013 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #929116
DY: I think actually the meanest things I’ve said on the CR are here:
The conversation starts here: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-elyashev-bans-nachal-chareidi?view=all#post-341079
I responded here with my meanest post ever http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-elyashev-bans-nachal-chareidi/page/2?view=all#post-341264
Then, you may continue reading down where he makes up ridiculous shittos and ignores the outright rishonim, etc, until I culminate with this http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-elyashev-bans-nachal-chareidi/page/2?view=all#post-341264
As I state in the last post referenced, the reason I responded like that is that he “sounds like” a talmid chochom, but is actually just making stuff up. That is why I needed to show that, and felt it was appropriate to respond as I did. And I have no regrets for that one either.
I do have regrets for some others though, such as the medication line in the other thread.February 11, 2013 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #929117
DY and PBA — thank you for sticking up for me and thepurpleone we do it bec it’s easier that wayad as she said it shows our personality (did I say it right purpleone?) when people just keep commenting on grammar 1) we do it more….2) u ruin the thread!!
Haifa, many times we asked you to stop in every thread you comment about it and it ruins the thread I don’t think popa did this bec he wanted to insult or be mean he did it bec u didn’t get it another way were hopingu get itnow..(popa am I right?)February 11, 2013 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #929118
Popa, you wrote the same link twice, but I assume you mean this one:
But I note this post as well.February 11, 2013 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #929119
Thank you, I meant this one http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-elyashev-bans-nachal-chareidi/page/2?view=all#post-341496
And thanks for noting that one from Sam. I respect Sam very much, despite that we frequently disagree. I looked back to find our first disagreement, before I knew him. You can read all about it here. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/earthquake-hurricane-during-one-week-in-new-york?view=all#post-291536February 11, 2013 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #929120
yes superme, u r rite.February 11, 2013 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #929121
DY – I believe you misunderstood again, but I don’t believe I can explain it any better. When I tell someone their behavior is hurtful, and am guilty of the same behavior, I would want someone to assume I didn’t realize I was doing that same thing, (since I just claimed it to be hurtful) and do me the courtesy of letting me know so I can change. That is not name calling on any level. That is called being a friend.
And why wouldn’t it be in this thread? It was a response to his opening post?February 11, 2013 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #929122HaLeiViParticipant
Popa, you broke your own rule!February 11, 2013 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #929123ThePurpleOneMember
whoa, i think this thread is rlly rude 2 haifagirl the same way the other threads rude to me and superme.. lets all be frends kk???February 11, 2013 11:10 pm at 11:10 pm #929124ToiParticipant
no more grammer nazis. go away. and no bashing others. play nice.February 11, 2013 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #929125
Syag, I see. Rabbi-dr’s example was still a poor one, even if popa was even meaner to Avi K.February 11, 2013 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #929126
Purple, we’ve really tried to be much more subtle about it before, but she still insisted.February 11, 2013 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #929127ThePurpleOneMember
and why exaclty shud i listen to her??February 11, 2013 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #929128
Ou y can’t we all b friends??!!! Seriously let’s just ignore her then if noone responds to the grammar comments from her eventually shell stop!!February 12, 2013 12:21 am at 12:21 am #929129
I’m just a casual reader and occasional poster to the coffee room. I guess I’m a relative outsider who doesn’t get the nuances and subtleties of the coffee room personalities. For that I apologize. That being said, I’m sure there are other casual browsers who may be as unfamiliar as I am and may have missed the distinction. Thanks for clarifying.February 12, 2013 12:40 am at 12:40 am #929130
Yes, let’s all be friends.
(haleivi, which rule?)February 12, 2013 12:56 am at 12:56 am #929131
Popa we hav been friends I’m waiting for everyone to stop doing ???? ????!!!!February 12, 2013 1:01 am at 1:01 am #929132haifagirlParticipant
Haifagirl, you are personally offended by poor grammar?
Yes. Isn’t that obvious?February 12, 2013 1:32 am at 1:32 am #929133WIYMember
Try not to trivialize the murder of 6,000,000 kedoshim by appending the term nazi where it has no place and isn’t discussing the Holocaust. I know its very in vogue to do so but really any Jew and any sensitive person should refrain.
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