December 28, 2010 6:36 am at 6:36 am #973295RalphieMember
Connect every computer to a second, large screen on the house facing the street. That way all the neighbors will see what he’s watching. They’ll tell his wife, don’t worry.
Or, you could hook up a helmet when the computer goes on – sensitive enough to feel a human. As soon as he looks at shmutz, ZAP, electrodes in the helmet zap him good – she’ll hear his scream and come running. This way, he stays out of trouble and she can remain calmly in the kitchen baking or ironing etc.December 28, 2010 9:55 am at 9:55 am #973296Mother in IsraelMember
TMB–Many men run off with women who are paid to do what they are doing. These women might be with a different man each day. The numbers are not necessarily even.December 28, 2010 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #973298
How about when the woman is a goy? does that make things equal?
Also, not all of them “run off”. But marriages can and do suffer when the husband has a secret life. And in such cases, it doesn’t either have to be equal.December 28, 2010 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #973299
“A woman will only fall prey to another man if and only if there is trouble in her own home. That will happen with or without internet.”
First part I agree with you 90%. The other part is not true. The internet unfortunately gives opportunity that she won’t have otherwise.December 28, 2010 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #973300
“A woman will only fall prey to another man if and only if there is trouble in her own home. That will happen with or without internet.”
Nopes, that’s not always the case at all.
I know people who had a very good marriage but they CHOSE to be unhappy with themselves and seek happiness somewhere else.
Usually, these people end up miserable forever. They botch up their life for no reason, and when they move on, they become all miserable again.
These stories happen to people who don’t think of the consequences.December 28, 2010 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #973301
Flowers, unfortunately these things happened when women were unhappy way before the internet was invented. When women are unhappy opportunity finds away to find them with or without the internet.December 28, 2010 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #973302
Some women are just plain evil, and have no one to blame but themselves.December 28, 2010 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #973303mikehall12382Member
why not, she controls everthing else in the house 🙂December 29, 2010 4:20 am at 4:20 am #973304shev143Member
I thought woman were not allowed to wear pants, it appears your woman is clearly wearing the pants in your house.December 29, 2010 11:08 am at 11:08 am #973306
“Flowers, unfortunately these things happened when women were unhappy way before the internet was invented. When women are unhappy opportunity finds away to find them with or without the internet.”
You gotta wonder then what the fuss is about the internet anyway, since according to you, anyone who wants to do wrong will find a way without the net too. And those that don’t want to do wrong, won’t be affected the net.December 29, 2010 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #973307
Flowers- sorry wrong address. Aries wrote that post.December 29, 2010 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #973308
Firstly, this thread really answered the question of another thread which was the gender issue. We can easily tell here who are the males and who are the females!!
Secondly, the problems we are discussing here were NOT invented by the internet. Today’s problems and issues were also problems and issues decades ago. These things happened before internet, before PC and Macs, even before cell phones and beepers. Are they more prevalent today? Maybe or maybe we know about it more because technology has a way of passing along information quicker and more readily. Does it happy more today? Maybe that’s true too because we certainly are a more selfish society and a more “me” oriented society where we need instant gratification and we think everything is disposable even marriages and relationships. People think that “they” come first and they put their own needs before those of their spouse and their children. That is the main problem. If they understood the true meaning and value of the relationships they have, they would definitely last longer and would be cherished, and treated with the respect the relationship deserves.December 29, 2010 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #973309
You raise a good point, Aries. A generation ago, there was much less emphasis on “always feeling good, whatever the cost”, so people were somewhat more likley to accept the lot that was theirs.
Contrast that with today’s message; “you can do and be whatever you want”, at the smallest provocation, an unhappy camper is apt to go looking for “fun”
And the tech / communication revoloution only made it easier.
And my all time favorite quote about on-line trouble: “a person’s judgement at 2:00 am is not the same as it would probably be at 2:00pm”
When it comes to these sort of things, its more likley a women can excercise good judgement, than can a man in the same situation.December 29, 2010 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #973310apushatayidParticipant
The non jews have a saying. Women think with their head….. (vihameyvin yavin).December 29, 2010 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #973311
Whatever sayings the non-Jews have, are usually backwards.December 29, 2010 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #973312
Not in this case, TMB.. not in this case! Here, they are right on target. Perhaps not the choice of words I feel comfortable with, but they surely nailed it with brutal accuracy.December 29, 2010 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #973313
The saying I used to hear was men decide using intellect and women decide using emotion. Or something like that.December 29, 2010 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #973314
Maybe in financial / logistical things.
Not in the topic we’re discussing here.December 29, 2010 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #973316arcParticipant
BPT is correct and the saying is very accurateDecember 29, 2010 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #973317
TMB, I really don’t want to go to battle with you, just curious why so negative all the time?December 30, 2010 12:29 am at 12:29 am #973318
You are articulate and insightful, but I stand by what I said. For one thing, if, as we believe, that men have a harder time and are much more prone to this type of behavior, then it is more men who would be doing bad things with or without the internet. A whole lot more than the women.
People are unaware of how strong the yetzer hara is. And how sneaky. At first everything is “I’m careful”. I would never do something bad. Then the first time someone does something even a little bad, the person feels terrible, and says never again. But the yetzer is strong, and there comes a second time too. With each time, it gets just a teansy bit easier, until there is no longer a battle. And of course when there is no battle anymore, it means the person lost the battle. This can happen to the strongest man or woman. The one who davens erlich, learns a lot (if it’s a man), says tehillim etc. The tzadik or tzadeikis!! My point is, a woman who won’t go out looking for trouble, might get into trouble by having the internet in her home!!!
There is a joke, “A clean house is a sign of a broken computer”.
For those who think it’s no big deal if a woman spends too much time online, think again. The kids suffer, the husband suffers, and the women herself suffers.
Imagine a woman who doesn’t have children after being married many years (or some other tzorah). If she needs something to do, to distract herself, she may take out a tehillim and cry to Hashem. Or, she will go shopping. Or go out with friends. Not so with a computer. She can spend hours online, and it’s a waste of precious time, even if she doesn’t do anything wrong. And don’t make the mistake. A woman is not immune to the yetzer hara.December 31, 2010 6:10 am at 6:10 am #973320
Flower, yes she or he can spend hours on line on the computer, OR they can spend hours on the phone. OR they can do what they used to and meet at a hotel, in the city, go to an x-rated movie theater, go to a red light district, etc.
Way before your time there was an x rated movie theater around the corner from Mirrer Yeshiva. Many moons ago there was a sheitel macher in Brooklyn who set unhappy married women up with all too willing men. I know, I once sold sheitlech and I got a phone call from a man asking me if I would set him up. I was so shocked and shaken up I hung up on him and called my husband. I was so disgusted. I hadn’t heard about this woman but he had heard the rumors. I wanted to close down my business but he said he needed the financial help and asked me to forget about it.
This all happened way before anyone even dreamed of a computer. So it will happen whether one has the internet of not. If someone is unhappy in their marriage and they want to find a way to get some happiness in their lives, they don’t need a computer to do it. Does the internet make it easier? Sure, it makes everything easier, but again even those who don’t have a computer will find their way to happiness if they want to.December 31, 2010 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #973321
“If someone is unhappy in their marriage and they want to find a way to get some happiness in their lives, they don’t need a computer to do it. Does the internet make it easier? Sure, it makes everything easier, but again even those who don’t have a computer will find their way to happiness if they want to”
You missed my point, and I won’t explain it again.
However, I do strongly object to your using the word “happiness”. You can call it pleasure, addictions, get relief from pain or many other words. But happiness they do not get.
I have a cd called “The road to happiness” by Rabbi Frand. He asks if happiness means pleasure, and said that the celebrities in hollywood seek nothing but pleasure, yet, they are not happy at all. I heard a BT speak who used to work with celebrities from Hollywood and said “they are the most miserable people on earth.”December 31, 2010 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #973322
And btw, ARIES, there was something in your post that I never heard of. The things I read on YWN boggles the mind!!! This is a frum site, why should I be learning about some garbage that until now I never heard of? People ought to post in a more subtle way. There is no reason to be so explicit.December 31, 2010 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #973323
Aries, you’re forgetting about all those people who were in very happy marriages.
That is, until they saw something/someone online and got pulled into a trap which looked too exciting to resist.
This is the Churben of the internet.
It gives innocent people a whole new and very easy way to become influenced and pulled away.December 31, 2010 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #973324apushatayidParticipant
I dont think anyone agrees or disagrees over the potential pitfalls one can sink into via the internet. Those pitfalls have always existed, for both men and women. The internet has provided for much easier access and more importantly, it removes a level of “busha” due to the anonymity it provides. I dont think it is a good idea for anyone to be the sole keeper of internet access. Everyone needs a shomer, some might require two or three and others may need help not to relapse. Either way, in any household, like everything else that goes on in the household, both the husband and wife, mother and father have to agree on a course of action, agree on the plan to execute that course of action and then work together to execute that plan. In my home, the PC has user profiles set up for the various family members. Each user profile is allowed specific access to specific applications. No user has access to the browsers installed as it is password protected. Depending on the browser (we have IE, Safari and Chrome installed) half a password is controlled by me, my wife and 2 of my older children. Some combination of any 4 of us is required to open a browser (the application is password protected) and go online, this way, nobody in the family can get online without the knowledge of at least one other family member.
How this was set up is due to a techie friend who knows how to do these things, I have no clue. On top of the password protection, I have K9 and Malwarebytes that logs all visited sites (with K9 blocking sites we dont want and Malwarebytes looking to block specific types of sites). Both K9 and Malwarebytes are available free.December 31, 2010 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #973325
I changed my mind about not explaining.
I guarantee you more than 95% of the sheitel machers in brooklyn didn’t receive the kind of phone call you did. And you know of ONE sheitel macher who did this. If there were more, there were very very few. Well, this “sheitel macher” of today are in 1000’s of peoples homes.
Futhermore, for a frum woman to do this, no matter how unhappy she is, she has to have very weak hashkafos and/or be sick in the head.
Not so online. One can be completely anonymous online. One can just “chat”. No big deal. Which is a vast differences from being willing to meet a strange man in person set up by this sheitel macher doing who knows what.
After a long time chatting with one person they selected, feelings can take over, logic flies out the window, and then all hovac can break lose.
And indeed these things happen even to women with good marriages.
And it’s very poshut to understand that having access to bad places in your own home, is vastly different than going out to the places you mentioned. They are many miles apart.December 31, 2010 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #973326
flowers, you don’t need to explain this to me, you have yet to travel where I have already been. Obviously I am way older than you are and I have way more experience than you do. My point is that these problems are nothing new. These problems existed way before you knew about them. AND in 20 years when there will be something newer than the internet, people in difficult situations will use that technology to help them with their troubles. When people are hurting and unhappy they will search for ways to make them feel better.
And unfortunately there were more than one frum sheitel macher involved and I was in my early 20’s when this was going on. I was very naive and shaken up. I didn’t believe it but quickly found out it was true. Can you imagine a young vabel with 3 small children trying to help her husband with parnasah getting such a disturbing phone call. I was shaking and crying the rest of the day. So at the time the telephone was THE technological culprit and to me it was burning like fire. Understand that the person on the other end was anonymous!!!! There was no caller ID. Only when they chose to reveal who they were did they become a real person. So in a sense it was the same technology in a different form.
Any man could make a phone call to any BP or Flatbush home during the day and strike up a conversation. If a woman hung up, they went on to another number and no one knew who he was. Mind you there were a lot more young women at home caring for their children at that time. Predators have their ways and their scripts figured out way in advance.
I am not arguing with you that it is very easy on the internet. But at that time the phone was easy too. This thread is about having “guards” set up. You feel that women can’t be trusted. I feel that women who are happy can be trusted. WE DISAGREE. I do not know of any women who were truly happy in their marriage who gave that up for the thrill of the unknown. NOT in a frum Jewish marriage. I happen to know of many unhappy women who STILL stay married and do not look for trouble even thought they are unhappy.January 1, 2011 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #973327
“You feel that women can’t be trusted. I feel that women who are happy can be trusted. WE DISAGREE.”
Actually, this is not what we disagree with. I happen to think women can be trused. At least a whole lot more than men.
If you look at my previous posts you will see that what I disagree with is your premise that a happy woman won’t fall prey to the net, while an unhappy woman, if she is susceptible to the net, she will be susceptible finding bad outlets without the net too. I dont believe that is true at all.
Your story about someone calling you proves nothing.
Just the fact you received that phone call, changes your perception, but may not be reality. Just like a person who is mugged will believe crime went up, even if crime really went down.
1. as I mentioned before, I guarantee most sheitel machers didn’t receive such a call.
2. It was ONE man who called you.
3. It was a MAN who called, not a female client who requested help in finding someone.
Sure these things are not new. But there is no comparison to sick men randomly makinig phone calls, (and randomly finding a woman in a vulnerable state), which most frum women likely hung up on, and having a source in the home for those who need an outlet by looking for someone to talk. It was not women who were calling men on the phone!!
And the internet is ADDICTIVE. I saw a cartoon that says it all. A message popped up on the computer screen, “you have been online for one year, would you like to get off and get a life?”.June 24, 2011 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #973328real-briskerMember
Bump, Klach You started this one too.June 24, 2011 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #973329adorableParticipant
was just reading some of the old posts on here. its so sadJune 24, 2011 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #973330s2021Member
” it can be addicting even on Kosher sites… “
True. But you don’t go to gehenom for broswing/ downloading 1500+ cc cookie recipes
Posted 6 months ago #
bpt that was the funniest line on the whole thread. Thanks 4 the laugh!June 24, 2011 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #973331veteranMember
klach aitzel moirehJune 26, 2011 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #973332klachMember
My R”Y said his wife has total control and that we should be that way too.June 27, 2011 12:53 am at 12:53 am #973333klachMember
the internet is a massive toeivahJune 27, 2011 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #973334adorableParticipant
s2021- thanks for posting that line again! FUNNYSeptember 9, 2013 2:53 am at 2:53 am #973335
“True. But you don’t go to gehenom for broswing/ downloading 1500+ cc cookie recipes”
Theres a mishna in kesubos that says that it is very dangerous for a woman to not have constructive activities to be engaged in. Downloading 1500 recipes seems like having a lack of said activities.
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