Should we try to encourage Mashichists and Elokists to return to the fold?
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Tagged: Who can shtech better?
- This topic has 361 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 10 months ago by TS Baum.
May 25, 2022 11:35 am at 11:35 am #2090791
“And [t]o get to the superiority claim, the people that have issues with Chabad, even the gedolim, just don’t speak in the same terms as Chabad. So it makes specific questions impossible. And then Chabad says, “you just don’t understand. We know better.” It’s not a bias as much as a language barrier.”
The purpose of language is to enable sharing of complex information, so it kind of defeats the purpose to redefine words to one’s own liking and then blame others for misunderstanding. “Oh! It’s your fault I poured water on your head, because in Avram-in-MDese “please pass the potatoes” means “pour water on me”. And if you say that the terminology is consistent within Chabad itself and they know what they’re talking about, I have two responses: #1 it is wrong to separate from the rest of klal Yisroel, and #2 seemingly at least some in Chabad have also failed to adopt or understand the redefinitions, hence the meshichists and elohists.May 25, 2022 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #2090797
“Is there any contemporary that you’ve read on the six mitzvos? The classics are to terse, or hard to imagine into our thinking. I want to claim, that I am not saying any chiddush at all in these foundational mitzvos. If we would start from the sources it would never end. So can you pick something for me to be in line with?”
Declaring that you’re not saying a chiddush does not punt the burden of proof onto me. Our disagreement is not with the six mitzvos themselves, but whether one can disregard those six mitzvos and even further disregard any belief in Hashem at all, and still be within the bounds of the Torah.May 25, 2022 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #2090798
I never said that teimonim aren’t “reliable” or “valid”, i explained in that thread that i used a poor choice of words, and that was never my intent.
My criticism is not based on “how my community does things”
No group of jews ever believed that putting boxes on clueless frei people with the status of goyim or captured babies brings the geulah. Sefardim, chasidim, and litvaks, stress learning, chessed, avoiding lashon hora, and the like, as ways of bringing the geulah. They also never said “do a mirzvah and bring moshiach”
We do mitzvos for Hashem, not to bring the geulah. His whole ideology is self-created.
You’re only buttressing the theory that you’re lubavitch, wherein anyone who’s not lubavitch is “other”.May 25, 2022 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #2091028
Avira – Again you take my words in the wrong direction!
I said you would think twice about the rebbe being Moshiach as opposed to rav shach, who, yes, learned a lot of Torah, was a rosh yeshiva with a magnificent aron kodesh, and all the stuff…
But the Rebbe I am confident to say he prepared the world for Moshiach. Whether he himself is, I truly don’t know, and nobody knows.
Anybody who says that the rebbe did little to brin Moshiach, is just ignorant. If somebody knows the extent of the Rebbe, & his Shluchim, you’ll learn a thing or two.May 25, 2022 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #2091030
“the overwhelming majority of whom stayed frei or weren’t reached by shluchim. Putting leather boxes on clueless people with the halachik status of goyim or captured babies does little to bring the geulah, I’m sorry.”
I’m sorry to inform you, there are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of stories from baalei teshuva who became frum from putting on tefillin once, and there are even stories of people who just noticed lubavitchers putting tefillin on yidden, and by that they got inspired and that started their journey home.
I think if you want the video titled “The Tefillin Campaign” from chabad.org your whole perspective will change a lot. I can understand your view, but I also understand tha view is comign from somebody who is igorant in things regarding the Rebbe.May 26, 2022 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #2091162
The Rebbe was a major marbetz torah. To yeshivaliet also. Besides for helping Torah VDas and Chaim Berlin stay open. And that’s not counting all the talmidim of Rav Aaron and the old Mirrers who went to farbraing. Not many Rebbes could learn like him.May 26, 2022 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #2091165
If the Rebbe is still an option to be mashiach, then why not Dovid Hamelech? Does the Rebbe have to start breathing again before he can be proven to be mashiach?May 26, 2022 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #2091166
“…….and then to blame others….”
Point #1 It’s not separating from anyone. It’s different approaches to normalizing kabbalah. Now, you could think they have it wrong. We could even go so far as to disagree with the Baal HaTanya. But, as outsiders we can’t tell Chabad how to learn. I’m sure any group could critique something about every group’s teachings.
Point # 2 Agreed. I then said a chiddush that on those individuals it does not make them outside the pale. They are just making a mistake. I also posted a while back, that it is Chabad’s issue that they have some that misconstrue Chabad’s teachings. Other communities, would give such types an ultimatum, that is not the Chabad way. You can think that they are very wrong for such an approach, and I may agree with you. But we can’t tell them to change. It’s basically asking Chabad not to be Chabad.May 26, 2022 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #2091421
“It’s not separating from anyone … But, as outsiders”
🤔May 26, 2022 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #2091462
Ts – BTs have had “aha” watershed moments from all sorts of things. I know a guy who was inspired by a pastor, another guy who was drawn in by a reform rabbi with hair down to his navel.
I’m sure many, many people had a moment with the tefilin. But the majority, overwhelming majority, take a selfie and never think about it again
And they don’t get credit or olam haba for it either, because they have no knowledge of the mitzvah, metzaveh, or even what the tefilin are. Not to mention half of the time it’s in full view of immodestly dressed women.
Nomesorah; now I’m convinced you are or were chabad. Only in chabad do they teach these fairy tales about how the lubavitcher rebbe saved the entire world. What did he do to keep chaim berlin lr other yeshivos open?
Rav shraga feivel mendelowitz saved a lot of yeshivos, including ner yisroel, but i bet you’ve never even heard of him. Rav aharon was opposed to the lubavitcher rebbe. My rebbe rav belsky said he was not a gadol in learning. I have no idea where these fables originated.
Many people went to him. Some satmar chasidim would “double dip”, even though the satmar rov called him a “meshuganeh”.
Many people in yeshivos went to JTS too. Really doesn’t mean anything.May 26, 2022 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #2091463
If you want to know what talmidim of rav aharon say about the lubavitcher rebbe… Lakewood is probably the most anti -chabad community in the northeast.May 26, 2022 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #2091490
avira – they do. They are removed from the geder of a karkafta who didn”t put on tefillin and become a head which did put on tefillin, making them zoche to olam habah.
From Shaarei Kedusha, Part 2, Shaar 8:
וכן מצות עשה להניח תפילין, אם היה קרקפתא דלא מנח תפילין מעולם, אינו קם בתחית המתים
Somebody who does put on tefillin, even once, wakes up for olam haboh.May 26, 2022 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #2091496
I have in fact heard of Rav Mendelovich. I’m not sure if you knew this, but Rav Nesanel Quinn (one of the first talmidim in the yeshivah) his mother started the nursery & kindergarten which grew into Torah Vodaas. And Fun Fact: Rav Quinn’s family was a Lubavitcher family sent by the Rebbe Rashab because they didn’t have children in Europe he said ‘Meshane makom meshane mazal’ (Change your place and your luck will change for the good). Travel to America and there you will have children.”
I’m not sure you knew that.
And it is a known fact, that bachurim from chaim berlin and torah vodaas would come to farbrengens often. I don’t know if you were of that age, so maybe you don’t remember because it didn’t happen to you.May 26, 2022 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #2091503
Chabad is doing well I’m Lakewood. There are Chabad families in Lakewood from when it was just a yeshiva town.May 26, 2022 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #2091498
Avira – I actually don’t care what the talmidim of rav aharon say about lubavtich, I don’t want to know, and it will be better unsaid.May 26, 2022 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #2091495
Avira – I try to be respectful, but you need to be respectful of tzaddikim who are much greater than you whom you cannot fathom.
IIt is simply unfathomable that he said the Rebbe wasn’t a gadol batorah.
Just watch a frabrengen, the rebbe literally rattles off sources after sources and sayings and teachings from all over Torah, it is pashut unfathomable to say such a thing.
From Rav Pinchos Hirschprung: “There are two things which set the Rebbe apart,” Rabbi Hirschprung cited. “The Rebbe’s Torah knowledge and that he is the true leader of the generation. Pinchas Hirschprung is not impressed by the title ‘gaon’ [Torah giant]. He knows who deserves the title. And I am telling you that there is nobody like the Rebbe, not only in our generation but even in earlier generations. I was with the gaon Rabbi Meir Shapiro in Lublin, with the gaon Rabbi Menachem Zemba, and all the gaonim of the previous generation. I found no one comparable to the Rebbe’s greatness in all areas of Torah.”May 26, 2022 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #2091509
Chaim Berlin had some internal conflict. They allowed the Rosh Yeshiva to maintain full control over the yeshiva. The Rebbe had a hand in the settlement. I’m assuming you know the Torah VDaas story.
Nobody is putting the Chabad Rebbe on the level of Rav SF”M in spreading Torah. But the scale of the Rebbe activities, is very impressive. Unlike today, the major yeshivos felt it their obligation to spread Torah all over the world. Where they missed, the Rebbe had someone there. Plus he was the only one who was building Torah behind the Iron Curtain?May 26, 2022 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #2091514
I appreciate your tone – I don’t mean to be disrespectful or hostile either. I am sharing my experiences and knowledge of what gedolim said and what i am aware of to be popular notions in chabad, both based on the lubavitcher rebbe’s leadership and otherwise.May 26, 2022 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #2091513
Source = chabad.orgMay 26, 2022 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #2091518
Well, we know how one talmid compared the Rayatz and Rav Aaron. Rav Aaron was very, very humble. Any real talmid of the R”Y zatzal has a real hard time criticizing anybody. Even those that deserve heaps of criticism. I’ve not heard them discuss Chabad much, but they all were very impressed once they met the Rebbe. Rav Belsky did tell me that the R”Y zatzal did not hold of the Rebbe. He quoted Rav Aaron about two other aspects of Chabad.
I did not say the Rebbe was able to learn like a Rosh Yeshiva. Rav Belsky had a very high bar for everything. Did you ever ask him if Rav Shach knew how to learn, or if he learned Rav Shach’s Torah?May 26, 2022 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #2091523
Ts, when referencing rav Shraga feivel i was not speaking to you, but rather to nomesorah’s claim that the lubavitcher rebbe swooped in to save everyone in the yeshiva world.
Torah vodaas had 2 roshei yeshiva who were chabad affiliated; rav Quinn, and rav kahaneh. Rav Quinn distanced himself from the last lubavitcher rebbe when he took over. He kept chabad minhagim, but did not approve of him.
Rav pam originally said that rav shach’s vocal opposition was for bnei eretz yisroel and that we shouldn’t mix in. Rav pam was extremely against machlokes, as is known. Towards the end of his life, when deviances became more known, he distanced himself too.
Re, going to farbrengins; he drew people from all sorts of backgrounds, including those of which who were opposed to him. Lots of people were inspired by him and he didn’t go around saying the kinds of things that are being discussed here – had he done so, he not only would not have attracted outsiders, but would have lost most of his constituents as well.
There were and are many geniuses who are adept at learning and have photographic memories; they’re not all gedolei torah.May 26, 2022 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #2091531
You posted a few days ago, ” Chabad uses the ‘you don’t understand’ with Satmar …. who very much do understand their language”.
Satmar is so far from the mainstream chassidus in terms of Toras Habesht and kabbalah that you’ve written your own retort. It’s like proving Telshe from Brisk.
Here is an example. The guf of a tzaddik. In normative kabbalah this means simply that the flesh and the blood are elevated to the point that the pull to earthly desires is lost, and they have a bodily desire for heavenly matters. In Chabad it means that the tziddkus of the the tzaddik is his actual reality and not his guf. You could have two people using the same term, and his a totally different implication. This is why the study of kabballah is sometimes done with a Master.May 26, 2022 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #2091533
This conversation is deteriorating rapidly. I never said anything like him saving the yeshiva world. There is plenty of room in this world for great people of all kinds. If none of them were controversial, than none of them would be great. I know this goes against your concept of
is the only way
and I’m sure that is what your rabbi meant to say
if not he wasn’t a real rabbi anyway
anyone who disagrees cannot come to play
only those who want to be just like me can stay
and Look! all that I can see
are saying exactly like me
But I’m sure it gets lonely with a lack of opinions to consider. Rumor has it, that you already passeled all the Gedolim on planet X! So you can try to find the Rishon who writes that controversial people is a characteristic of greatness. If you can’t accept that there is greatness beyond your sphere, it’s only your loss.May 26, 2022 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #2091534
Now could we get back to the books? I think your kidding when you posted that you could not find “Atzmus in a Guf” in Tanya. You know where to find it. Do you know where the Nefesh Hachaim says it?May 26, 2022 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #2091541
Avira – so how can you say ‘they didn’t hold of him’? What does that mean?
It’s pashut the rebbe was mamash a genius in Torah, look at his seforim & watch ferbrengens!
I don’t see how it helps anybody to repeat saying which were merely based upon their view and knowledge of lubavitch, and, much more about the Rebbe is known to us since the Rebbe passed away. Now we see the massive effects of the Rebbe’s outreach & intense caring for every Yid.
Maybe at that time, based on what they knew, they came to conclusions, but i’m sure if they knew what is known nowadays, his opinion would change.
Tell me how many gedolim who know lubavitch well, are still misnagdim and ‘don’t hold’ of the Rebbe? How many Chassidishe Rebbes nowadays are anti-lubavitch? You can hardly find one!
For example, satmar used to be very anti-chabad. Nowadays, the Rebbe is a sandek for a shliach whom is is staying by his son’s bris! It would be the thought of someone living under a rock to say, but r’ yoel was very anti lubavitch! How can that possibly be???
The answer is, because know most people understand and view lubavitch very differentl.May 26, 2022 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #2091549
Mr Baum – even in my more limited knowledge of everything than n0m I can find several errors/flaws/misinformation in your last post. But I also hear loud and clear that you’ve accepted this reality as yours and anything anyone says to refute it will get you to start up again with your sinas chinam diversion.
Hatzlacha.May 26, 2022 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #2091548
To return to the OP’s original question, I don’t know if there is a practical answer which can be done by us. The answer I would give, is to say tehillim, and daven for Moshiach all the time, and especially have kavannah after Shemoneh Esrei when you say
“יְהִֽי רָצֽוֹן מִלְּפָנֶֽיךָ, יְיָ אֱלֹהֵֽינוּ וֵֽאלֹהֵֽי אֲבוֹתֵֽינוּ, שֶׁיִּבָּֽנֶה בֵּֽית הַמִּקְדָּֽשׁ בִּמְהֵרָֽה בְיָמֵֽינוּ וְתַֽן חֶלְקֵֽנוּ בְּתֽוֹרָתֶֽךָ”!May 26, 2022 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #2091552
I would appreciate an answer. Does the Rebbe have to resume breathing, before he can definitely be proven to be moshiach?May 26, 2022 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #2091562
Yes, he would have to start breathing again if he would be Moshiach.
But it’s not impossible, It can happen through techiyas hameisim. Hashem has done techiyas hameisim in the past to certain individuals. It doesn’t have to be through the big techiyas hameisim which will happen.
What my problem with some of the ideas floating around is the possiblity.
It is clear in the Gemara Sanhedrin 98b:
“אָמַר רַב אִי מִן חַיָּא הוּא כְּגוֹן רַבֵּנוּ הַקָּדוֹשׁ אִי מִן מַתְיָא הוּא כְּגוֹן דָּנִיאֵל אִישׁ חֲמוּדוֹת”
Btw, I want to pose a question to everybody: Why did Rav say if he is from the dead, it will be daniel, why daniel? If we want to say that we want somebody from the earlier generations, then why not say Moshe Rabbeinu? And if we want somebody from the latest generation, what happened to Rabbi Akiva, the Rashbi, and all the other huge talmidei chachamim and tzaddikim? R’ Shimon Bar Yochai sat in a cave for more than a decade and just sat and learned, why didn’t Rav refer to him as Moshiach Min Meisa?May 26, 2022 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #2091569
He needs to be from Malchus Beis Dovid.May 26, 2022 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #2091571
I’m not asking you to prove anything. I’m asking for a baseline. Simply put, we could just throw out the idea that one could be in line with the six mitzvos by nominal noncommittal agreement. And then the whole concept of false beliefs would really fall apart. I would violently reject such a statement, but I can’t prevent someone from arguing it. That’s why we need a baseline.May 26, 2022 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #2091568
About the mishichistim: they have no right to call the Rebbe Moshiach if we don’t know who it is
About the Elokistim: They are all meshuganes I don’t know what to say about them, they’re minds are twisted, and this topic I don’t believe will help. I said above what I think everybody should do.May 26, 2022 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #2091578
The fight about Lubavitch has ended. Not because of agreement or acceptance. But because Chabad does not need the other groups. And Chabad is not like Reform that necessitated schism. It is silly to think that all the Gedolim are in agreement with the Rebbe on everything. The Rebbe’s work when he was alive made it possible to not have to rehash it all today. So it is mostly left alone.May 26, 2022 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #2091579
In truth you refuted your own point about not hearing of other Gedolim today, who do not hold of the Rebbe. You posted a few times, that just to post grievances that won’t change anything are sinas chinam.May 26, 2022 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #2091583
Nom – no, please enlighten us where in any hebrew book, even from someone off like the meor aynayim, is there a statement that a tzadik is the essence of god wrapped in a body.
It’s not in tanya. It’s not in the nefesh hachaim.
You can clearly find it in the notes from the council of nicea.May 26, 2022 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #2091592Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Avira > No group of jews ever believed that putting boxes on clueless frei people with the status of goyim or captured babies brings the geulah
I was first bothered by your erudite criticism of specific Torah approaches, but now I realize you shoot anything that does not correspond to what people in your kevutza approve. This one is probably the most repugnant – you are not just taking on some intellectual with a different shitah, but denigrating both klal Isroel in general and those people who care about them. Skilah shnei tziporim b’ makah ahas, as they say.May 26, 2022 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #2091593
It says kgon daniel, which means it will be someone analogous to him. That gemara is also not brought in ANY of the rishonim’s descriptions of moshiach, including the ramban maamar al hageulahMay 26, 2022 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #2091617
Tanya chapter 2.
Nefesh Hachaim gate 1 note 4.May 26, 2022 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #2091625
It’s the second note in chapter 4.May 27, 2022 12:38 am at 12:38 am #2091640
We’re not talking about chelek eloka mimaal – that’s a concept that’s discussed everywhere in any machshava sefer that’s after kabalas ha’ari.
Nice try. A piece of godliness placed in a Jewis not the same as saying that specifically a rebbe is the essence of god. Actually, the tanya says there משיח’ שהם בחי’ עקביים ממש לגבי המוח והראש וכן בכל דור ודור יש ראשי אלפי ישראל שנשמותיהם הם בחי’ ראש ומוח לגבי נשמות (that may not have pasted well), that EVERY jew has the chelek eloka, from the avos down to the amhaaratzim; he explains how every part of klal yisroel is compared to higher and lower parts of the body.
The exact opposite of the lubavitcher rebbe’s claim that a tzadik has a special godliness when compared to someone else.
Neither says that you can daven at the graves of a tzadik because a tzadik is the essence of god wrapped in a body.May 27, 2022 8:25 am at 8:25 am #2091649
AAQ, it’s not outside my kevutzah; chabad are the only Jews who think there’s value in getting random frei people to put tefilin on once, and that this brings the geulah.May 27, 2022 8:28 am at 8:28 am #2091653
My opinion? Nobody should ever daven by any kevarim. How many people called Rav Shimon, the Godly teacher last week? I don’t know the Rebbe’s opinion on kevarim.May 27, 2022 8:29 am at 8:29 am #2091654
This is the first gate, not the fourth. Therefore, this only is accessible to the yid that reaches to all the upper levels. The next line says clearly that this is the tzaddik. And it says that he is the beis hamikdash mamash, and Hashem is within him.May 27, 2022 8:39 am at 8:39 am #2091668GefilteFishParticipant
“The fight about Lubavitch has ended. Not because of agreement or acceptance. But because Chabad does not need the other groups. And Chabad is not like Reform that necessitated schism.”
I think unfortunately that it’s quite the opposite.
At least in Eretz Yisrael, the “fight” has ended because the meshichisters have won.
They have become accepted as the legitimate representatives in Israel, at least de facto. There is only a question of how much to they emphasize their belief when they are trying to mekarev people.
But any time you see chabadskers in a park on Shabbos in Israel, they add yechi to the 12 pesukim.
All the gan yisrael camps are meshichist. (I’ve personally investigated 5 and found them that way; and I asked a few people who work in gan yisrael to research more about them. They told me that at this point, more than 70% of the gan izzies are openly meshichist, and they believed the rest just don’t say it publicly.)
I am involved with baalei teshuva in israel, and they travel all over and end up in chabad houses everywhere. Everytime I asked these guys about the chabad houses, they all have said that they are meshichists.
If you walk into any shul and see the parsha sheets from chabad, all you will see are the meshichists.
I have a few friends who are “normal” chabad from america. They made aliyah and were trying to find schools for their kids that weren’t under the meshichist influence. They couldn’t find any.
They said they tried partnering up with a few other families to start a “normal” chabad school.
Everyt ime they tried, they got back the answer: “we already have a chabad school here, why do we need a second?”
When they finally sent their kids to schools that weren’t “officially” meshichist, their boys were made fun of for not wearing a yehi kippah.
And all of this is besides the fact that the Tzfas chabad are regular speakers at events all over Israel.
There is no reason that Chabadskers are willing to associate- and honor- speakers who openly believe the rebbe is HKBH r”l.
When people ask why are we “wasting our time” protesting chabad, and why don’t we just mind our own business, we point to the above.
Besides caring about other yidden and not wanting them to be ensnared in apikorus, I have to worry about my kids.
Chabad actively recruit the frum communities, especially the kids.
My kids would love to take part in the Lag Ba’Omer parade that chabad runs.
But I know and have confirmed that part of the parades around my area include saying the pesukim- including yehi.
And last year they honored a “mashpiah” from tsfas to help lead the parade.
So we can’t just say “let’s avoid machlokes.”
As long as mechishisters are the de facto chabad representatives here in Israel- with no public dissent from the “normal” chabad- and as long as they are expanding their influence and trying to “mashpiah” on regular frum kids, then we have no choice but to protest.
Halevai that normal chabadsker would be more vocal and actually be recognized as the “legitimate branch” of Chabad, so we could marginalize these crazies and support all the good guys.
I’d love to focus on all of the good Chabad does, and support their kiruv movements.
But as long as meshichisters are running things here, we can’t do that.May 27, 2022 10:25 am at 10:25 am #2091690
Your rant fails on two points.
1. Legitimate representatives in Israel. To whom are they representing Chabad? Your saying they are basically a new version of Chabad. So then it has nothing to do with the Rebbe, or the mainstream Chabad.
2. Jews in Israel having silly and messianic ideas, is widespread.Rav Mattisyahu Solomon, never denounced the Lakewood-Tzfas group as illegitimate. Maybe mainstream Chabad is following his example.May 27, 2022 10:39 am at 10:39 am #2091704
It wasn’t a rant. And you seem to be mirroring the democrat practice of mislabling something to make it so. Like calling inflation the putin price hike to hypnotize listeners to believe that’s the source. You take these huge statewide issues and call them a few crazies. You alter the reality he has presented to be something insignificant and then make him look silly for caring.
Gefilte – I hear you. And not because I have sina issues, and neither do you. Live and let live is not a Jewish concept.May 27, 2022 11:54 am at 11:54 am #2091718
You want to discuss kiruv and so on I’m right ahead. It’s very merry.May 27, 2022 11:55 am at 11:55 am #2091717
Representing whom? Nobody but themselves.
Where still waiting for the yeshiva to call out their own.May 27, 2022 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #2091739Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Avira > chabad are the only Jews who think there’s value in getting random frei people to put tefilin on once, and that this brings the geulah.
your mind always focusing on finding where someone is wrong. Naturally, your sharp mind finds it in any group you believe are wrong. Rinse, repeat. I know a lot of ehrliche yidden, ranging from moschihists to normal Chabad to non-Chabad to anti-Chabad who were educated by Chabad shluhim. Some were indeed first stopped on campus by “excluse me, are you Jewish”, others came to shul themselves.
I am sure these shluchim will get their reward in olam habo, even if they obnoxious or ignorant in some other ways. I hope, but less sure, that you’ll get reward for your sharp opinions. There are a lot of opinions saying that value of Torah learning is devalued by personal shortcomings.May 27, 2022 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #2091746
“your mind always focusing on finding where someone is wrong. ”
Says the man who accuses every learner of having potential middos and finance issues
“There are a lot of opinions saying that value of Torah learning is devalued by personal shortcomings.”
If only your watering down of torah and lauding those who do would bother you quite as much.
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