Shower on Yom Tov

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  • #695942

    charliehall
    Participant

    We get rid of every bit of chametz in the house and we don’t sign any contract since we don’t have any chametz to sell!

    #695943

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Sacrilege, why are those poor examples? Why aren’t they parallel? If anything, those items are LESS important to every day life so we should be able to live without them even more.

    And you didn’t answer the question. Are you willing to give them up?

    #695944

    yehudaF1
    Member

    What I find quite interesting is that not only do some people not shower on Yom Tov (and for some reason they like to sit next to me in shul), but they also don’t want others to shower as well. Misery loves company?

    #695945

    Sacrilege
    Member

    SJS – the reason they are bad examples is because:

    Eiruv – if you have an eiruv you can carry, its not getting around carrying, if you have one (a kosher one not some “telephone wire” eiruv) then carrying is permitted a simple A then B equation.

    Shabbos Clock – I dont even see where this is on the same wave- length, were is the logic the same? You are doing no malacha you arent going to become over on a malacha. So what would be the problem?

    Selling Chometz – This is the only one that MAY be SLIGHTLY similar in that you are trying to get around something. While I do believe that this is more of a minhag type thing than anything else, personally I am not so comfortable selling chometz, my family does it, so I do it.

    And all of these things I could live without.

    The main problem with showers is that you are a hairsbreadth of being over a d’oraisa and SO MANY people have NO problem with that! you press down on the towel a little bit too hard and you are over schita, I promise you, you wont die if you dont take a shower for 3 days. And your schar will be infinitesimal.

    #695946

    you are a hairsbreadth of being over a d’oraisa …you press down on the towel a little bit too hard and you are over schita

    that is completely untrue

    there is no problem whatsoever of sckita with drying your hair with a towel since you are squeezing liquid from a solid into a solid. it is the same exact concept as squeezing a lemon into solid food.

    the problem only arises if you squeeze your hair onto the floor. and then it is not d’Oraisa, because you dont want the water.

    #695947

    i retract the absoluteness of my previous statement:

    Rav Sternbuch shlita pointed out that custom is nevertheless to be stringent because it is hard to make sure that water not drip onto the floor.”

    #695948

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Sacrilege, I don’t shower. Mostly out of ignorance though because I don’t know the full details. Growing up, my best friend’s family (much more frum than mine and very halachic) all showered on Yom Tov. They knew the halachic details.

    Doesn’t R’ Moshe say that you shouldn’t use a shabbos clock to turn on air conditioners? And possibly other things?

    And if your Rav says showering by doing XYZ is kosher, then why should someone be machmir? Because you don’t agree? Should I not cut anything on Shabbos because I may end up cutting things too fine? There is a reason we follow our rabbonim. They tell us how to apply halacha to our lives. If they give us the details on HOW to shower, why shouldn’t you shower?

    #695949

    WIY
    Member

    charliehall

    You dont sell your Chameitz?

    #695950

    i believe charlie said that they get rid of all their chametz so there is nothing left to sell

    It really hasn’t been a burden to eat it all up, or give it to a non-Jew.

    #695951

    Sacrilege
    Member

    Thank you MOD for clearing up the details in Scheta, I went back and reviewed and realized I did have them confused.

    The problem is can you ensure that you wont drip one drop on the floor making you over on sechita, and for what, to say that you took a shower?

    SJS, yes, R Moshe holds you cant use timers for Air Conditioners, but if you are going according to R’ Moshe on this you should prob go according to him on everything else, do you also know that he didnt endorse of Dor Yeshorim?

    Also, the logic of my “best friend who is much frummer than I” never flies with me… My boss who isnt frum has nicer middos than 98.9% of frum people I know, so what?

    #695952

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Sacrilege, I didn’t say I hold by R’ Moshe about A/C timers (although we don’t set timers for ours, they are either on or off). And I didn’t do Dor Yeshorim – I’m not really a fan of it.

    I added in the “very halachic.” Her family is very stringent in halacha. And they come from a long line of very distinguished rabbonim. Her father has smicha. He knows halacha and makes sure his entire family follows it. They took showers on Yom Tov. They did it properly.

    In addition, my husband has really short hair. He doesn’t even need to towel off his hair. So that removes the schitah issue no?

    Now, I don’t think there is any way for me to be able to deal with my hair on yom tov. Its long, thick, curly and stays wet forever. Its virtually impossible to contain the water that drips out. I also can’t brush my hair with even my fingers because it knots/breaks. But I never discussed this with my rav and maybe he would have a solution.

    But I don’t expect others to not shower based on my ignorance.

    #695953

    Sacrilege
    Member

    SJS – not a fan of preventing babies and young children untold suffering and painful deaths, with a simple blood test?

    #695954

    cherrybim
    Participant

    I wish some courageous Talmud Chacham would publish an English sefer listing all legitimate heteirim (ikor hadin); it would be a best seller.

    #695956

    haifagirl
    Participant

    i believe charlie said that they get rid of all their chametz so there is nothing left to sell

    It really hasn’t been a burden to eat it all up, or give it to a non-Jew.

    And if there’s a crumb somewhere in the house he didn’t know about? (And I know a lot of people who have found stuff larger than a crumb.) Then he owned chametz on Pesach. And the chametz that is absorbed in his keilim? Or does he kasher everything that can be and break what can’t be?

    To charliehall: Have you asked a rav about this policy of yours?

    #695957

    haifa i “think” youre right that the Poskim say that everyone should do mechira.

    im not sure your logic is exactly correct though.

    do you sell chametz that you dont know about? im not sure but i believe you only sell that chametz of which you are aware. we rely purely on bitul for the chametz we dont know about (again, i think)

    the blios in the kailim. certainly they are included in the sale, but in truth i believe that’s just sort of thrown in for good measure, does anyone actually want to buy the blios. just try someday to sell them to your goy neighbor, how would you even extract them from the pots to sell them. how could one make a kinyan on them?

    i think it may be complicated but your question to charlie is a good one. id be interested in the answer.

    #695958

    aries2756
    Participant

    Every woman who had to go to the Mikveh on Shabbos or Yom Tov knows the halachas involved in how “not to dry their hair or squeeze it”. Furthermore, every man who goes to the mikveh Shabbos morning or Yom tov morning knows this as well. So why should the halacha be different if one takes a shower? This discussion has gotten out of hand and out of control. The issue is not how to dry off but the concept of washing oneself to begin with and the answer once again is ask your own Rav.

    #695959

    haifagirl
    Participant

    do you sell chametz that you dont know about? im not sure but i believe you only sell that chametz of which you are aware. we rely purely on bitul for the chametz we dont know about (again, i think)

    Good question. I’ve e-mailed my rav. However, I do know he holds that when you sell your chametz you put down just your address and not the physical location (3rd cabinet from the right, top shelf of the pantry, etc.) in case you forget where you put something, in which case it wouldn’t be included in the sale. At least I think that’s what he said once before. I guess I’ll e-mail him again. 🙂

    #695960

    haifagirl
    Participant

    Okay. Got a reply.

    I wasn’t right about the location. He said the reason he doesn’t ask for it is because it’s not needed. Only the address is needed.

    And he also said:

    “Again, everyone should sell their chometz – regardless.

    “Less than a kezayis we’re mevatel.

    “We also sell any chometz we may not know about (even though in truth we are mafkir that too).”

    #695961

    theprof1
    Participant

    Charliehall, you have to sell the pots, pans, dishes etc because they all blias chometz. Otherwise you can’t use your dishes after pesach since each dish has a blia of mashehu and mashehu is ossur on pesach. Therefore all your dishes etc are all chometz kept after pesach. Rav Hersh Meisels ztz’l of Chicago was a major poisek years ago. He told my father that it was completely mutter to buy chometz before pesach and to sell it so that after pesach we wouldn’t have a problem with buying in the supermarket. Open jars and packages however are different and should not be sold. Charlie again, you have to sell your dishes and pots.

    #695962

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    I thought you davka don’t sell your keilim otherwise how would you guarantee their kashrus? A non-Jew owns them during Pesach and has the right to come in to use the chametz right?

    #695963

    blinky
    Participant

    My answer to the original Posters comment would be “Ba’al Teshaksu”

    #695964

    sj is right

    the custom is that you DO NOT sell your keilim. if you did you would have to toivel them as they previously belonged to a non Jew.

    what you sell are the absorptions within the keilim, but not the keilim themselves.

    the problem of Kashrus however would only be a problem if the goy actually removed the keilim from your control and sight.

    #695965

    theprof1
    Participant

    Yes I’m sorry I wasn’t more specific about only selling the bliah in the keilim, not the actual keilim. However, Charlie seemed to say that he makes no mechiras chometz contract at all. This would mean that the bliah of chometz in his keilim is oiver al pesach and ossur.

    #695966

    prof

    i figured you meant lav dafka, just wanted to clarify for SJ

    i believe that most Poskim hold you should do mechira even if you have no chametz mamish that you know about. see haifagirls response from her Rabbi (whom i happen to know and is completely reliable)

    but im not sure if your conclusion is correct as charlie would be mevatel the blios, and then he wouldnt own them during Pesach

    #695967

    charliehall
    Participant

    To all:

    I have discussed my lack of mechirat chametz with three different rabbis and they all endorse it enthusiastically! The bliah in the kelim is of no value to anyone (so selling it makes no sense), and the biur chametz takes care of any potential issur.

    Ideally none of us would sell any chametz; mechirat chametz was a post-Chazal kula (based indeed on sound sources within Chazal) intended primarily for merchants who faced financial ruin if they had to dispense with their entire inventory. I’m not a merchant so I don’t need to use that kula; instead I do the l’chatchila and get rid of all my chametz.

    #695968

    charliehall
    Participant

    An interesting story: A number of years ago on Shabat Hagadol I was at a Shabat meal where everyone was taking turns sharing their particular nutty Pesach chumrot. No gebrockts, only Jewish brands of food, not eating at others’ homes, no paper goods….as they got more and more extreme I was feeling left out because I don’t take on Pesach chumrot; I just follow the halachah as my rabbis teach me. (And I do ask shilahs!) Finally they got to me and I admitted that I didn’t take on any of those chumrot at all, but I did mention that I don’t sell chametz.

    Everyone at the table thought that *I* was the one who had gone overboard with Pesach chumrot!

    #695969

    charliehall
    Participant

    Sorry I meant the bitul chametz not the biur chametz which of course only works on chametz that is fit to be burned!

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