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- This topic has 29 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 3 months ago by Menachem Melamed.
October 16, 2011 11:56 am at 11:56 am #599967sea.shellsMember
are you allowed to make simanim for yourself?, lets say say to yourself, if this and this particular random thing happens then I will have such and such fall into my lap or this and this thing will occur if the random thing doesn’t happen… Someone once told me it’s a form of avoda zara not sure why though they also say it has some sort of koach hatuma to make signs for yourself. the scary thing is I’ve gotten into the habbit of doing it, and it actually works… does anyone know If it’s a bad thing how do I get out of it?October 16, 2011 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm #8540052scentsParticipant
No, your not permitted to do so.October 16, 2011 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #854006happiestMember
I kind of think it’s bargaining with Hashem. Might be wrong though…October 16, 2011 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #8540072scentsParticipant
It goes against tamim yihya I’m hashem.October 16, 2011 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #854008Sam2Participant
It’s an Issur D’Oraisa of Lo Senach’shu.October 16, 2011 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #854009ItcheSrulikMember
Depending on the type of siman, it can be several others as well.October 16, 2011 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #854010old manParticipant
1. It doesn’t work, you are deluding yourself.
2. This practice is absolutely forbidden. Stop it.October 17, 2011 12:24 am at 12:24 am #854011JotharMember
Banim yafeh misimanim.October 23, 2011 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #854012sea.shellsMember
it’s become a habbit of mine. I always thought it might be wrong when I started this…Any suggestions how I could stop??October 23, 2011 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #854013yitayningwutParticipant
If you want to stop, one way can be by making a ‘siman’ and then forcing yourself to go against it.
The halacha is not very clear-cut. It is found here (s’if 3 and 4):February 20, 2012 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #854015
Bump! I have the same problem… I didn’t think I’d find a thread on it. But I did!!
I understand the op however I think some of the posters here don’t…
My thing goes like this, I’m not sure if sth is going to happen and I want to find out if it will. So I make a simian, similar or the same as the op… For example, i say to myself if I get this password wrong then this and this business deal won’t go through, or if I get it right it will. I do this all the time, and it kinda works practically all the time!!! Is there sth behind this??? Im not deluding myself, there must be sth behind it!
I’m not sure what though… Is there a certain koach hatuma that allows this to occur???
It kind of freaks me out… Let’s say if I really want sth to happen and the simian keeps ‘showing’ that it won’t I keep doing it… But the outcome is always the same…
Noone try it though, it becomes a habit, once you start its hard to stop… I’m wondering is there maybe sth wrong with me for doing this like say a condition or sth??? It’s weird!
I though about asking a rav about it, but then I decided that here’s the best place… I’m not going to waste my Rav’s time with this soy of thing… Also it’s kind of embarrassing…February 20, 2012 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #854016popa_bar_abbaParticipant
banim adifi m’simanim.February 20, 2012 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #854017
What does that mean?February 20, 2012 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #854018
No, your not permitted to do so.
Too bad… I do this every day.
My personal siman is this: If I continue to breathe, keep living. If I stop, then stop.
The WolfFebruary 20, 2012 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #854019
This is an area of halocha where you could be transgressing a Torah prohibition. There is also a gray area, which might be allowed – depending on various factors. I urge you to ask a Rav. It is very risky to go through life without a Rav to ask. In addition if these types of things become compulsive they can be a sign of OCD, which is treatable. I suggest that anyone with these types of issues turn to the appropriate professionals for guidance.February 21, 2012 1:53 am at 1:53 am #854020longarekelMember
This is an issur d’oraisa and an insecurity issue. Get professional help.February 21, 2012 2:14 am at 2:14 am #854021
btw- this is my hubs user, although everyone uses it…-thanks e/o for your responses.
ocd, yeah-could be pos, I kinda suspected that…
I’m trasgressing a halacha in the torah, probably true, but what am I doing…-is it some kind of koach hatuma that allows me to do it.. ’cause it kindda works.. anyone know if there is some sort of kabalistic thingy behind it..
“It is very risky to go through life without a Rav to ask.” did I ever say tht I dnt hve a rav?February 21, 2012 3:00 am at 3:00 am #854023
This is an issur d’oraisa and an insecurity issue. Get professional help.
Posted 1 hour ago #
So if I am insecure, is there any way to overcome this? Any toradik perspective on this?February 21, 2012 6:45 am at 6:45 am #854024
Nevuchadnetzar did that. He shot an arrow up and noted the direction it pointed to when it landed.February 21, 2012 11:57 am at 11:57 am #854025
Please get help-
A Rav or Rebbetzin (preferablly with many years of experience) can advise you if you should see a therapist or if it is not necessary. If you have OCD it is treatable. People need to have a small group of wise people with whom to consult regarding life issues. Be careful to choose those in whom to confide carefully. May HaShem help you.February 21, 2012 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #854026
My personal siman is this: If I continue to breathe, keep living. If I stop, then stop.
This is an issur d’oraisa and an insecurity issue. Get professional help
It’s an issur ‘doraisa for me to continue living if I breathe??! OK, if you say so.
The WolfFebruary 21, 2012 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #854027ED IT ORParticipant
wolf, not to sound pessimistic but I think you are right on this one SO STOP BREATHING!February 21, 2012 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #854028
wolf, not to sound pessimistic but I think you are right on this one SO STOP BREATHING!
okayFebruary 21, 2012 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #854029
Wolf, now you’re down to D’oraisos! That’s way worse than not eating Shirayim Matzos or talking during Laining.February 21, 2012 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #854030ED IT ORParticipant
Lol!February 21, 2012 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #854031oomisParticipant
I always thought that giving a siman for something in advance is ok (i.e., Eliezer’s siman regarding if a girl would offer him water and offer to water his camels as well, that it would mean that she was the chosen bride for Yitzchak Avinu. However, it is assur to say after the fact of an occurrence,i.e., a bird suddenly flies overhead and lands on your shoulder, “Oh, that is a sign that such and such will happen.”February 22, 2012 1:34 am at 1:34 am #854032
However, it is assur to say after the fact of an occurrence,i.e., a bird suddenly flies overhead and lands on your shoulder, “Oh, that is a sign that such and such will happen.”
what about saying it before the ‘siman’ occurs?? is it ossur? so before the bird comes along you say if the bird lands on my shoulder that is a sign that such and such will happen.. then the bird either flies onto your shoulder or it doesn’t… then that would be your siman either way.. what makes it ossur??? does anyone know if there a kabbalistic thing behind it at all?, koach hatuma or sth..??? cause it’s really creapy that it wrks..February 26, 2012 10:28 am at 10:28 am #854033
Can the yetzer hare be causing these simanim to occur? Ok I’m going totally mad or I always was, choose between the two…
Let me explain, I once heard a shiur from rabbi wallerstein who said a story about a girl who was going out with a guy and everything on the date was going from bad to worse although they had been going out for awhile and really liked each other, she was concerned thar perhaps this was a simian that they were not meant to get married to each other… She told this to r’ wallerstien who said, perhaps it’s the yetzer hare preventing you from getting married to each other because the yetzer hara knows what great children will come out of it, and he’s doing eth in his power to Prevent it from occurring. The thing is she was saying the simanim after they occurred I’m talking about so ‘see’ if sth. Will happen, is there anything wrong with it??? And is there some form of cabalistic, coach hatuma in this that could make it issue???February 26, 2012 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #854034
Oomis, I can hear the difference. However, Eliezer is precisely the example quoted in Gemara for a Nichush.
The only question remains is, if that was the prime example of Nichush then how was he allowed to do it? (Especially, considering that he was an Eved Avraham, the greatest fighter against Avoda Zara.)
Tosafos answers that he depended on the Svara that if she was that kind then she’s obviously fit for Yitzchock. The Maharal answers that it was for a Mitzva and not for himself, and was therefore permitted.
The kind of Siman that is Muttar is to say in retrospect, ever since I moved here, or married her things got better. There are two reasons why this is OK. First, it’s all in the past and you aren’t basing your actions on it. Second, it is not a specific this-happened-so-therefore-that. It is a general change of Mazal, which can happen upon such events.
There is another Siman that is Muttar. You may point out that the day is just a bad Mazal day when you see that you are missing every train and bus.
There are other things, too, but it starts getting complicated. They are not well understood, or universally translated.
If a date is going bad, make it short and plan another one. The one Siman that is always Assur is when it has no connection. The example Chazal give is, a deer just crossed my path, therefore I’ll succeed. Don’t make up messages.
If you are not a Navi, chances are Hashem is not talking and winking to you. Hashem reserves the right to run His world without people deciferring what He really means. When there’s trouble, do Teshuva and Daven. When things are good, thank Him and do Mitzvos. Hashem is not in jail and doesn’t need to send send a pigeon. When there’s a message to be given He delivers it. You know when it is a message.February 26, 2012 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #854035
I said it before – please listen: Please get yourself a good Rav & or rebbetzin to speak to – the more experience the better. These are important issues and should not be treated lightly. Hatzlocha rabba.
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