January 6, 2018 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1443770
Would a single state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea with equal rights and citizenship for all residents be the best solution for Israel?January 6, 2018 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1443822David111Participant
Don’t really get it. Wanna put everyone in the ocean?January 6, 2018 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #1443826
No, it would incorporate all of Judea, Samaria and Gaza into Israel via annexation. And all residents would be equal citizens with the same legal rights.January 6, 2018 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1443830David111Participant
This is getting a little complicated for a Motsai Shabbos. Perhaps get working on it Monday morning?
Your definitely onto something BIG.January 6, 2018 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #1443850BaltimoreMavenParticipant
how could it be the best solution for Israel if the non-Jewish population could eventually outnumber the Jewish population?January 7, 2018 7:59 am at 7:59 am #1443879assurnetParticipant
Why not annex Yehuda an the shomron, grant civil protections to all non-Jewish citizens (i.e. you can’t rob or injure a goy, they have the same protection via police/ambulance/fire services as a Jew) but without voting rights or the ability to run for office? Isn’t that roughly what the Rambam says we should do anyway?January 7, 2018 8:03 am at 8:03 am #1443864akupermaParticipant
1. The secular Jews and the Palestinians would have an overwhelming majority opening up the possibility of fulfilling the zionist dream of a state where Jews could be free from the yoke of Torah (the עם חפשי they sing about in the zionist anthem).
2. Israel could “transfer” the Palestinians elsewhere, presumably the same way the goyim “transfered” the majority of European Jews in the mid-20th century – but that would alienate the countries that support Israel and probably lead to severe sanction or a UN-sponsored military action against Israel. Note that those who wanted to remove Jews from Europe ended up with the country leveled and their leaders swinging from gallows.
3. A single state including most of the Middle East (the plan the zionists and the Arabs agreed to 100 years ago, that was sabotaged by the Brits), with an autonomous Jewish entity would probably work. The key point is the Arabs have to feel secure that they are living in an Arabic Islamic state, even if it includes a Jewish province with its own military force. The secular Israelis would be nervous about Islamic law (similar to halacha on most social matters), and the religious nationalists see a separate state as a halachic requirement. Hareidim who don’t object to things such as banning abortion or gay rights, or giving up having an Israeli team at the Olympics or an Israeli girl at the MIss Universe contest, would support this arrangement – but Hareidim dropped out of politics after Jacob Israel de Haan was murdered and currently only worry about survival and bits of patronage.January 7, 2018 8:04 am at 8:04 am #1443865
There are only three possible solutions:
1. The single state solution of equal citizenship for all.
2. The two state solution of Israel and Palestine.
3. The apartheid state solution where the minority is denied equal rights/citizenship.January 7, 2018 8:05 am at 8:05 am #1443889MalachOfCholentParticipant
isn’t israel already a single state?
israel boasts about the fact that they give equal rights and let every religion practice peacefully.
it is definitely the best solution, way better that the PA ruling on part of israel when they promised that the jews by them will be second class citizens.January 7, 2018 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1443921refoelzeevParticipant
Agreed with BaltimoreMaven. The reason a single state solution with all having equal rights would destroy the concept of a Jewish state, as the majority would be Muslim. That’s why those who oppose a step state solution prefer the status quo.January 7, 2018 9:10 am at 9:10 am #1443919Avi KParticipant
1. It is not necessary to forcibly transfer anyone. Most Arabs in Yehuda v’ Shomron and 80% in Gaza have admitted that they would leave if they could. Many more probably would but won’t admit it. An international resettlement fund could be set up to pay them to relocate to countries that need immigrants with money (Germany, for example, still needs 800,000 workers). Those Arabs who hold Israeli citizenship state privately that they are not crazy enough to prefer to live in an Arab state. Even in public they scream whenever Lieberman talks about giving the PA the Triangle in exchange for settlement blocs.
2. What about our Ever haYarden?
3. Akuperma, you are forgetting the successful double transfer between Greece and Turkey following the Greco-Turkish War following WW1. There are approximately 1 million Jews in Europe and 1.5 million in the PA (their statistics have been shown to be greatly exaggerated). That would be a fair exchange.January 7, 2018 9:10 am at 9:10 am #1443933
Those against both a single state AND a two state resolution effectively support an apartheid state.January 7, 2018 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1443992BaltimoreMavenParticipant
“but Hareidim dropped out of politics after Jacob Israel de Haan was murdered and currently only worry about survival and bits of patronage.”
So hateful. I see Hareidim in politics in every country where they live. Making positive change. Akuperma is, however, an armchair critic who does nothing.January 7, 2018 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #1443974yytzParticipant
Caroline Glick wrote a book arguing for something similar to Joseph’s idea, except that Gaza would become part of Egypt. She says Yehudah/Shomron Arabs would have the choice to become citizens, and many would choose to, but not all, and with increased aliyah there will still be a substantial Jewish majority in the entire state. That’s her idea.
There are other options than the ones that have been mentioned.
For example, there is an option that you could call the Puerto Rico or Greenland solution. All of Israel would become one state under Israeli law. However, those living in Palestinian villages would be able to vote in local but not national elections. It is basically the same for Puerto Ricans and Indians living on Indian reservations in the US, and no one ever complains about that. Some would call this “apartheid,” but really, many countries have territories in which people can vote in local but not national elections.
Even better would be the Jordanian solution, in which Jordan (which is already 80% Palestinian) declares all Palestinians to be Jordanian citizens, who can vote there even if they don’t move there, and who can move there if they want. In practice, many Palestinians will stay in Israel to work, but they would be citizens of another country, so they couldn’t vote in national elections. This would deal nicely with the demographic problem while also ensuring they have the rights of full citizenship (for one country).
The main thing Palestinians complain about (aside from the existence of Israel at all) is restrictions on moving around, checkpoints, etc. But those things would all go away if terrorism stopped–their only purpose is to prevent terrorism. Once incitement to terrorism is actually illegal and enforced, and Palestinians give up their anti-Semitic and pro-terrorist ideologies, then Palestinians who remain can be just like Israeli Arabs, who can go anywhere they want. Privately, many Palestinians will admit they prefer being ruled by Israel directly rather than by the PA, since PA is corrupt and incompetent while Israel has a decently-run government.January 7, 2018 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #1444118Rabbi of CrawleyParticipant
Palestinians have lived under occupation for the last 50 years and are desperate for a peaceful solution, one that will allow them to live with their families without fear of attack or violence.January 7, 2018 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1444318Avi KParticipant
Crawley, they are the occupiers. Jordan is Palestine (and the Jordanians are occupying our Ever haYarden). They are the ones who send their children to commit suicide attacks. I suggest sending some to the UK in exchange for the Jews living there under Sharia patrols.
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