Sitting in driveway

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  • #1787997

    Trachtgeet
    Participant

    If someone is waiting in his car in your driveway while he dropped someone off at a simcha hall to say mazal tov and waiting for the person to come back.
    Is it appropriate for a jew to ask him to get off your private property or should a jew just let it go and let people wait in your driveway?

    #1788190

    klugeryid
    Participant

    if you dont need to use your driveway, and he is in his car so he is available to move, why on earth would you ask him to leave????

    #1788186

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    If the driver is in the car and you need the space, you can ask him/her to move. If not, why not let them stay there for a few minutes?

    #1788216

    Joseph
    Participant

    In your driveway itself or do you mean blocking your driveway while sitting in the car on the street in front of your property?

    #1788208

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Maybe the homeowner deals with this every simcha. Another guy and another guy wait in his driveway. Maybe he values his and his family’s privacy.

    #1788203

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Where is the simcha hall? Does this happen to you every time there is a simcha?

    #1788202

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Okay so on the other hand, who is this guy in my driveway? Better to ask him to move than call the police because a suspicious person is waiting in my driveway.

    How is the homeowner supposed to know that the other person isn’t up to something? Even someone who looks like a good Jew might be trouble. Maybe it’s a privacy issue too. Some people leave their curtains open. Or are simply walking inside in their pjs. It could be uncomfortable to have a stranger basically waiting around in your paved front yard.

    #1788200

    Goldilocks
    Participant

    I live in a very residential area, so I have no experience with this. But I personally would feel very uncomfortable and even a bit threatened if I noticed a strange car just “hanging out” in my driveway. Keep in mind that I would have no way of knowing whether or not the driver is Jewish or frum, or what her motives may be in spending time in my driveway.
    If, however, a frum-looking person knocked on my door and said, “I have an errand in this neighborhood; do you mind if I park in your driveway?”, I would gladly agree, unless I needed the use of the driveway at that time.

    #1788199

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    thats the craziest thing Ive heard. If hes staying in the car? why on earth would anyone ask him t o leave.

    that said, parking in the driveway is a bit unusual, blocking driveway is more typical (while staying in the car)

    #1788237

    Trachtgeet
    Participant

    1. It is not a one time occurrence.
    2. Driver is talking on the phone which when on car speakers can disturb people sleeping in house.
    3.when driver is backing out (street is busy) can cause a lot of honking which can disturb people sleeping.
    4. Streets are busy with cars and pedestrian traffic so it will take the driver sometime to back out. Which means I need to wait some time to get out of my driveway (if in hurry can be a big deal).
    A bit clearer?

    #1788253

    user176
    Participant

    Of course ask him to leave. There is no reason for anyone to park in someone else’s driveway. And if you want to be nice you can let him block it. Assuming people from the party will see what’s going on this can quickly become normalized and others will block the driveway and leave “for just one minute.” I live across the street from a yeshiva and this type of thing happens often. Wives pick up their husbands and block my driveway. But then occasionally someone will just block it for ten minutes. Allowing people to block let alone park in your driveway often, can eventually become their legal right in Halacha. If you are going to be nice you need to make it clear that this is a one time thing.

    #1788255

    Meno
    Participant

    Put up a sign

    #1788269

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If he wants to park on your driveway, go to the garage, pull out the lawnmower or snow-blower (depending on the season) and ask him to perform some useful work in exchange. I agree with several of the other posters that I would be uncomfortable having a stranger, even if he is wearing a Shtreimel and with a bunch of seforim on the front seat) sitting outside my house for several hours.

    #1788270

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Tracht besser
    So he will double park in front of your house while waiting.
    Now he is on a public street
    You will
    Still hear his loud cellphone conversations
    He will cause more honking because now everyone slows down as they squeeze past him causing the ones all the way back to really honk
    You will have a hard time getting out because his car will not allow you to manoeuvre and now he doesn’t have to move cause he is not on your property
    So you gain nothing but you inconvenience many.
    A bit clearer now??

    #1788316

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Just as meno said

    Say “private property, will be prosecuted”

    #1788335

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    1. It is not a one time occurrence.
    Amazing! You get so many easy mitzvos!

    2. Driver is talking on the phone which when on car speakers can disturb people sleeping in house.
    Thats unacceptable. tell him to hang up or leave.
    Also you need better insulation it isnt normal to hear conversations in a driveway in your home, you probably will save on heating bils to.
    But again that in no way absolves him from the responsibility to keep it down

    3.when driver is backing out (street is busy) can cause a lot of honking which can disturb people sleeping.
    That sounds like a reach of an excuse to aoid an easy mitzvah. Its the yetzer harah talking, it doesnt seem real.

    4. Streets are busy with cars and pedestrian traffic so it will take the driver sometime to back out. Which means I need to wait some time to get out of my driveway (if in hurry can be a big deal).

    how long? 10 seconds? 30 tops?

    A bit clearer? Totally!
    There is no good reason to stop him.

    Though I still dont understand why he doesnt do the more typical blocking of driveway (while staying in car)

    #1788346

    Trachtgeet
    Participant

    Kluger(?) Yid(?)
    Thank you so much it’s much clearer now!
    Please post your address so we can all come and wait in your driveway. We want you to be able to ‘manoeuvre’ very easily.

    #1788376

    heshyEmes
    Participant

    1. Depends on what is meant by waiting in your driveway. Did he block the driveway; or did this whacko actually pull into your driveway? If he is just blocking your driveway, then even though technically he is breaking the law (under NY’s Vehicle & Traffic Law, a driveway is a “No Standing” area, and can be ticketed even if the driver is inside), the homeowner would be oiver a maaseh S’doim for objecting. It’s perfectly legal to park in front of your house and for the driver to stay there for an hour or more. If he pulls into your driveway, he has mental issues. And if this happens to u on a regular basis, you should get a gate.

    #1788448

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    We have gates on our driveways. No stranger can pull in and park/stand there.

    #1788456

    Meno
    Participant

    CTLAWYER,

    I would assume your house is also more than 4.5 feet from the nearest wedding hall, so it’s unlikely you would have this problem anyway.

    #1788461

    borsar
    Participant

    Ummmm if someone parked in my driveway I would make them get out in a second. They’re not the ones paying for it and the same goes with blocking driveways. Chutzpah to block people’s driveways. Park and walk to their friends house so u have to honk for an hour and a half til they come out and u can get into your own driveway… chutzpah!

    #1788462

    Joseph
    Participant

    “And if you want to be nice you can let him block it.”

    Blocking a driveway (meaning physically the vehicle is on the public road/public property) while sitting in the driver’s seat and ready to move it (if the owner needs to pull in or out) is completely legal to do even without the owner’s permission or desire.

    #1788645

    hershh
    Participant

    The whole thing is really a non issue. 95% driveways in BP & Flatbush are ilillegal , have no cutout permits don’t pay annual fees It’s really unfair to all of BP residents, with many families H having multiple cars with someone owning the spaces in front of his house just because he put up a sign. And if someone ‘dares’ to take’his’ space woe to him. How selfish.

    #1788643

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @meno
    Our CT home is more than 45 Miles from a wedding hall. However, we own a couple of houses in Brooklyn that had been in the family. Too many neighbors thought they could take advantage of our mostly not being in residence to park in our driveway. One of the family would arrive in Brooklyn for a Shabbos or simcha and find our driveway occupied. So, the gates went up, along with warning signs not to block the driveway by parking in front of the curb cut on the street.
    I am in Brooklyn now, having driven in last night so I could make the cemetery rounds this morning. Glad to be able to have just hit the remote and open the gates, as there was no parking on the block. As long as I am paying the taxes and maintaining the property its use is restricted to my family and invited guests. That stranger lingering in the driveway is just a inconsiderate trespasser.

    BTW>>>>in an emergency every second counts, imagine getting into your car in the garage to rush a family member to the ER and find someone parked in your driveway for their convenience…sheer chutzpah.

    #1788695

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Ct lawyer
    True but we are discussing someone parking there while sitting in the car.
    Additionally, in the congested areas we are talking about, any sane person (except Mr health from the cr) would be calling hatzolah, as besides for all the other reasons to call them, your private car needs to stop for traffic lights, does not have sirens to move congestion out of the way for you… So if every second counts, you don’t take your car. So that’s a real weak reason. Besides, did you ever think that maybe the merit of allowing someone to wait in your driveway may be enough to save you from having to go to the emergency room in the first place??

    #1788696

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Mr trackt nor far zeech,
    It’s totally unnecessary.
    I live in a very congested area of Brooklyn
    People block my driveway all the time. I don’t explode on them. I have even told many on them, it’s OK you can stay, when they start to move because they see me getting out of my house.
    It won’t kill you to be nice to others when it’s no skin off your back.

    #1788731

    borsar
    Participant

    Still disagree. It is MY driveway that I pay for (legal). Why should someone use my driveway or block it because he feels like it. I’m not being mean but what makes them more imp than let’s say me, who owns it?!

    #1788768

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Borsar
    Nobody said they are more important than you. Relax. I won’t go so far as to call it מידת סדום because it’s not totally זה לא חסר but your attitude stinks.
    גומלי חסדים .ever hear of that phrase?
    What do you think it means?
    To help someone when it’s is zero effort on your part? Let’s remember, this was a very specific question.
    The person is in the car ready to move out on a moments notice.
    The only reason I can really think of to not let , is exactly what you wrote.
    “it’s mine!!! Get lost ”
    That’s a stinking attitude.
    So what! So you paid for it.
    Who gave you the money to pay for it?
    Hkb”h . That’s who gave you the money. You really can’t stand the thought of someone else also using your money, again I am only only talking about where it costs you nothing more than asking him to move.
    Something you would have to do if he was on the street blocking your driveway as well.
    Relax!!!

    #1788769

    klugeryid
    Participant

    You know, after I sent that last post, I thought over this issue and I almost cried.
    Here we are a week before Rosh haShana, we are all looking for merits to add to our account.
    Think about it. A yid walks out of his house to walk to Mariv, and there is someone sitting in his car in this persons driveway.
    You now have two choices,
    1) please leave my property now.
    2) ah! Look at that! I just got an easy mitzvah !
    I don’t need my driveway now anyway. And here someone is getting a benefit from it. Another merit to take with me into Rosh hashana!
    And.we know hashem counts our good thoughts as actions.
    So by even thinking that this is what I would do (obviously if you mean it) you can get who knows what kind of boost going into Rosh hashana
    And instead we hear people standing on ceremony. It’s mine! Get off!
    What a tremendous loss of opportunity!!!

    #1788770

    mentsch1
    Participant

    “ Why should someone use my driveway or block it because he feels like it?”
    זה נהנה וזה לא חסר

    #1788787

    borsar
    Participant

    Klugeryid- sorry I guess I should’ve taken a breathe when I said that but to me and my family it is quite frustrating when all the beach traffic and all the traffic from the next door neighbor who has a store in her house… coming home from work and not being able to just pull rt in… when it’s the same ppl over and over again and you even recognize the cars already, after asking very nicely the first 10x not to do it… I understand you’re saying I should do a chessed and let ppl block but what happens if I need to get out and they’re not there? They only ran to the neighbor for a “second” or they ran to another neighbor and have no way of getting in touch w them… I guess this is a pet peeve of mine maybe I should find a better pet peeve but for now this’ll have to do:)
    In all seriousness, there is a hydrant on the block. Why not block that, which is just as illegal as blocking a driveway? Cuz they have to walk the extra foot?

    #1788788

    borsar
    Participant

    Also klugeryid, I forgot.
    It is an effort on our part. Finding them and for them to finally get their act together and are ready to leave so we can use our driveway, or leave our driveway. Trust me, I know what it means to do chessed and (I know this might be a shock to you) but I love doing chessed too but why can’t Mr Joe Shmoe do a chessed too and let me use my driveway when I want.
    During the day when I’m not home, sure use my driveway but I don’t want to come chasing when I come home… my personal opinion here. I would sure hope that the things you said previously weren’t meant to be nasty and obnoxious cuz like u said, r”h is rt around the corner and it’s a stupid thing to have on your head…

    #1788789

    nebuch
    Participant

    Why does he have to be Jewish to let him use your driveway? Is it assur to be nice to our gentile neighbors ??
    BTW most of the people’s attitude regarding driveways in Brooklyn stink. Calm down , help a guy out a second .

    #1788813

    Trachtgeet
    Participant

    Kluger hid
    So you hold there’s no concept of private property?

    #1788814

    Goldilocks
    Participant

    Klugeryid, although you clearly mean well, you seem to be a bit out of touch with today’s world. (Lucky you!)
    Unfortunately we live in a pretty scary world, and someone trespassing onto private property – yes, even a driveway – in ar8where this is not commonly done, can be suspected of having harmful intentions toward the homeowner.
    In areas where this is usual behavior, User176 raised a valid point, that if you get a reputation as someone whose driveway is “available”, people will sometimes use it as a parking lot, leaving you without use of your own driveway.

    #1788828

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Goldilocks
    (remember the story? Great name you got going there. Little girl sleeping in a strangers bed after eating their food and breaking their furniture commenting on strangers idling in driveways)
    No I’m not Out of touch (though I wish I was)
    If your comment is true, then it’s not germane to this topic.

    #1788824

    klugeryid
    Participant

    People.
    Please!! Read and understand before you comment

    The o p
    and I made sure to stress this multiple times in my posts was WHERE THE PERSON IS SITTING IN THE CAR!!!!
    ( AND FROM THE O P, IT’S PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT THE PERSON IS NOT A MENACE)
    So half the posts responding have zero to do with either the op or my Response.

    Borsar
    What exactly was wrong with my response
    I didn’t say you are a bad person.
    I said the attitude (that you expressed openly in public here) stinks.
    No it wasn’t mean to be obnoxious or nasty, it was a statement of objective fact.
    That being said it seems I must have hurt you so I ask mechilah.
    That also being said, turns out you are commenting on a different issue.
    One on which I would never say most of what I wrote here.
    For a person to leave their car unattended in a random persons driveway, even with a phone number to reach them is a gross breach of derech eretz probably is gezel and I would never condone such an act, let alone comment negatively on others who don’t allow it.
    What’s the difference?
    Simple. Anyone who lives in Brooklyn has to deal with traffic anyway. You can never know how long it will take to pull out of your driveway when it’s clear.
    I live on an avenue
    Sometimes I pull right out
    Sometimes it can take two to three lights until I can get out.
    To make an issue when the guy is there and ready to move is only selfishness
    He could have blocked your driveway while on the street would have caused you the same inconvenience .
    But your situation (borsar) is totally different. To block someone else’s property and leave, without permission, it better be a real emergency

    #1788825

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Trach nisht
    Do I hold there is no such thing as private property?
    No I don’t hold that way.
    The gemarah says there are times when you have no right to claim it’s mine get lost.
    It’s called כופים אותו על מידת סדום
    You don’t like it, take it up with the gemarah
    I was clear I don’t think this case is exactly that
    But conceptually such an idea is well grounded in Jewish הלכה

    #1788862

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @klugeryid
    any sane person……
    I resent your implication that I am insane.
    You know I live full time in small town CT.
    We are a town of volunteers. I and my adult children have all been EMT certified and have volunteered in our town’s EMS. The males all belong to the volunteer fire companies. As such our vehicles do have the flashing blue lights and available sirens.
    I have made many a hospital run over the years transporting neighbors and family. I would decide whether to call a private service as you suggest, 911 or self transport based on the situation.

    BTW, if I was busy attending to a stricken person while waiting for EMT or ambulance the last thing i want to deal with is an inconsiderate trespasser parked in my driveway for his convenience.

    #1788865

    Joseph
    Participant

    Again, if the driver is sitting in his car while blocking the driveway while parked in front of it on the public street, he is fully within his legal rights to do so and does not need anyone’s permission. He has to be ready to move when asked. He’s on public property, not private property.

    The same is true about a driver legally being permitted to block a fire hydrant if he’s in the driver’s seat ready to move it.

    #1788879

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Goldilocks

    “can be suspected of having harmful intentions toward the homeowner.”

    Is that really a common practice?

    People drop off others at a simcha hall to say mazel tov, and while waiting for them to come out they pull into local driveways planning harmful things towards the homeowners?

    #1788880

    cherrybim
    Participant

    When allowing the public to use your property, you give up your rights on that property as well.
    If you want to do a chesed for a fellow Jew, give them a gift of flowers or candy; not your property. And klugeryid, what is your address so that I can take advantage of your wonderful generosity and give you another opportunity for chesed.

    #1788974

    Goldilocks
    Participant

    Ubiquitin,
    Yes, sometimes (unfortunately).
    How is the homeowner supposed to know that the driver is there for a Simcha?
    A few years ago, there was a scary story in Monsey where a non-Jewish man trespassed into someone’s private back yard, found an elderly woman sitting alone there, and physically attacked her.
    A stranger (who may or may not be Jewish; I have no way of knowing) lurking on my property would make me feel uneasy.
    And if the driver’s intentions are entirely peaceful, is there a reason why she can’t simply knock on my door and ask permission?
    I would gladly grant permission if she explained her reasons for wanting to be there, and looked like a decent person.

    #1788989

    klugeryid
    Participant

    ct lawer
    “Additionally, in the congested areas we are talking about, any sane person (except Mr health from the cr) would be calling hatzolah, ”
    i think that would exclude small tow ct
    i hope you read your contracts a bit more carefully

    #1788998

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    goldilocks

    “How is the homeowner supposed to know that the driver is there for a Simcha?”
    READ THE OP!!!

    Why are people commenting with all sorts of irrelevant nonsense like emergencies? Or what goes on in small towns in Connecticut ? Or people leaving their cars.?

    #1789002

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Unless you are absolutely certain about the identity of the driver, you would be reckless to allow him/her to sit there for hours on your driveway. With recent stories about home robberies and carjackings of yidden by individuals dressed in yeshivish lvush etc. why even take a slight chance and risk your safety and that of your family?? If the unknown driver doesn’t move immediately, call the police.
    P.S. I will be glad to provide a heter for any concerns about mesirah

    #1789040

    klugeryid
    Participant

    G H
    Enlighten me please
    How many hours are there in a few min ?

    #1789050

    Goldilocks
    Participant

    Ubiquitin:
    I did read the original post. It spoke about a driver who is there for a Simcha. I get that.
    I don’t see how the driver’s intentions would be clear to the homeowner. To the driver, yes, but not to the homeowner.
    The driver can make her intentions clear by knocking on the door and asking permission.
    If the Simcha – going driver keeps her intentions private, the homeowner can only watch and wonder.

    #1789070

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    KY: Approximately 6.37 hours per minute during shabbosim when we don’t say mashiv ha’ruach. Otherwise, deduct one hour depending on your time zone. ‘

    #1789096

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @klugeryid
    I wasn’t talking about small town CT. I said I had driven in Saturday night so as to visit the family cemeteries on Sunday. I was in my CT registered car with the flashing blue lights and siren and plates that say Vol Fire and EMT.
    I don’t have a NY registered car.
    If I was ticketed in an emergency run to the ER. I’d deal with the ticket in court. I am admitted to practice in NY.
    I read the post very carefully, as I read contracts. So much for all your words about R”H being around the corner, you were quick to sling insults and barbs.

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