Sitting in driveway

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  • #1789109

    klugeryid
    Participant

    CT lawyer
    Thanks for the effusive verbiage
    Not sure what it has to do with anything.
    Someone, I don’t remember who, commented that if the homeowner needs to pull out of his driveway to bring a family member to a hospital, those few seconds make a huge difference.
    I responded that In the congested area under discussion here (Brooklyn NY) any sane person would call הצלה in such a situation as the trip to the hospital is vastly longer in a private car due to its inability to skirt traffic laws or Push traffic along. Somehow you took this as a personal slight to your honor
    And you Responded with this verbiage
    (breaks inserted by me for clarity)
    You know I live

    full time in

    small town CT.

    We are a town of volunteers. I and my adult children have all been EMT certified and have volunteered in our town’s EMS. The males all belong to the volunteer fire companies. As such our vehicles do have the flashing blue lights and available sirens.
    I have made many a hospital run over the years transporting neighbors and family. I would decide whether to call a private service as you suggest, 911 or self transport based on the situation.

    To which I responded that the op is talking about congested areas and not small town CT…

    Now you pop up with more verbiage about lights and tickets and traffic court.
    I don’t know where you are headed with all that
    But I know this discussion doesn’t concern your Brooklyn residence because those houses of yours are gated. (see above)
    So you took umbrage where none was meant and now got upset at me because I called you out on it?
    Sorry
    I didn’t realize you were so thin skinned.
    However again you are totally correct that I should not be hurting people’s feelings ever, certainly not a week to r “h
    So I find myself apologising again.

    Ubiq help me out here
    We just went back and forth pretty heavy for over 100 posts without the need to apologize
    What am I doing wrong??

    #1789184

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Goldilocks
    “I don’t see how the driver’s intentions would be clear to the homeowner”

    SO ask the OP, hey remeber when you said “If someone is waiting in his car in your driveway while he dropped someone off at a simcha hall to say mazal tov and waiting for the person to come back.” how did you know thats what he was doing?”

    KY
    Its not you. CT lawyer’s post had absolulty nothing to do with the thread He realizes that now so is feigning umbrage so that he doesnt have to admit, that obviously parking long term in a driveway has absolutely nothing to do wit waiting in the car. similarly the emergency comment was equally foolish.

    ITs similar to people who call out misspellings.” Ha you wrote ‘apologising’ you’re obviously wrong” no logical person thinkls that makes sense, is an out, to end discussion.

    I like the arguing, the arguing is an end in itself so I have no reason to do that

    #1789155

    just me
    Participant

    KlugerYid, if you say that in the Gemara it says there is no private property, can I move into your house rent free? It isn’t really yours anyway…

    #1789154

    just me
    Participant

    I don’t know what part of Flatbush or BP you are looking at, but where ever I lived in Flatbush, the driveways were legal.

    #1789246

    klugeryid
    Participant

    just me
    remind me where i said that

    #1789247

    mentsch1
    Participant

    I have pointed this out in the past (on a thread involving picking up hitch hikers)
    The idea of using a suspected danger to avoid doing a mitzvah is a snare of the yetzer hora
    The misalis yesharim addresses it in chapter 9 (i think)
    I believe that this thread with all its cheshbonos of reasons why not to do it (Who knows the driver, it might be dangerous, I might need to run to the hospital) fits that chapter to a T.
    Bottom line
    Acc to M’Y. A danger is defined by a lion on the road in front of you, an actual present danger. Otherwise if
    You have a chance to do a mitzvah with a supposed fear competing with the mitzvah you go with the mitzvah

    #1789687

    klugeryid
    Participant

    the chafetz chaim in ahavas chesed gives a good guideline
    if youd make a financial investment with that given level of risk, you need to accept that level of risk for chesed too
    presumably other mitzvos should be the same

    #1790280

    DovidBT
    Participant

    @ctlawyer

    I resent your implication that I am insane.

    Oh, come on. We all know you’re insane. But that’s ok. Most of the posters here are insane.

    #1790338

    Mistykins
    Participant

    I own a townhouse with a double-wide driveway. The 2 spots in front of my garage are mine. You’d be surprised how many people don’t get it. When the neighbors friends are waiting for him to come out, I don’t bother unless I happen to be leaving anyway. But I have also told a delivery truck that they either need to move their vehicle in the next 5 minutes, or pay the $60 fee for me missing my appointment. My other neighbor has had it worse, she has woken up half the neighborhood banging on the door of her shared driveway because they blocked her in overnight. Several times.

    Are these different people every time, or one guy dropping off his wife weekly? I would walk out and ask if he’s lost or needing assistance, if he asks at that point you can reply that he can stay for now but in the future this is a private driveway.

    #1790447

    yid38
    Participant

    Amazing! So many opinions only 1 answer. “THE LAW OF THE LAND IS THE LAW”, Torah law.

    #1790542

    Joseph
    Participant

    Dina D’malchusa applies regarding laws affecting the relationship between a Yid and the government; it explicitly does not govern the relationship between two Yidden. The latter is exclusively governed by Choshen Mishpat.

    #1790614

    mentsch1
    Participant

    Joseph
    I am always disappointing when people quote Dina Demalchusa to avoid doing mitzvos
    I always wonder what would happen if they outlawed shcita in this country
    Would all these who are so makpid on dina dimalchusa suddenly become vegetarians ?
    Or would they find a way to give themselves a “heter” to get around that law

    #1791206

    Abba_S
    Participant

    The choice is yours allow people to park in your driveway, it is a chesed. But if it’s becoming a problem you can buy a driveway blocker which is basically a pole that locks into to the driveway and prevents unauthorized use. As far as someone blocking the driveway on the street besides calling a tow truck and having it removed.

    #1791214

    Joseph
    Participant

    Abba: No tow truck will tow a car blocking a driveway unless it was first ticketed. And reporting it to the government to issue it a ticket cannot be done due to mesira.

    #1791220

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Abba: No tow truck will tow a car blocking a driveway unless it was first ticketed. And reporting it to the government to issue it a ticket cannot be done due to mesira.

    So if someone blocks my driveway, I need for wait for bais din’s tow truck?

    #1791225

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Joseph, too many frum yidden have used mesirah as a shield to commit all kinds of bad acts. You block my driveway, I will be more than happy to call the cops.

    #1791257

    Joseph
    Participant

    DY: Can you cite any bona fide halachic basis that mesira can be engaged in this case?

    #1791282

    Abba_S
    Participant

    I am not a lawyer nor an expert in Jewish Law but I have a friend who managers a warehouse who needs to have his trucks loaded and on the road before 6 AM. He is the one who told me. The tow operator takes the car to his lot and notifies the owner who then must pay towing and storage and pick up the car. A lien is put on the car for these charges and they can auction the car to pay these fees.
    Do you think a business can afford thousand of dollars in lost sales while they wait around for the police to write out a summons which doesn’t clear the driveway. Sometimes you have to take the law into your own hands. They also puts up signs warning people not to block the driveway but they still occasionally block the driveway.

    #1791395

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Joseph, שו”ע חו”מ תי”ב ב.

    Yes, I have gotten a psak that it could apply here, but specifically in a case where there’s no other way to get the car out of the way, and it’s actually blocking your access to your driveway, not merely making it more difficult to get in or out.. If the response time of the police and tow truck company is too slow to be of any help in getting the car away faster (because the owner will most likely move his car before it’s towed away), and you’re calling the police just because you’re angry and/or want to teach the guy a lesson, it would indeed be assur.

    Practically speaking, that means unless you live in area where the response time is extremely quick, the only time it would be muttar would be if it’s a long term situation, such as if the guy parked blocking the driveway and went away for the weekend.

    #1791397

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    As far as the mesira aspect, it’s clear in the רמ”א in שפ”ח י”ב that it wouldn’t be an issue here (again, specifically where he’s blocking access and caling the police and the tow truck will get his car out ire quickly).

    The value of his car is surely more than the ticket and towing fees, so if you’re allowed al pi halacha to smash his car if there’s no other way, you’re certainly allowed to cause him a smaller loss.

    #1791399

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Joseph, too many frum yidden have used mesirah as a shield to commit all kinds of bad acts. You block my driveway, I will be more than happy to call the cops.

    If it’s just because you’re angry and/or want to teach a lesson, it’s assur. It’s only permitted if the only way to get the car out of the driveway.

    #1791467

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    More importantly, mesirah has been used to protect molesters and stop people from reporting them to the police.
    It’s been a big issue in Melbourne since 2015 where molesters have gone unpunished and the victims who went public were punished by the community as mosers.

    #1791504

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So therefore you’re allowed to have someone’s car ticketed??!!

    #1791519

    hershh
    Participant

    I have tried several times to make it clear. Most driveways in BP are illegal. In order to be legal you must have a permit and ppay for it. 95% don’t have a permit. The City of NY ignores this for some reason. If you ever get ticketed for blocking a driveway just challenge the owner to produce the permit. Also sue him for your time.

    #1791636

    Abba_S
    Participant

    hershh: Even if the driveway is illegal the driver must prove that the driveway is illegal. The officer who issued the ticket is not present nor is the property owner, it’s only you and the judge. How are you going to prove the driveway is illegal? Also you are informing on your fellow Jew which is prohibited under Jewish Law

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