Sleeping in the sukkah

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  • #2014254
    aposhiteyid
    Participant

    unfortunately u guys have not learnt the sichah nor understand it, (obviously according to what you say) and are therefore making machlokus

    #2014267

    melbournian i think that chabad niks do what ther Local orthodox rabbi tells them to do and litvishes do what there local orthodox rabbi tells them to do.

    #2014293
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Melbourne; I’ve seen the piece in shaarei halacha uminhag, i quoted it here…we get it, we simply dispute it.

    #2014324
    aposhiteyid
    Participant

    avirah darah:
    “we get it,we simply dispute it”
    thats fine as long as you dont accuse it of being kefirah

    #2014441

    agreed

    #2015113

    back to the sukkah, I think there are legitimate reasons to consider this whole dor istanis, given our lifestyle. We also have different attitudes towards dwellings – we do not have dirt floors, people travelling for work sleep in separate rooms instead of the inn bar, etc. Add to that Ashkenazi habit of not sleeping in the sukkah for hundreds of years due to weather and even if NY is slightly warmer than Lyadi, the danger outside (where the honest people are behind bars) compensates. We all know that it is easier to accept a new explanation to a minhag than to change the minhag! You would not be wearing Polish clothes otherwise. So, there is some support to Lubavicher sensitivity to people’s sensitivities.

    Even if you look at classical examples of instanis from a quick Google. I am 4 out of 6, and I know those who are 6 out of 6 🙂 What are you?

    1. walking in non-leather shoes on 9AV [Rabbi Shlomo Oiyrbach allows because nowadays we all “istanis” (הליכות שלמה ה, טז-יז).]
    2. someone who is disgusted by drinking from a cup where someone else drank (Tamid 27b)
    3. someone too delicate to work (Sotah 11a)
    4. someone too delicate to bathe in cold water (Yoma 31b and Yoma 34b)
    5. an overly sensitive person whose days are made worse from constantly encountering unpleasant situations (Sanhedrin 100b and Bava Batra 145b)
    6. requiring a daily bath (Berachot 16b)

    #2015231
    aposhiteyid
    Participant

    i agree aaq good point

    #2015254

    that said, people need to understand each other better.
    Once a visiting non-Chabad chusid came to sleep in a sukkah at a college Chabad House. Chabad Rov came in and said, semi-humorously, “no sleeping in my sukkah”. The guy did not say a word, got up and left before anyone realized what is happening. Closest other sukkah was 30 minutes away. The Rov did not feel well. The chusid came back for the morning minyan as if nothing happened.

    #2015285
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Aaq, bear in mind we’re dealing with a deoraysoh…also we’re not talking about practices of chutz laaretz, where the minhag of being maikil is established. We’re talking about a pirtzas geder in eretz yisroel based on “mitztayer that you’re not mitztayer” garbled reasoning. To say that everyone nowadays is an istinis regarding aveilus, is not so shver because we’re supposed to be naikil in aveilus and it’s likewise a derabonon… it’s also a question of veing very uncomfortable.

    Here as we can see from the millions of jews who sleep in a sukkah in eretz yisroel, they are not istinis in this regard..

    If one regards himself as an istinis, as the aruch hashulchan says he must be that way in every respect, not just when it’s convenient. Bochurim who go a whole week without showering(this happens in all communities which have bochurim, chabad included…not all, but I’d say 15% in Litvishe and Chasidishe yeshivos) are not istinisim, but they also don’t sleep in a sukkah in neo-chabad…. that’s a clear contradiction

    #2015306

    the story I brought above brings a nafka mina for this minhag: when someone else sleeps in a Chabad Sukkah. Are you istanis and respect the sleeping person for his strength, or are you upset that the other person does not feel the kedusha and thus you can’t fall asleep in your house while the guest is snorring outside oblivious to mittele rebbe ushpeznut.

    #2015305

    Avira > Bochurim who go a whole week without showering

    Can’t skip a good joke  let me know when you have one…edited

    Sociologically, I think this is an endearing example of how we get attached to minhagim, even when cold-headed halachik analysis differ (some might call this :minhag shtus”). If Chabad were to have started in Tzfat, this might not have happened. But it became a point of contention (whether back in Belorussia or in NYC) and so it became an important height to defend. Can someone check with Chabad of Hawaii if they also think that it is too cold outside? So, if our choice is to characterize them as rebels or istani, maybe the latter is preferable?

    In all such cases, I would be happy if people at least acknowledge that they are doing something unusual and respect the rest of klal Isroel. A similar (you may disagree) case is people who not just keep cholov isroel, but consider the plates of others “treif” and similar cases.

    #2017180

    anyone know why in the orginal posts there are a lot of question marks or why this is on the top of cofferoom? @mod-29?

    #2017218
    aposhiteyid
    Participant

    farbcoffe:
    “why this is on the top of cofferoom?”
    because at first it wasnt showing up in the topics so they pinned it so it stays

    #2019187
    Ash
    Participant

    there are question marks because there were originally Hebrew words. Threads from a few years back containing Hebrew got garbled during their forum upgrade a few years ago (probably due to not taking into account encoding changes e.g. from utf16 to utf8). It’s a shame they haven’t managed to fix this.

    #2021346
    philosopher
    Participant

    So I listened to Cunin’s speech and it really sounds similar to Christianity, that speech should’ve been condemned. He clearly said that the Rebbe runs the world. I don’t care who wrote what sichah and what it says there if it says that a Rebbe runs the world then it is simply wrong. Hashem runs the world, period.

    #2021561
    aposhiteyid
    Participant

    Tzadik Gozer Vehashem Mekayem

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