Sleeping in the sukkah

melbournian i think that chabad niks do what ther Local orthodox rabbi tells them to do and litvishes do what there local orthodox rabbi tells them to do.

avirah darah:
“we get it,we simply dispute it”
thats fine as long as you dont accuse it of being kefirah

back to the sukkah, I think there are legitimate reasons to consider this whole dor istanis, given our lifestyle. We also have different attitudes towards dwellings – we do not have dirt floors, people travelling for work sleep in separate rooms instead of the inn bar, etc. Add to that Ashkenazi habit of not sleeping in the sukkah for hundreds of years due to weather and even if NY is slightly warmer than Lyadi, the danger outside (where the honest people are behind bars) compensates. We all know that it is easier to accept a new explanation to a minhag than to change the minhag! You would not be wearing Polish clothes otherwise. So, there is some support to Lubavicher sensitivity to people’s sensitivities.

Even if you look at classical examples of instanis from a quick Google. I am 4 out of 6, and I know those who are 6 out of 6 🙂 What are you?

1. walking in non-leather shoes on 9AV [Rabbi Shlomo Oiyrbach allows because nowadays we all “istanis” (הליכות שלמה ה, טז-יז).]
2. someone who is disgusted by drinking from a cup where someone else drank (Tamid 27b)
3. someone too delicate to work (Sotah 11a)
4. someone too delicate to bathe in cold water (Yoma 31b and Yoma 34b)
5. an overly sensitive person whose days are made worse from constantly encountering unpleasant situations (Sanhedrin 100b and Bava Batra 145b)
6. requiring a daily bath (Berachot 16b)

that said, people need to understand each other better.
Once a visiting non-Chabad chusid came to sleep in a sukkah at a college Chabad House. Chabad Rov came in and said, semi-humorously, “no sleeping in my sukkah”. The guy did not say a word, got up and left before anyone realized what is happening. Closest other sukkah was 30 minutes away. The Rov did not feel well. The chusid came back for the morning minyan as if nothing happened.

the story I brought above brings a nafka mina for this minhag: when someone else sleeps in a Chabad Sukkah. Are you istanis and respect the sleeping person for his strength, or are you upset that the other person does not feel the kedusha and thus you can’t fall asleep in your house while the guest is snorring outside oblivious to mittele rebbe ushpeznut.

anyone know why in the orginal posts there are a lot of question marks or why this is on the top of cofferoom? @mod-29?

there are question marks because there were originally Hebrew words. Threads from a few years back containing Hebrew got garbled during their forum upgrade a few years ago (probably due to not taking into account encoding changes e.g. from utf16 to utf8). It’s a shame they haven’t managed to fix this.

Tzadik Gozer Vehashem Mekayem

Philosepher,
Ill try explain myself but after this im not going to get into this argument any further.
If a tzadik is gozer and the Hashem is mekayem that same thing, would that not mean that the tzaddik is “controlling” that thing?
This is not neccesarily what Rabbi Cunin meant, just a suggestion.

If a random person in the street said that the world will know that rav moshe feinstein runs the world, you would disregard him as a lunatic.

Why is it different when a chabad rabbi claims this for his rebbe? Why do we run to defend it? Just because chabad does chessed and kiruv doesn’t mean they’re immune to criticism.

People will say “let’s see what you do next time you’re in Oklahoma and the only place you have is chabad”.

The above applies; that does not make one immune from criticism. For the record, I also was told by my rav to daven beyechidus rather than in a chabad shul, in light of the possibility of rebbe worship therein. I also wouldn’t eat meat from them.

Avirah: “If a random person in the street said that the world will know that rav moshe feinstein runs the world, you would disregard him as a lunatic.”
But what about when they are not such a random person.

If someone would say Moshe Rabbeinu runs the world I would consider him to be crazy. The Torah is clear on this and our real Rabbonim made clear: only Hashem runs the world!

Anyone who thinks a Rebbe runs the world is not being a God-fearing, frum Yid and their religion mimics Christianity. Christians believe in a god of three, the trinity, they together are considered one, this is avodei zara. Thinking that a Rebbe runs the world, that God does whatever the tzaddik decides should be done, is a religion of “twinity” or call it any other name, but it is avode zora 100%

God is One! Everything that happens is His will, if He wants to do what a tzaddik is goizer He will, if He doesn’t want to, He won’t! No tzaddik has the power to run the world, only God!

Of course, but what about eg the story of the besht that someone asked him to give them a brachah (i think for a child and there was some favour they did for him) and he gave a brachah. There waas then a bas kol that said that since u gave that brachah contrary to My wishes (kaveyochol) u will lose your olam haboh. The story dosnt end there but my point is that kaveyachol the Besht had a different will to Hashem.
Also with Eliyahu hanavie bringing famine to the kingdom of yisrael and then also wanting to give a women a brachah for a child and Hashem telling Eliyahu he can only have 1 key…

So not Chas Veshalom to say that the Rebbe runs the world and Hashem dosn’t, just… ( i think you get my point)

is chabad halachicly avoideh zorah? can anyone answer this question with a psak from a posek not from a mouth that spews spaghetti?

Oh, and aposhitayid, you can’t bring chabad sources to source themselves

Aposhitehyid; this is why i said “usually”, and that it’s a “sign,” nothing’s absolute.

syag, can you answer my questions. you could be right that im using insults and il try stop but i want to know what the answer to my question is.

Philiphosor Chas vesholom

Aposhitehyid; is there a context where it is appropriate for someone to say that god has a body cv”s, doesn’t know the past cv”s, or any other statement that contravenes the 13 ikkarim? There simply isn’t

I want to make things clear: The Rebbe was one of (if not the) the most biggest and chashuvah tzaddikim in his generation. You are just too IGNORANT and don’t know half a page of tanya so you listen to anything some greasy bachurim hock to you about in your coffee room in your yeshiva. If you would just become a bit more knowledgable, look a little more for the truth, you’ll find out how ignorant you have been.
The Rebbe on Sukkos cat-napped. Meaning, he didn’t GO to sleep. He may have ended up falling asleep for a short while, less than 20 minutes, which according to halachah is considered a nap. And have you every heard of Yaakov Avinu? He learned in Yeshivas Shem V’ever for 20 years, and he ‘didn’t sleep’. Say your same ta’ane to Yaakov Avinu, and say that Chazal lies Chas V’shalom! Yaakov Avinu didn’t go to sleep, but he slept small naps.

I suggest you learn more about the Rebbe and his tzidkus and gadlus from authentic sources and then talk. You know for a fact that you are just ignorant.

edited, although not quite as much as it should have been…

what do you mean when you say that’s what we are taught in every Chabad Yeshiva?

Number one, I have read all he posts on this thread.
Number two, I didn’t say anything about a chabad yeshiva.
Number three, I need to correct myself, it was 14 years, not 20.
Number Four, I realized how worthless this conversation is. We’re not getting anywhere with this. What problem do you have so much with lubavitch that you need to bash it so much? If your gonna start looking for questions ask satmar why they where dafka white socks, over their pants. ANd your not gonna make lubavitchers not sleep in the sukkah because your making such a big deal over it.
Why don’t you check your tefillin every year? Why dafka every seven years? I can ask that question, I can even make a thread about it, but why whould I? It just split’s klal yisrael because the different minhagim and opinions they follow. WHy are we focusing so much on parts we we disagree? Let’s start threads on what we do agree on. (We doesn’t mean litvish and chabad, it means yidden)

So Mr. Ober Baum, I am not sure who you are addressing since most of that was not about my comment but I will respond to point 4.
1) I find that lubavitch tends to call things bashing (okay farby, not you) whenever they don’t like something so I won’t elaborate on that. On the other hand you ask what problem? I think if you read the thread (or the 100 others) it should be fairly obvious what problem “we” have. It has been listed, stated, quoted, explained, elaborated upon, discussed etc. Not always nicely but sometimes very cut and clear. So you brush it away with no legitimate response and say ‘okay, so what’s the problem’?
If I went into a store and said I needed to return a an item because the electrical parts don’t work, the color is uneven, the size is not as stated and it sparks when I use it, can the employee say, “okay, but what’s the problem?”

2) And here is where you shot your argument in the foot – Feel free to start threads about all those things. We often argue halachos and minhagim, that does NOT split klal yisroel – it’s called a discussion. And guess what, if someone started a thread asking why satmar wear white socks, I would expect someone familiar with the minhag (?) would give an answer. And nobody will call it bashing, splitting or hating. If you’ve learned gemara you would know that that’s what yidden do.