Smoking and Driking in Yeshivas!

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  • #1900944
    BenK
    Participant

    I became more concerned about this as my son just went to a school dorm where he sees smoking and drinking. And Im talking of a Religous school. I heard before certain even religous school youths smoke and at some engagement parties cigarrettes are given out.
    This is a concern for General Society of course.
    As a member of a religous community its creeping into our community clearly directly concerns me.
    It is NO SECRET Smoking KILLS those that Smoke and May HARM INNOCENT Bystanders through second hand smoke.
    As such teachers, principals, clergy and RABBIS need Clearly FORBID smoking (and frankly Drunkard level drinking if applicable) in all schools And Yeshivas! It is Openly for bidden to Kill oneself And Others and not Stopping it is a chilul Hashem, desecration of G-ds name.
    I write this frankly as a concerned parent and community member. We should not Need to tell people even Vaping is not allowed indoors. It clearly is included in no smoking.

    #1900959
    BenK
    Participant

    This is a serious issue pikuach nefedh chilul hashem

    #1900960
    BenK
    Participant

    It is pikuach nefesh and chilul hashem

    #1900961
    huju
    Participant

    To the opening poster: Were you driking when you wrote the headline for this subject?

    #1900987
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    So take your son out of that school, don’t worry about others MYOB

    #1900998
    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    I agree. This is sarcastic: smoking doesn’t kill. We don’t need to stop. It’s freedom and independence to smoke and drink. Its my right. Its a leftist conspiracy to take over and control the country. Maybe a few people died, long ago, from smoking but the danger is over now. Get it?

    #1901067
    BenK
    Participant

    This is pikuch nefesh and chilul hashem

    #1901076
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ben,

    Just tell your son not to smoke near anyone.

    #1901096
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    People are still giving out cigarettes at Simcha? As far as I’m concerned, any bochur that can afford cigarettes ( heavily taxed in the NY metro area ) doesn’t need a tuition break.

    #1901146
    The little I know
    Participant

    Baltimore:

    I might suggest that Elul is an appropriate time to dispense with sarcasm. And in case you were serious, I must tell you that I don’t believe you are mistaken. I know for certain that you are completely wrong. And any effort to try and mislead with your inaccuracies is worthy of a few more Al Cheits.

    #1901149
    midwesterner
    Participant

    You would deny tuition discounts to someone who spends 10.00 to celebrate a simcha? Rachmana Litzlan from those who want to so micromanage the affairs of others.

    #1901157
    BenK
    Participant

    From the Surgeon Generals 2014 report on the Centers for Disease Control site

    Every adult who dies early because of smoking is replaced by two new young smokers. If smoking continues at current rates, 5.6 million—or 1 out of every 13—of today’s children willultimately die prematurely from a smoking-related illness

    #1901180
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @ Ben K, why don’t you mind your own business, if it annoys you take your son out of that yeshiva

    #1901181
    BenK
    Participant

    Dangerous habits like smoking and drunkard level drinking are no joke

    #1901185
    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    TLIK… it was sarcasm directed at the anti maskers who claim covid is over or not dangerous. My parents both died of smoking related cancers.

    #1901186
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    It is not a life or death matter. And definitely not a degradation toward God. What is the problem here?

    #1901204
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    What is the problem here?

    The problem is the narcissistic intellectual void occupying the Oval Office who has taken an already polarized American populace to new extremes and has used critical public health issues as a “metric” of personal freedom and liberty to energize his base. His mindless rants and irresponsible assertions regarding just about every aspect of the current pandemic is like Baltimore Mayven’s “denial” that smoking is like the Virus and has just “magically” gone away and is no longer a concern. Yes, there has been gross stupidity on BOTH sides with regard to Covid-related decisions (aka Cuomo sending infected patients back to the nursing homes) but the Trumpkopf’s actions are knowing and deliberate to further his personal ego and agenda.

    #1901207
    Abe B
    Participant

    Just saying, most people that die per year aren’t smart smokers…..

    #1901230
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Gadol,

    You messed up the cue! I did not say what is the problem everywhere. While you are still on the same topic, do you blame the President for the recent earthquakes?

    #1901228
    The little I know
    Participant

    GH:

    You are displaying either an obsession or a psychotic fixation. The issue is not Trump, except in your mind.

    #1901229
    1
    Participant

    Welcome to yeshiva in 2020

    #1901249
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Because 1920 was during prohibition. But cigarettes were a penny a piece.

    #1901260
    shabbosabba
    Participant

    We should make smoking illegal. The same way that it was illegal to walk outside your house without a mask. People die from second-hand smoke. Even though the smoker is just doing his own thing, he is harming others. Just like someone who walks outside without a mask. Especially for older people, with lungs that aren’t working as well, the smoke can be dangerous, or even deadly.

    #1901286
    OtherTzad
    Participant

    You dont think the hanhallah and rabbieim forbid smoking in every yeshiva? I dont know of any yeshiva where it’s not weekly reenforced.

    The buchrim want to fit in, so they follow their “cool” friends. Hanhallah does more than you can imagine to crack down.

    That being said, when I was in yeshiva, the guys who had good self esteem and didnt feel the need to “look cool” as well as those parents that instilled the negativity of smoking/drinking/drugs- where the ones who’s kids stayed away.

    Drill in the disgustingness of smoking and drinking from an early age. And keep emphasizing every time they see someone smoking how bad it is.
    My parents CONSTANTLY did that w me, and I’ve never smoked or drank alcohol (other than kiddush wine) in my life.

    I also never felt a need to feel cool with the cool buchrim because I always felt I was cooler than then by not smoking- and that stemmed from youth self esteem.

    It’s not the parents faults. It’s not hanhallahs faults. Everyone is genuinely trying their best. I’m just saying for those who think their child cant be convinced- you’re wrong. Every bachur could be convinced if some properly.

    #1901357
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “he issue is not Trump, except in your mind”

    And yes, I have a very active imagination. I imagine a President who would lead by words and actions. A president deliberately undermines the credibility of the nation’s public health leadership by questioning their motives, contradicting their advice and offering garbage science in lieu of expert advice from those who have the best available information. His actions in terms of mocking those who wear masks, refusing to wear one himself, flouting social distancing guidelines at his events and pushing reopening even where there are high rates of infection ALL have caused death and suffering. So yes, I do blame him for what he has some ability to control and fails to do so in the same way I blame political leaders, the media, and those in the entertainment sector who knew tobacco killed and continued downplaying the risk for over a decade.

    #1901362
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “the same way I blame political leaders, the media, and those in the entertainment sector who knew tobacco killed and continued downplaying the risk for over a decade.”

    Wow! What an exciting day that GH is willing to rant against something that wasn’t trumps fault. Or is that only because it doesn’t have direct biden ties. Oh well. It was an exciting moment.

    #1901363
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Midwesterner – I’m pretty sure that’s not what he said. And i agree. I wouldn’t give a penny of support to someone spending 10 bucks a day on cigarettes. And no, it wouldn’t be me who is depriving them of anything.

    #1901374
    The little I know
    Participant

    GH:

    Your second rant was no smarter than the first, and it contributes no compliment to you. I get your political leaning, and haven’t a care in the world who gets your vote. Your anti-Trump sentiments may have basis, or maybe not. Who cares. The discussion is about smoking and drinking in yeshiva, and no one checks their political feelings and aspirations before choosing to indulge in tobacco or alcohol. I would venture to bet that any survey of smokers or drinkers would reflect the balance between Trump and Biden that is characteristic for the geographic location or other demographics. You are entitled to your complaints about how Trump handled the pandemic, and i am entitled to agree or disagree. But you won’t miss a thread without engaging in your Trump bashing. Maybe it’s time to grow up. or get help for your obsession. By all means, be aware of those feelings on Election day. This thread is not the place.

    #1901396
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Syag,

    A yeshivah bochur spends less on cigarettes than on takeout. Working guys are more likely to get cigarettes over the counter.

    #1901400
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    So what?

    #1901399
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    An expensive scotch is a month supply of cigarettes.

    #1901410
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Little: As you said, everyone is entitle to their opinions. I do happen to believe that there has been a very broad and pervasive undermining of public health norms across the board with mixed messages on vaccinations, masks, social distancing etc. There is this phony and dangerous libertarian theme that ANY government public health guidance is politically driven by the deep state, designed to take away your liberty, etc. Obviously, increased drug and alcohol use and peer-driven smoking were critical problems before Trump and the Corona Virus came along but his actions and rhetoric, in my view, have made it considerably more difficult to effectively respond to these other public health crises.

    edited

    #1901412
    akuperma
    Participant

    When I was that age, I found it annoying (I never smoked, and almost never drink except on Shabbos).

    When I was a tatti, I found it outrageous that yeshivos put up with such things.

    Now that I’m a Zeidy, I realize that kids will be kids, and that’s been true since the beginning. And they tend to outgrow it, and at least I had less trouble than Adam he-Rishon, whose kids really got into mischief.

    #1901443
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Syag,

    Almost all those that spend ten dollars a day on cigarettes do not need our pennies. (Except for homeless vagrants.)

    #1901445
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Why is this on the mosdos? Working guys do not smoke or drink? Yeshiva guys do not smoke or drink at home? It is the responsibility of the individual.

    #1901455
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Again no shaichus

    #1901465
    Toi
    Participant

    @GH- Interesting to note, Trump never drinks or smokes due to the health impact. I think he doesn’t even touch coffee. You have a pathological problem. If Trump cured cancer, you would demand it back.

    #1901466
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Midwesterner , you conflated my statements.
    Statement #1: I haven’t seen cigarettes given put at simchas in over 50 years.
    Statement #2: cigarettes are very expensive in the NY metro area. Any bochur who smokes a pack or more a day is disqualified from tuition assistance. The money spent on cigarettes should go towards tuition.

    With regard to the yeshiva. Many make big issues regarding the color of shirts, manner of dress and hashkafa of their talmidim. Yet, when it comes to an unhealthy, disgusting and expensive cigarette habit , they are suddenly powerless?

    #1901517
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @BenK how about else coffee? how about lack of fresh salads, you can make an issue out of everything Chill out and mind your own business

    #1901527
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Toi: You are probably correct with regard to my focus on the Trumkopf’s efforts to undermine the public health and medical communities with junk science and political paranoia assertions of deep state activists in FDA working against him. Today he was out in California to survey the fire damage but deny that global warming was a factor as the scientists in the Forest Service and NOAA have concluded. Also, do you remember his ill-fated Executive order creating a Commission on Vaccines right after his inauguration. Once he brought in RFK Jr. to participate, his advisors quickly ditched the effort since it would have poured gasoline on an already growing anti-vaxer movement.

    #1901565
    tzadik613
    Participant

    There’s nothing wrong with bochurim having a drink or two of bourbon or scotch after a whole
    day of shtieging.

    #1901582
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Tzadik613: The yungerleit deserve at least TWO post-shteig drinks on those evenings they aren’t attending their AA meetings. Thursdays may be problematic since most cholent joints only serve beer but not hard liquor.

    #1901609
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Tzadik,

    Taking a shot or two every day is problematic.

    How often is a whole day of shtieging?

    #1901721
    Toi
    Participant

    @GH- I see how deeply committed you are to being deeply committed to being paranoid about him and never seeing what he does as positive. Would it be good if he cured cancer?

    #1901786
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    GH, you seem to have overlooked that Gov Newsom of California agreed that Trump was right in that years of accumulation of millions of pounds of dead leaves and trees on the forest floor provided the fuel that made the fires much worse. Newsom said California had to begin effective forest management

    #1901824
    midwesterner
    Participant

    I saw a post with one paragraph, two sentences. Sentence #1 was about cigarettes at simchas. Sentence #2 was about denying those people tuition benefits.
    I am not pro-smoking at all. Chas Veshalom. It’s a horrible habit that disgusts me. Another horrible habit that disgusts me even more though, is people that try to manage the lives of others. Having sat on tuition committees at more than one local school for at least two decades (retired after my last child graduated HS, BH!!!!) most of my struggles have been with those of my colleagues (thankfully not many of them out here) that want to create full budgets for peoples entire lives before granting minimal hanachos.

    #1902000
    BenK
    Participant

    It says One can not Rebuke a Lets as they make everything into a joke.
    For example smoking and drinking is Addictive and a chilul hashem.
    In the yeshiva referenced some get DRUNK weekly and its Not Purim. Is this a college dorm or a Yeshiva? And smoking and second hand smoke according to All Medical profesionals is DANGEROUS to health and life, It SAYS in the TORAH Vshamartem Meod Al Nafshosaychem and VChai Bahem and Kal Yisroel Arayvim Zeh Lazeh, That means serious chilul Hashem and Dangerous behavior should be STOPPED by Hanhalah in yeshiva. It also WRONGFULLY endangers through second hand smoke and PEER PRESSURE

    #1902006
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ben,

    Who is to say that this behavior is specific to yeshiva? Do working boys not smoke and drink? Do yeshiva boys not smoke and drink at home?

    #1902013
    charliehall
    Participant

    “It is not a life or death matter. And definitely not a degradation toward God.”

    Actually, smoking is the single most preventable cause of death in most of the world. And we are thumbing our nose towards HaShem who has gifted us with life if we do stupid stuff that endangers our lives — like smoking, or going to mass spreading events.

    #1902014
    charliehall
    Participant

    Most California forests are on federal land. Specifically, 57 percent of California forests are on federal land, 3% is state land, and the rest is private. It is Trump who has been mismanaging the federal land. And the private property worshipers will balk at any government regulation of what they do on their own land.

    Currently, of the 29 significant fires in California, only seven are not on federal land. But Trump’s cult will insist that he is NEVER responsible for ANYTHING.

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