February 27, 2022 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #2064494
It well may be that this was the only path of action given the dismal state of political entities, especially in Europe but also here. But so far the gradual escalation that had a declared purpose to prevent further aggression failed. Militarily, the gradual policy is not optimal: a month ago, supplies were flown to Ukraine by air, now they are driven by trucks through Poland and can be easily bombed from the air. Ukrainians probably also need time to position those missiles in the right places. It would have been better to give all supplies in advance and then take them back if they are not needed. It for sure would have been better for the army. Might that have been a better deterrence? Maybe not, but it would not have been worse.February 27, 2022 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #2064507
“Your hatred of Biden is blinding you to his excellent leadership. He is a great uniter and it is clear to see.”
Even CNN is reporting that Brandon’s poll numbers are dropping to record lows and the American people consider him to be an abject failure on every issue. What are you smoking?February 27, 2022 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #2064508
Gates just said today that he thinks that Biden is handling the situation with Putin and Ukraine very well .February 27, 2022 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #2064653
The Democratic Party does NOT have the same values it did when I was growing up. I’m going to assume that the Torah you say is yours is the same one that I hold so dearly as well. This is the same Torah that stands for Emes. I realized that the Democratic Party was headed in the wrong direction during the impeachment of former President Bill Clinton. I’m not agreeing with what he did but I definitely sympathized with him when he lied under oath and saw where he was coming from. My issue was that not a single one of the Democratic Senators had an issue with him lying under oath and voted against removing him from office.
This same Torah that I hold so dearly mentions numerous relationships that are strictly forbidden. By one of them, yes- the same one your party is fighting so hard to force conservatives to recognize, the Torah calls it an abomination. How anyone calling themselves a G-d fearing Yid can stand behind a party like that is beyond me.
The Torah that I hold so dearly is also against murder, yet the Democratic Party has no issue with killing unborn babies- the most innocent and defenseless among us. Again- how anyone calling themselves a G-d fearing Yid can stand behind a party like that is beyond me.
The Torah that I hold so dearly is also very against stealing, yet the policies (and consequences) in place in Democratic run cities seems to encourage stealing and other lawlessness kinds of behavior.
You also mentioned that Hashem tells you to care for the underprivileged. The majority of Republicans would have no issues helping out in a productive way. The system in place now just continues the cycle of poverty. The poor people- how about instead of just giving them money for an infinite amount of time- how about spending a fraction of the money for a limited amount of time and getting them the training that they need to be on their own feet?
Yes, there will be times that widows or others with physical or mental handicaps will needs to receive government assistance on a permanent basis but that should be the extreme minority.February 27, 2022 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #2064659
To quote what you wrote earlier on in this thread-
“Under Trump we had the highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression…”
This seems like you’re purposely being vague over here. As a statistician you should be providing more details. Was this before Covid or after Covid (or both)?
Are you only including people who are actively looking for work but can’t find anything or anyone who should be in the workforce but isn’t?
Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.
ThanksFebruary 28, 2022 8:19 am at 8:19 am #2064686LostsparkParticipant
He is a great uniter and it is clear to see.
Siri que “Red Calvary March” by the Red Army ChiorFebruary 28, 2022 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #2064992bored_teen 💕Participant
Jackk- I didn’t say that you don’t defend, I said you can’t defend without bringing up Trump. If you’d like, I’d happily create a thread detailing all of Biden’s foreign policy fails. I hope you’ll forgive me, Mr. Gates’ opinion doesn’t mean a lot to me.February 28, 2022 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #2065021
I heard a question on the radio
Name one policy success of Biden’sMarch 1, 2022 12:15 am at 12:15 am #2065027
jackk > Gates just said today that he thinks that Biden is handling the situation with Putin and Ukraine very well .
I found this was a CNN interview. He is not praising Biden in general. He is asked a pointed question and answers tersely “this was done right” and several minutes later talks about things we need to do differently which implies they were done right before. You are just not used to listen to polite people talking. He is not going to go on a rant and tries to find good things to praise wherever he can find them.March 1, 2022 1:40 am at 1:40 am #2065033MarxistParticipant
coffee addict- He rejoined the Paris Climate Agreement.March 1, 2022 1:42 am at 1:42 am #2065060
“My issue was that not a single one of the Democratic Senators had an issue with him lying under oath and voted against removing him from office.”
The issue was that he was lying under oath about a personal relationship. They did not feel that deserved impeachment.
“By one of them, yes- the same one your party is fighting so hard to force conservatives to recognize, the Torah calls it an abomination. How anyone calling themselves a G-d fearing Yid can stand behind a party like that is beyond me.”
I will answer you like I have answered others before. Neither party is the Torah party and we are not disagreeing on the Torah. The argument is about America. America is a democratic country. (If you want to live where they punish for this kind of relationship, you can move to SA.)We are disagreeing on what a democratic country should/could do about a person in a relationship that the Torah condemns. There is also a commandment against Idol Worship. It is one of the big Three. But America was founded on freedom of religion so you would never expect either party to take a stand to make worshipping of idols illegal. Although I would be fully supportive of it.
“The Torah that I hold so dearly is also very against stealing, yet the policies (and consequences) in place in Democratic run cities seems to encourage stealing and other lawlessness kinds of behavior.”
Sorry, Democrats don’t encourage stealing or lawlessness.
FYI – Americans that vote republican are very good at stealing and lawlessness also. The jails are full of them.
“You also mentioned that Hashem tells you to care for the underprivileged. The majority of Republicans would have no issues helping out in a productive way. The system in place now just continues the cycle of poverty. The poor people- how about instead of just giving them money for an infinite amount of time- how about spending a fraction of the money for a limited amount of time and getting them the training that they need to be on their own feet?”
That is a good idea. Bring up to the next republican candidate that you vote for.
“Yes, there will be times that widows or others with physical or mental handicaps will needs to receive government assistance on a permanent basis but that should be the extreme minority.”
Agreed. But in our capitalistic society, if the government doesn’t take care of them, then nobody will.
You did not answer on how you support a party that does not care for the widows , poor, orphans, immigrants etc ..? All the social programs have been done by the democratic party.March 1, 2022 1:42 am at 1:42 am #2065061
That is not fair. You quoted Robert Gates to criticize Biden and now you are saying that you don’t care about what he says.
The mods are very benevolent. You can start any thread you want. But first do research. Real research. And be ready to defend what you write. Because I will probably disagree with you.March 1, 2022 1:43 am at 1:43 am #2065062
You are correct about the CNN interview.
I also could have originally responded about Robert Gates that what he says in his book is simply one person’s opinion. Even Mordechai Hatzaddik was only “Ratzui L’rov Echav” and not “Lchol Echav”March 1, 2022 8:51 am at 8:51 am #2065115hujuParticipant
To GadolKadofi: To answer your question – Chabad cares about the silly views of non-frum Jews. It reaches out to change their silly views. Frum Jews (and all other Jews) need all the Jews they can get. What, if anything, are you doing to help.March 1, 2022 9:31 am at 9:31 am #2065140
Huju: There is a regular cadre of “virtual maalachim” lurking here in the YWN who are totally dismissive of a large segment of the Jewish population, including MO, OO, Conservative, reform and even some whose frumkeit index or hashkafah is “questionable” using their metrics. (Indeed, they take issue with referring to them as “Yidden”). I assume that several of them believe they represent toras Moshe M’Sinai in its purest form and it is their obligation to enforce a strict discipline and call out apikorsus wherever it may be suggested. That includes branding ALL those who vote for Democratic candidate or subscribe to a Democratic party perspective on some issues as apikorsim, “rats” and other childish Trump-like name calling. While some are simply trolling there are some who must be truly frustrated that the Mods don’t ban those posters who express views contrary to their hashkafah so they must work assiduously to “flag” such heresy.
Your comment about the incredible work of Chabad with Yidden of all persuasions is indicative of the reality of the world most of us live in that is a bit less Judgemental and considerably more open to bringing yidden back to yiddeshkeit than calling out their failures. As someone who has likely visited as many chabad centers around the world as any CR poster (who does not work directly for 770) I am amazed at the failure of the Litvish velt to recognize their contributions to yiddeshkeit but quick to battle over moishichist issues.March 1, 2022 11:13 am at 11:13 am #2065153
“That includes branding ALL those who vote for Democratic candidate or subscribe to a Democratic party perspective on some issues as apikorsim, “rats” and other childish Trump-like name calling.”
It works the other way around tooMarch 1, 2022 11:13 am at 11:13 am #2065162
You said it best yourself: “It reaches out to change their silly views”. Dorah seems to think that since the overwhelming majority of Jews in the U.S. vote Democrat in lockstep, Orthodox Jews should automatically do the same.
We must all reach out to them, they are our brothers and sisters but we don’t have to kowtow to their political views or outlook on Judaism. Chabad certainly doesn’t!March 1, 2022 11:13 am at 11:13 am #2065177
“The issue was that he was lying under oath about a personal relationship. They did not feel that deserved impeachment.”
Are you saying that it’s OK to lie under oath if it’s about a personal relationship? Also- the senators should have been voting to uphold the law- not based on their feelings. If they want to change the law there’s a process for that but they were elected to uphold the law. That’s one of the issues I have with the supreme court nominee- she’s had too many rulings overruled by higher courts. Either she doesn’t know the Constitution or she’s been ruling based on her feelings. Something really scary for someone on the highest court (that can not be overruled).
Next point- There’s a big difference between redefining the word “marriage” to include unions that are not between one male and one female and to go ahead and execute people that are in those kinds of relationships. If what they do is behind closed doors and it affects no one else- let them do what they want. When it comes to redefining what marriage is- that’s when it becomes everyone’s business and any G-d fearing Yid should not stand behind that party.
“Sorry, Democrats don’t encourage stealing or lawlessness.
FYI – Americans that vote republican are very good at stealing and lawlessness also. The jails are full of them.”
The very fact that these people are in jail shows that it’s not lawlessness. Whenever there are laws there are going to be people that break them. The point is to throw the violators in jail, that is a sign of lawfulness. The lawlessness that I was referring to is the laws that allow people to steal (in full view of security guards and police) and not face any consequences. (E.g. Not prosecuting for thefts under $950 and no cash bail…) This encourages (or at least does nothing to discourage) theft and violent crime.
“That is a good idea. Bring up to the next republican candidate that you vote for.”
I didn’t have to bring it up to the last Republican candidate that I voted for. Former President Donald Trump knew it very well and had great policies to bring jobs back the U.S. thereby decreasing the dependencies on Government handouts for many able bodied people.
“Agreed. But in our capitalistic society, if the government doesn’t take care of them, then nobody will.”
I think we both know good and well that no matter how right wing a Republican government is- they will still take care of those that simply can not take care of themselves.
“You did not answer on how you support a party that does not care for the widows , poor, orphans, immigrants etc ..? All the social programs have been done by the democratic party.”
I sure did- read my post again. “The majority of Republicans would have no issues helping out in a productive way.”
Also- the Democratic party that started these programs is not the same Democratic party we have nowadays- except it’s name. The social programs were started by the Democratic party that Frum Yidden were able to vote for. There was a slow transition from the Democratic party of yesteryear to the Democratic Party we have nowadays. I don’t condone the personal behavior of Former President Bill Clinton but I think his policies were acceptable. In my personal opinion Former President Obama brought the party way too far to the left and anti the Torah values we as Yidden are proud of.
I noticed that you neglected to refute my point about G-d fearing Yidden not being able to stand behind a party that fights for the right to kill unborn babies for no reason other than it being an inconvenience for the person who is carrying them. Does that mean that you agree with me or did it just slip your mind?March 1, 2022 11:57 am at 11:57 am #2065182
For all your pretend tolerance, you two are the nastiest, most judgmental posters on this site.
Nastiest? We would beg to differ on that callMarch 1, 2022 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #2065240
For someone who regularly employs labels such as “moron, nitwit, crazy, fool, jerk, deranged” and worse, it’s a tad hypocritical for you to cry crocodile tears about name calling. I also don’t recall any response from you to Charlie’s posts calling people apikorsim about COVID and anti-Semites over politics.
Or does your pretend tolerance only work in one direction?March 1, 2022 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #2065247🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
GH – (The original one) – I’m sorry, your post makes no sense. I hear your constant frustration that people are not accepting of other Jews who are not homogeneous. But to get annoyed that people are not giving respect and tolerance to people who go against Torah (the real one) or who use all their kochos to distort torah and lead others astray is mind blowing. I understand your expectation of achdus and tolerance but are you trying to tell me you actually think that there should be tolerance of people destroy torah? Or are you trying to imply that accusing them of that is just our opinion, or perception and really people can do whatever they want with torah as long as there is a popular concensus?
Are you bothered that people can’t acknowledge the good of chabad because of the bad (which I think you are wrong on, btw), or are you actually trying to say that someone “just being a mashichist” shouldn’t be so annoying to us?
These types of posts written here and there are what remind me of the pitfalls of your version of tolerance. Although, as you know, I have NEVER condoned the levels or styles of INtolerance we see here from a few posters, your preferred path seems to have dangerous pits and valleys, whose greatest danger seems to be that you fail to see or acknowledge their presence.March 1, 2022 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #2065337bored_teen 💕Participant
Jackk- I brought up Gates because I figured YOU would believe someone on your side more than you’d believe me.March 1, 2022 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #2065349
Syag: With respect, I just don’t see the majority of non-frum people you demonize as “trying to destroy torah” and don’t see any merit in debating you on that basic point. Nor do I see the few crazies in Chabad running around with yellow flags as negating the order of magnitude greater positives of the Chabad shiluchim around the world. Lets just agree we cannot agree.March 1, 2022 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #2065351🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Which was basically my point
P.s. I was specifically NOT talking about the non frum.March 1, 2022 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #2065366
jackk, Bob Gates is not daas yachid. There are plenty of people not thinking Biden is not a boke (as of now about 60% of US population). I think the reason this phrase is repeated is because of Gates reputation as being moderate and mild. And this was unprompted. And quite a succinct way to summarize 40 years.March 3, 2022 2:22 am at 2:22 am #2065803
Bob Gates wrote about the 40 years in his book. Moderate and Mild but not incapable of stupid and meaningless politically motivated statements.
It was quite a stupid and meaningless “summary”. I would call it a criticism which reflects more on Bob Gates than it does on Biden.
“60% of US population” . So what ? Trump voters view Putin more favorably that Biden. Why should Biden care about what they think ?
He is doing an excellent job as President. Everyone gets to second guess him and right now Republicans can’t even make up their minds. Either Biden is doing too little in Ukraine and they want America to lead our EU allies and show strength by sending troops to Ukraine or Biden is doing too much and we should just sit back and let Putin conquer and “take back” his Ukraine.
Maybe you can explain what is meant by 40 years ?March 3, 2022 7:47 am at 7:47 am #2065828
Would you mind responding to me as well?March 3, 2022 9:24 am at 9:24 am #2065866
jackk > Trump voters view Putin more favorably that Biden
why are you falling so low to use this in a discussion? This is a good pun that someone at YWN did. You can as well say that Biden is less popular in US than Putin, or something. Both are marginally popular.March 3, 2022 9:26 am at 9:26 am #2065872
jackk, not saying that there is a simple solution to this problem but in most cases Biden’s original declarations do not hold out – Kabul fell when it was not supposed to; limited sanctions showed Putin that he might go in, thinking that this will be it; supporting NordStream2 possibly showed same thing; declaring before the invasion that we will not fight there; now declaring that we will not enforce no-fly zone as UKR is asking. There are multiple possible justifications for some of these policies – staying in sync with Germans, but excuses for failures is not same as successes.
I think the problem is that current foreign political team is inexperienced and full of theories that they learned. And they apply these theories and are often wrong. Some report that Biden selected such a team to be able to do things he was asking for before and was always frustrated that he was laughed at by Ivy Leaguers (not just Gates, Obama and Bush also disregarded his sage advice).March 3, 2022 9:46 am at 9:46 am #2065883
Biden cannot acknowledge being a 1-term president that would enable him to blow off the progressive wingl of the party, at least not yet, since doing so would create a lame duck situation where he would get marginalized from both sides. He is trying, thusfar with limited success, to search for what I believe is an incredibly small centrist consensus on domestic issues, while gaining some traction on the short term quasi unity on Ukraine.March 3, 2022 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #2065918
Everyone gets to second guess him and right now Republicans can’t even make up their minds what they want.
Hannity and his followers want Putin killed and America to be more aggressive. Tucker and his followers wonder what Putin has done that is so bad.
Biden is not a prophet and in a war the enemy has a say in what happens. In war it happens all the time. Just ask Putin if he expected his invasion to go this way.
– Biden’s intel was that the Afghan army would be able to hold Kabul. They surprised us by folding in half in record time.
– Limited sanctions – there are many other republicans saying the opposite. That Biden by his antagonizing of Putin through NATO and declarations against him, gave Putin no choice but to go in. The opposite, by supporting Nordstream he gave Putin what he wanted and removed a reason for him to attack Ukraine.
I don’t see a single failure in all the cases you mentioned. They are all foreign policy successes.
Where do you get that his foreign policy team is inexperienced?March 3, 2022 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #2065922
Regarding a no fly zone.
If you are for it that means that you approve of an escalation of the conflict with American jets shooting down Russians. (Or the opposite.)
That would put America as part of the war.
Is that what you want?March 3, 2022 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #2066023
And jackk still hasn’t responded to dr. Pepper
Which leads me to speculate that he doesn’t have an answer and is trying to ignore himMarch 3, 2022 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #2066033
1) “Are you saying that it’s OK to lie under oath if it’s about a personal relationship?”
No. I am saying that it is not an impeachable offense.
Impeachment is for Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
2) “When it comes to redefining what marriage is- that’s when it becomes everyone’s business and any G-d fearing Yid should not stand behind that party.”
You are correct. There should only be civil unions because marriage in secular America is not the Torah definition of marriage. The Torah does not recognize a marriage certificate. It recognizes 2 Bnei Noach living under the same roof.
America complicated the issue by defining marriage and making laws associated with it. According to Torah , a Ben Noach cannot “marry” a Bas Yisroel. In America, it is called a marriage.
3) “The lawlessness that I was referring to is the laws that allow people to steal (in full view of security guards and police) and not face any consequences. ” Please bring a source that there are no consequences.
4) “President Donald Trump knew it very well and had great policies to bring jobs back the U.S. thereby decreasing the dependencies on Government handouts for many able bodied people.”
So do Democrats.
Biden’s first year was the greatest year of job creation in American history, with more than 6 million jobs created.
The unemployment rate dropped from 6.2% when Biden took office to 3.9%, the biggest single year drop in American history.
The average number of Americans filing for unemployment has been near its lowest level since 1969. When the President took office, over 18 million were receiving unemployment benefits, today only 2 million are—also the biggest single year drop in history.
Nearly 5 million Americans have newly gained health insurance coverage.
The number of households reporting that they sometimes or often did not have enough food to eat dropped by 32%.
5) “I think we both know good and well that no matter how right wing a Republican government is- they will still take care of those that simply can not take care of themselves.”
Why do Republicans keep trying to deny Americans healthcare coverage and to defund the social programs that rely on the Government ? You know that people die without healthcare coverage?
6) I neglected the rights of the unborn because:
1) It was hinted to when I wrote that we are not arguing over what the Torah says.
2) I despise writing about it.
The American law should be that whatever the Torah allows is legal and whatever it doesn’t should be illegal. If you can write an American law that says that , I will give you great credit.
3) The republicans are a little hypocritical on their concern for murder when they vote against any sane laws to limit access to weapons. How could a G-d fearing Yid vote for a party that wants assault weapons to be easily attained?
Everyone in the CR knows that I have answers to these questions since what I wrote above is not new.March 3, 2022 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #2066092
jackk > I don’t see a single failure in all the cases you mentioned. They are all foreign policy successes.
they are not successes. You are saying that there are excuses for the failures and that situations were difficult. Blaming “intel” is not good enough. Presidents are supposed to lead, ask questions, seek independent opinions. Trump had several generals and thinkers around him who many times disagreed with each other and him, he used to call people he respected in business. Even Obama consulted Biden after talking to generals – even if he did not follow Biden’s opinion.
Biden is known in the past to reverse his silly opinions (like partitioning Iraq) when confronted with strong arguments and opposition. But now he is not getting it: he is surrounded by the bubble of like-minded people, who are less experienced than him. Media is making it worse – they do not criticize him until it is a total failure.
We learn from this how happy we should be that Hashem punishes us for every little error, while other nations only when fail fully.March 3, 2022 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2066094
jackk – you are watching too much fox news – there are no Hannity and Tucker republicans. Read people at the level of Bob Gates. On war: people like David Petraeus, David Deptula, at least journalists who have deep knowledge of military affairs. People disagree but at least their statements make sense.
On no-fly zone. I don’t have a good answer. Recall Putin did “humanitarian” convoys into Eastern Ukraine. Maybe we should do “humanitarian” no-fly zone to ensure delivery of medicines in western ukraine?
Note that the west is already behind with every measure – all sanctions now go as punishment for the things that happen rather than deterrent. And as it is inadequate punishment – you bombard a city, we arrest your yacht; you level a city, we will stop buying vodka – it creates an impression that we will never respond in kind. Right now a powerplant is burning with wind towards west. How is that not a threat to Nato that requires a response?March 3, 2022 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #2066105
1) It’s up to the House to decide if what he was accused of is an impeachable offense and whether you like it or not they decided that it is and impeached him. It’s up to the Senate to decide if there is enough evidence to prove that he’s guilty- not to decide if he should have been impeached in the first place. Like I mentioned earlier on about the Supreme Court nominee- she seems to have had many of her rulings overruled by higher courts- she either isn’t familiar with the Constitution or she rules the way she wants the law to be.
2) I’m not sure what you’re getting at over here. Can you just explain how you can stand up for a political party that wants to redefine the word “marriage” to include relationships that the Torah call an abomination?
3) There’s plenty of videos all over the Internet showing people walking in to drug stores and walking out with hundreds of Dollars worth of merchandise right in front eyes of the security guards. There are plenty of stories in the news of people getting arrested (even multiple times in a single day) yet they get let out without even having to post bail. Are you unfamiliar with these videos and stories or do you consider it a consequence that they were inconvenienced by being captured before being immediately released?
4) You seem to be going on a tangent over here to promote the Democrats but stop short of saying what the policies were that created all these jobs. Let’s get back to the main topic.
If so many jobs were created- has the cost of Government handouts gone down?
5) You seem to have gone on another tangent over here to bring in health care. This is a complicated topic which is beyond the scope of this thread. As an actuary who briefly worked in the ACA, I have a much deeper understanding of the internal details than what’s been discussed here. I’ve seen the numbers first hand and can tell you that it had no chance of sustaining itself the way it was designed. (One of the most common comments I recall from my colleagues is “How did anyone think this would work?”)
But back to the main point- you had originally asked who would take care of people who no matter what will never be able to stand up on their own (e.g. people with disabilities). I answered that you know good and well that no matter how right wing a government is they will never abandon them.
6) I’m not sure what you’re getting at over here either- and you seemed to have gone on another tangent by brining up assault weapons. Instead of answering my question about how you can stand up for a party that wants to permit the killing of unborn babies you turn it around to say that Republicans are hypocritical for calling it murder. Can you answer the question without turning it around?
The topic of guns is very complicated. If there was some way to get dangerous weapons out of the hands of criminals and convicted felons then maybe you’d have a complaint against them. As of now- the criminals seem to be getting them illegally from somewhere and innocent civilians need to protect themselves somehow. Imagine how much worse the crime would be if the criminals would know that the innocent people they are attacking are not armed.March 3, 2022 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #2066114amomParticipant
You couldn’t have said it better.
Finally, a discussion on policies and not just bashing specific individuals.
It’s not pro-Trump anti-Trump pro-Biden anti-Biden. It’s the actions and the policies. And what makes a stronger and better America. And of course taking a look which party best aligns with our values.
There are many republicans that truly have no idea what the party stands for and these people can’t have an actual discussion with someone like jackk. They just yell Brandon.
They will all do well to have a good discussion to get a bit more educated with dr. pepper.March 3, 2022 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #2066115amomParticipant
Dr. Pepper just one point,
Crimes are waaaaayyyy up where I am from, and yes guns are illegal.
Criminals don’t have to worry about the innocent victims having a gun and they don’t have to worry about going to prison because of bail reform that democrats put into place and don’t want to get rid of.
Jackk what do you think of that?March 3, 2022 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #2066119
for those who argue about jobs. Unemployment rate is a somewhat misleading number as it excludes people who are not seeking employment. A better number is Labor Force Participation Rate , especially for key ages 25-54 Yrs. (LNS11300060) (the latter excludes a drift in ages over time):
it fell off during Bush I from historical high 84 to 83 and stayed there,
continuously fell to 81 under Obama, started going up Jan 2016 and straight up thru Trump years up to Covid – back to 83
at Covid fell to 80 and back up to 81 under Trump,
up to 82 under bidenMarch 3, 2022 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #2066127
jackk, re: no fly zone
2 days ago, David Deptula (who ran no-fly zone over Iraq) was answering questions about that. He does not dismiss it, just says it is a complicated operation, requiring defining the rules and risks of escalation.
He concludes with ambiguity: there could be a “nuanced option” that might permit a limited no-fly z one. “If proposed by the [European Union] or the United Nations, if there was established a humanitarian exclusion zone from conflict in western Ukraine, one might posit that one could establish a no-fly zone there,” he said. “But you’d still want to have a degree of strategic ambiguity over who’s going to enforce that to get around the complication of NATO and Russian forces directly engaging one another…But even that becomes difficult.”March 4, 2022 9:53 am at 9:53 am #2066212
They are successes. He made the very best decisions based on his information and based on his ability to react to the enemy. That is not an excuse. It is reality. And it is what everyone expects from him to do.
I imagine that you do not have any inside info on Biden’s decision making processes. Nor into the discussions that go on behind the scenes. So your post is pure speculation . You also didn’t tell me who you think are his less-experienced advisers.
“Media is making it worse – they do not criticize him until it is a total failure.”
You are projecting your ideas onto what you want the media to do. There is no lack of people criticizing him. Maybe he should get the benefit of the doubt since he has intel info that nobody in the media has.
“We learn from this how happy we should be that Hashem punishes us for every little error, while other nations only when fail fully.”
We need to strive to be on a madreiga to be able inculcate happiness when Hashem is punishing Klal Yisroel for every little Aveirah , whereas , he lets the Goyim sin and sin for thousands of years without punishment.
It is very good thought for Adar and Purim.March 4, 2022 10:46 am at 10:46 am #2066216
(You know I can’t listen to fox news for even 2 sentences.)
“there are no Hannity and Tucker republicans”
I used them as an example of how people get to second guess everything that Biden does and blame it on his not listening to anybody or having less-experienced advisers.
“On no-fly zone. I don’t have a good answer. “. And you don’t have to give a good answer, because you are not POTUS. POTUS is responsible and he has weighed the 2 sides.
“Note that the west is already behind with every measure – all sanctions now go as punishment for the things that happen rather than deterrent. And as it is inadequate punishment – you bombard a city, we arrest your yacht; you level a city, we will stop buying vodka – it creates an impression that we will never respond in kind. Right now a powerplant is burning with wind towards west. How is that not a threat to Nato that requires a response?”
AAQ, I detect that you are willing to send American Jets and Soldiers to fight against Russia and die in Ukraine.
It is easy for us to say this because we are not ultimately responsible for the lives of Americans. If the public in America on both the right and left would agree to encourage this action , then we can think of it. Right now, I don’t think the American public wants to send American Jets and Soldiers to fight Russia and die in Ukraine.March 4, 2022 10:47 am at 10:47 am #2066220
“They are successes. He made the very best decisions based on his information and based on his ability to react to the enemy. That is not an excuse. It is reality. And it is what everyone expects from him to do.
I imagine that you do not have any inside info on Biden’s decision making processes. Nor into the discussions that go on behind the scenes. So your post is pure speculation . You also didn’t tell me who you think are his less-experienced advisers.“
Wow! Two years ago you were saying trump is an idiot, yet if you put those words to him you wouldn’t believe it (I know you would answer “he doesn’t listen to his advisers but that’s your speculation)March 4, 2022 10:48 am at 10:48 am #2066226
About the SCOTUS nominee, we can have a separate discussion.
1) Impeachment is much more complicated than you are making it. And since we have had 2 impeachments after Clinton that did not result in removal from office , I am sure you know that.
2) How can I support any party in secular America ? Both of them are not the Torah party run by Rabbanim. America is not defining the Torah’s marriage. The word “marriage” with a marriage certificate is not mentioned in the Torah.
3) I am not sure what you are getting at here. What does videos of people stealing in front of security guards have to do with anything ?
I just want to know where Democrats have made it that there are no consequences for stealing.
4) “If so many jobs were created- has the cost of Government handouts gone down?” Definitely . But I don’t have the numbers.
5) “I’ve seen the numbers first hand and can tell you that it had no chance of sustaining itself the way it was designed.” So it had to be modified but Republicans decided it needs to be repealed without replacing.
“I answered that you know good and well that no matter how right wing a government is they will never abandon them.” I do not trust republicans to do the right thing if they can’t gain from it financially.
The republicans will abandon them. By cutting the budgets from the social programs they have already abandoned them.
6) How do you live in America when the Supreme Court decided that a lady has the permission from the constitution to kill their unborn baby? How come you are only discussing the current nominee for Scotus but not the 9 justices who decided Roe v Wade? Were all 9 of them leftists democrats?
I despise discussing the topic because I don’t want to make light of the serious issue of Retzicha.
I answered your question in general on the first line. We are not arguing about the Torah. We are arguing about America.
If you have decided that you can only vote for the political party that shtims with the Torah, you can stay home on election day. No Torah person believes that it is the Torah’s hashkafa that everyone should be able to easily own assault weapons.March 4, 2022 10:48 am at 10:48 am #2066227
“And of course taking a look which party best aligns with our values.”
So you have watered down that charge of ” how can you vote for the party that wants to keep abortion legal? ” to “which party best aligns with our values.
I agree that a factor in who we vote for is which party best aligns with our values.
But that is only one factor in a complicated decision on who to vote for. Sometimes there are other factors that should be taken into consideration.March 4, 2022 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2066238
1) The Supreme Court nominee should be a different discussion- I just brought up a point here that the nominee seems to rule the way she wants the law to be- not the way the law is. If she wants the law to be changed, there’s a different branch of the Government that deals with that.
Yes, impeachment is much more complicated that’s why I tried to break it down to a simple piece- the senators were supposed to rule on whether he broke the law or not by lying under oath, it was up to the House to decide if it was an impeachable offense or not. The senators were not supposed to vote on if they felt it was an impeachable offence or not. Can you please address that point?
I know about the other two impeachments that were brought since Former President Clinton. What’s your point? The second one had no chance of removing him from office as he had already left office. In my opinion it was brought as political revenge (do you recall Nancy Pelosi giggling while handing out impeachment pens?).
2) You seem to be avoiding the question here. Neither party is Frum or backed by the Torah. Yidden should vote for the party that has values that are closer to the Torah. There’s a party that’s trying to force the country to recognize relationships that the Torah calls an abomination. A Frum Yid should not stand behind that party.
3) You asked me to bring a source that this lawlessness is going on. Videos of people stealing merchandise in front of security guards who can’t do anything is lawlessness. By Democrats not allowing the thieves to be arrested for stealing less than a certain amount and allowing violent offenders to get released that same day without having to post any cash bail- they have removed all (or most) of the consequences. The majority of this is taking place in Democrat run cities.
4) So can you answer this question- are you for taking away benefits from able working people after a certain amount of time (say five years) once they had a chance to get back onto their feet?(Obviously with exceptions for those who fall on hard times again.)
5) No- there’s no modification that would have helped it. It needed to be fully repealed. The US is not in a place where universal healthcare (or any type of health care for everyone run by the Government) can work.
We can disagree here but I don’t think Republicans will ever abandon those that can not take care of themselves. It seems like you do feel that way. We’ll just have to disagree on that point.
6) I live in the U.S. because it is the country where Frum Yidden can live the most comfortably. We have equal rights and when choosing between two parties that do not represent the Torah we can, without fear, vote against the one that is more against the Torahs values.
I brought up the current Supreme Court nominee because she either clearly doesn’t know the constitution too well or decides on cases based on her personal feelings- this was relevant to the first point above. The three nominees from Former President Trump do not always vote Conservative even though that’s they’re view- they vote with the Constitution. Apparently Justice Kagan never had any ruling overturned but that’s just because she was never a judge.
I don’t stay home on election day because I need to vote Republican- not that I agree with them in everything but more importantly to vote against the Democrats.March 4, 2022 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #2066241
If I don’t hear from you before שבת- have a גוט שבת and a גוטין חודש.
AviMarch 4, 2022 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #2066261
1) “Can you please address that point?”
I am not a Constitutional scholar and I cannot point to the actual verse where the role of the senate in impeachment is not to simply judge whether the law was broken.
On the constitution.congress.gov website they say that “Because impeachment is a political process largely unchecked by the judiciary, the role of the Senate in impeachment proceedings is primarily determined by historical practice, rather than judicial interpretation.”
“What’s your point? “
My point is that it has been made abundantly clear by the last 2 impeachments in the Senate that they do not simply rule on whether the law was broken as you say.
I can point to the verse why Trump was impeached after he was out of office – Article I, Section 3—”subject to disqualification from holding future office if convicted”.
2) “Yidden should vote for the party that has values that are closer to the Torah.” As I answered to Amom that is a very important consideration but not the only consideration.
“A Frum Yid should not stand behind that party.”
A Frum Yid should not stand behind either party!
3) I understand that you see a correlation between the democrats ‘ not allowing the thieves to be arrested for stealing less than a certain amount and allowing violent offenders to get released that same day without having to post any cash bail’ and shoplifting . But I will need more evidence of this. Bail was not instituted so that rich people can get out of jail immediately and poor people can’t.
5) “No- there’s no modification that would have helped it. It needed to be fully repealed. The US is not in a place where universal healthcare (or any type of health care for everyone run by the Government) can work.”
Well, it wasn’t repealed and Obamacare is still helping people get medical coverage.
Regarding your shita that a Frum Yid must vote Republican, I have a question for you. Do you have a Rav or Posek who told you that you can never vote for a Democrat and that you must vote Republican?
Gut ShabbosMarch 7, 2022 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #2066978
I didn’t forget about you- I just had a very busy weekend.
1) We seem to be going in circles over here. It’s my understanding that the House decides if the crime is an impeachable offense and the Senate votes on whether there’s enough evidence to show that the crime was committed- it’s not up to the Senate to decide if the offense is impeachable or not. Impeachment is for Treason, Bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. I think perjury is a serious enough crime to fit in that category.
I’m no expert in the Constitution so if I’m wrong please point me to where in the Constitution it says otherwise. Otherwise I have nothing left to add to this topic.
Also, are you saying that since this was regarding a personal relationship he shouldn’t have been removed from office for committing perjury? Would you also say that if he shot Monica when he was done that he shouldn’t have been removed from office since it was part of a personal relationship?
Regarding the two recent impeachments- Democrats made a mockery of the process by saying that they were going to impeach him before he was even sworn in- they just needed the numbers and once they got that after the midterm elections they went for it. Did you expect anyone to take them seriously when Nancy Pelosi got up there giggling and giving out impeachment pens as souvenirs? This was only done for political revenge and to waste time.
2) I agree that a Frum Yid should not stand behind any party but pardon me mentioning this- you seem to stand very strongly behind the Democratic party and have an answer for everything that they do. I haven’t read through all you posts but I don’t think you ever said that you strongly disagree with them trying to force society to recognize relationships that the Torah call an abomination or that you disagree with the notion that unborn babies should be killed at the whim of the mother but we should continue voting Democrat as it’s the lesser of two evils (because they give generous handouts).
3) I’m not sure what you’re getting at over here. You are correct that bail wasn’t instituted so that rich people can get out of jail immediately and poor people can’t. Bail was instituted so that people who were arrested or charged with a crime can stay out of jail until they are tried and convicted (and probably so that they behave while they are out). The cash (or bond) that they are expected to put down is to ensure that they show up to their trial. It’s easier for rich people to post bail but the poor people have options as well. Go to any rough neighborhoods and you’ll see bail bondsman all over the place. If they need to pawn jewelry from relatives the relatives will make sure they don’t run off. If they need to put the title to the family home, the family will look after them. If they rent a bond from a bail bondsman- the bail bondsman will make sure they show up to court.
I don’t believe I said that the two were correlated- these were just two of the policies created by Democrats that create lawlessness. Do you agree that not arresting someone for stealing less that $1,000 at a time will do little to discourage them from stealing over and over again? Do you agree that allowing violent people to be released the same day without having to post bail will do little to discourage them from being violent again? This is what’s creating lawlessness regardless of whether there’s a correlation between them.
4) I’m glad you agreed with me on this once we got down to what we were disputing about.
5) Just because it’s helping some people get coverage doesn’t mean that it’s working, that it can sustain itself or that it’s not detrimental to other people. I can probably mention a few things that Former President Trump created that are helping others (probably you as well) but you’d still consider a failure and vote for it to be repealed.
I have a Rov but I don’t agree with his political views (he’s too right wing for me) but I do follow the guidance of two of my Rosh Hayeshiva (they are both on the Moetzes). My Rov considers liberalism to be a sickness and feels that they are working to destroy the moral fabric of society. For the most part I look at Liberals as genuine people who have their heart in the right place but their brains in the wrong place. They’ll go out of their way and do anything to make people happy- but that includes allowing them to kill their unborn babies if it’ll make them happy and call their relationship with their significant other a “marriage” regardless of whether it fits in with the definition of marriage or not. These naïve people (who impress me with the love, care and dedication that they show their kids in the park) don’t realize that these views end up allowing perverts to follow their young daughters into the girls locker rooms because they “identify” as a female.
The Roshei Hayeshiva, as far as I know, never said that it’s assur to vote Democrat- they provide guidance on how a Frum Yid should vote in each election.
Do you mind if I ask if you consult a Rov before voting Democrat?
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