Someone who 'doesn't want' to get married?

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  • #601819
    adams
    Participant

    What do you say to young woman who doesn’t want to date because she doesn’t want to get married? depends on age, matter of hashkafa that is, marriage and family are more important than if one ‘feels like it’?

    By waiting, does a girl minimize her chances of meeting someone based on ‘the good ones will be taken’

    I am groping in the dark here and would value your opinions.

    #849852
    oomis
    Participant

    How old is she, 19 or 29? If the former, leave her alone, and she will date when she is ready. If the latter, then you need to assess why she doesn’t want to get married (i.e., has she lived through a bad parental role model of their marriage). For a frum girl, that is a very unusual way to feel at that point in her life.

    Shidduchim are ALWAYS a gamble, and the longer one waits (again, if older, and not 19 or 20), the harder it will be later on. No one should be pushed into doing what they don’t want to do if they are not yet ready and they are very young. It just causes resentment.

    #849853
    sam4321
    Participant

    One should never give up. If it is out of preference there really is no option a woman also has to get married.

    #849854
    yitayningwut
    Participant

    By waiting, does a girl minimize her chances of meeting someone based on ‘the good ones will be taken’

    I would guess so. But that is not enough of a reason to push someone to get married. If someone doesn’t want to get married, they probably shouldn’t.

    Why doesn’t she want to get married? Either you are close enough to her to know the answer or you aren’t. If you aren’t, I would say it probably isn’t your job or business to further involve yourself. If you know the answer, well, what is it?

    #849855
    dvorak
    Member

    Marriage and family are more important than pursuing a career or traveling the world. But if she’s not emotionally ready for marriage, then don’t say anything to push her- good for her for realizing where she’s at and not jumping into marriage like everyone else. To get married when one isn’t ready is unfair to everyone involved- including the spouse and any children that come about.

    #849856
    Panthers
    Member

    but what if one says continuously to give them time but that doesnt seem to do the trick?

    people dont keep getting youger?

    #849857
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    very well put oomis

    #849858
    gematria
    Member

    there is an underlying issue here,to keep on hounding her will only make things worse, she needs someone to discuss her issue with. somehow a therapist should be suggested to her so she can feel comfortable discussing her fears etc i DO NOT recommend this should come from a parent maybe a sibling or a close friend of hers,

    but one should never assume anything, she must be going through a lot nothing is black and white.

    #849859
    computer777
    Member

    A woman is not required to marry.

    #849860
    ED IT OR
    Participant

    maybe you should set up a shidduch with a boy who does not want to get married

    #849861
    sam4321
    Participant

    Computer777: See Shulchan Aruch EH 1:13.

    #849862
    WIY
    Member

    crazybrit

    LOL

    #849863
    rubberbands
    Member

    It’s important for her to see healthy marriages and happy couples and experience all the positive aspects of married life…Instead of explaining what marriage is show her a beautiful happy married couple!!

    She might be hearing/or experienced the negatives and unhealthy marriages or even divorces that have influenced her outlook…

    A typical 19-20 yr old is excited to date and get married..so you might want to find out what caused the “no I don’t want to get married outlook”. Good luck!!

    #849864
    oomis
    Participant

    Thanks, Coffee Addict.

    #849865
    skiaddict
    Member

    I totally understand this girl i feel the same way sometimes, but for me, i dont know if the same for her, i know the reason comes from too much exposure and thinking like the non jewish world, where ppl dont want to commit, and its easy to think that one would have a much easier and more fun life without being tied down to a husband and children, and all the responsibilities it brings, and the fact that u are not free to do wat u want and have fun in the same way u did wen u were single.

    Looking from a secular viewpoint, which is what a lot of frum young ppl do whether u admit it or not, married life is totally not worth it, it feels like were wasting our young and best years, being married, and unable to party and have fun.

    Obviously having fun in a wrong way, but thats not the point.

    I dont know if this is the reason for the girl u are talking about, but if it is, and im sure there is some of that mixed in, what helps me is going to shiurim, reading english seforim by rabbis, and listening to real jewish music, basically trying to immerse myself in jewishness and then it helps you see the truth, but its hard.

    Anyway all im saying is that its normal, and all you can do is try to inspire her with yidishkeit, and talk to her on a deep level etc.. I hope im making sense..

    #849866
    agittayid
    Participant

    “By waiting, does a girl minimize her chances of meeting someone based on ‘the good ones will be taken..”

    I don’t know about that. Someone may look like a “good catch” but only time will tell whether they truly were a good catch.

    #849867
    Sam2
    Participant

    I’m not looking to get married right now. Sounds like a perfect match. :S

    #849868
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Should see a therapist. /thread

    #849869
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Smart Lady. Wait until the right one comes along, and then you will want to marry him.

    #849870
    Health
    Participant

    adams – And I don’t want to keep Kosher!

    If this person is Frum -then they have to get married whether they want to or not. It’s a Halacha. If they aren’t Frum -so who cares?

    #849871
    BTGuy
    Participant

    Hi adam.

    I agree with PBA.

    It may be something as simple as they enjoy life at home and dont want to take on the responsibility of keeping a home and having a family right now.

    It could be something more such as strong anxiety about self image and meeting a boy to date, or other similar reasons stated on this thread.

    #849873
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    If this person is Frum -then they have to get married whether they want to or not. It’s a Halacha. If they aren’t Frum -so who cares?

    I hope you practice what you preach, even if it isn’t totally correct halachicly. She can wait for the right one, like Benos Tzelafchad (who were praised for not marrying less than 40, since their motives were good). If she says she never wants to get married and means it, that would be an issue.

    #849874
    Health
    Participant

    GAW -“I hope you practice what you preach, even if it isn’t totally correct halachicly. She can wait for the right one, like Benos Tzelafchad (who were praised for not marrying less than 40, since their motives were good).”

    I wrote in my topic of “Who wants to be a Tzadeikes like Rus” -you can wait up to a point. Nowadays that point would be sometime in their twenties. There is No Raya from Bnos Tzelofchod because they had an opposing Mitzva -so there had to be a compromise. What Mitzva does a regular girl have which would be in opposition to the Chiyuv of getting married?

    #849875
    Sam2
    Participant

    Health: What Chiyuv does a girl have to get married? Also, if she doesn’t find the right one then are you saying that she should just marry someone anyway?

    #849876
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    What Mitzva does a regular girl have which would be in opposition to the Chiyuv of getting married?

    Waiting for the right one.

    IIRC you have mentioned you are divorced. Why do you not pick the first girl out there as well?

    #849877
    artchill
    Participant

    It sounds like she is terrified of what she can potentially get into.

    The girl has a point!

    An entire serialized book was written recently by a magazine which certainly doesn’t make marriage very appealing. If more articles and stories are written portraying what a healthy marriage looks like (Doorways in Binah) perhaps some of her fears will be alleviated.

    #849878
    adams
    Participant

    the age is early 20’s. sorry i was off for some time. Thanks for all help, I will look at that book as well. It is anxiety i think and also the strong home life as well.

    reasons I cant get more than just don’t want to , not ready,

    in the future yes.

    My issue is, is it right to have a 1 date with a bochur to see

    if it does feel right?

    #849879
    Sam2
    Participant

    Adams: What else is the purpose of a date? What’s wrong with that?

    #849880
    rubberbands
    Member

    Let her first see some positive happy marrieds, because the men I know only dated girls who were excited to date them and in the frum world we date for marriage (opposed to the secular, just friends, casual dating).

    Have her talk it out, visit stable families, see real caring, loving and secure couples.

    I would say wait it out with a month of working out her issues and then let her date she might end up really liking a guy–but she has to know to date for marriage!

    I guess I’m trying to protect the guys because they might like her (which is very likely) and she wont commit!

    #849881
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Adams: What else is the purpose of a date? What’s wrong with that?

    Normally, of course, you’re right. in this case, however, it’s very legitimate to question whether or not it’s fair to the boy to have him invest time, money, and emotional strength into a girl who might not even want to get married.

    #849882
    Think first
    Member

    If a girl really insists that she doesn’t want to get married I wouldn’t push her. There may be a real reason why she feels she can’t be married and she may be right. It should be explored. In the frum world there are things considered taboo but are reality none the less although not so clear to oneself due to our lifestyle. I know a girl that got married and wasn’t capable of it. Guess what happened?

    #849883
    cherrybim
    Participant

    “If this person is Frum -then they have to get married whether they want to or not. It’s a Halacha.”

    There is no chiyuv for a female to marry.

    #849884
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    I have a further question – what if the person’s an older single? I mean, not that they don’t want to get married, but are they supposed to live out their entire life looking for a shidduch? Is there ever a point where they can say, “I’m too old and I need to start living my life already, whether or not I ever get married”?

    #849885
    oomis
    Participant

    What Mitzva does a regular girl have which would be in opposition to the Chiyuv of getting married?”

    Check your halachic facts first. Only GUYS have a chiyuv to get married. And no one should get married whether they want to or not. That’s unfair to the unsuspecting spouse who is marrying them in good faith.

    Just because the girl is not ready YET, does not automatically mean she NEVER wants to get married. Lots of girls are disillusioned by what they see. Their friends get married young, get tied down with kids AND supporting their husbands, and they just want to live their lives a bit before taking on these responsibilities. And maybe they don’t buy into the husband sitting and learning idea, but are afraid they will be censured for expressing their feelings. Maybe they are just NOT READY. Leave the girl alone for now. If you can get her to talk about why she is opposed to it for now, you might learn something important.

    I had an acquaintance who for some reason confided in me that though she somewhat liked her chosson, she did not love him when she married him (though after the wedding she eventually came to love him). She felt guilty NOT about her feelings, but for having pretended to act and feel all the ways a kallah supposedly feels, according to her observation of her friends.

    When she got together with her friends, she would “fake” giggle with them as they asked her about this or that, related to her chosson. She oohed and aahhhed over the things she got at her shower, and played the shower games as she had watched her friends play them before her. But it was all an act. She was not ready to be getting married, and felt none of the things she had expected to feel when contemplating marriage. Nonetheless, she talked herself into thinking she really wanted to get married, and her chosson was a nice enough guy. Had her family and friends not all been subtly pressuring her in different ways to be a kallah, she would never have gotten engaged at that point in time, though she has no real regrets after the fact. I found her confession made me sad.

    #849886
    Health
    Participant

    GAW – “Waiting for the right one.”

    Sorry, I agree you could wait a little bit, but for how loooong?

    They are supposed to get married at 12. They wait to 18 for maturity. Some will wait for a college degree till 22 or a little older. That’s why I posted -“Nowadays that point would be sometime in their twenties.”

    “IIRC you have mentioned you are divorced. Why do you not pick the first girl out there as well?”

    And who says I wouldn’t????

    #849887
    Health
    Participant

    Sam2 -“Health: What Chiyuv does a girl have to get married?”

    S’A Paskens there is a Chiyuv!

    “Also, if she doesn’t find the right one then are you saying that she should just marry someone anyway?”

    Eventually they have to. As long as the person meets the criteria defined in S’A!

    #849888
    Health
    Participant

    cherrybim -“There is no chiyuv for a female to marry.”

    oomis1105 -“Check your halachic facts first. Only GUYS have a chiyuv to get married.”

    Halacha News Flash:

    Check your facts – Women have a Chiyuv to get married!

    I discuss the Halacha in detail in the topic I started called -“Who wants to be a Tzadeikes like Rus?”.

    #849889
    cherrybim
    Participant

    There is no chiyuv for a female to marry.

    #849890
    yichusdik
    Participant

    Health says “if they aren’t frum, who cares?”…

    sums up the weakness of too large a proportion of the chareidi velt. The gemoro tells us kol yisroel areivim ze bazeh.It didn’t specify only the frum. I won’t give you personal stories of meeting gedolim like Rav Noach Weinberg ztl or the Lubavitcher Rebbe ztl or the alter Bobover Rebbe ztl, and talking about their committment to every single Jew. I will tell you that where i live, there is a large, strong chareidi community. Every element of that community, from the Gerer, Bobover, Lubavitcher and other chassidishe shteeblach, to the multiplicity of kollels and litvishe yeshivos, to the MO kehilos, as well as the Agudas Yisroel and others and hundreds if not thousands of balabatim and their wives and their families are involved in the strong arms of the kiruv movement for children, teens, singles and families. There is no element of the frum-chareidi part of the kehilo that takes your attitude of “who cares”. Boruch Hashem.

    And now I understand your posts and your perspective on a whole range of issues much better.

    #849891
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    “IIRC you have mentioned you are divorced. Why do you not pick the first girl out there as well?”

    And who says I wouldn’t????

    OK, why haven’t you done so?

    Sorry, I agree you could wait a little bit, but for how loooong? They are supposed to get married at 12. They wait to 18 for maturity. Some will wait for a college degree till 22 or a little older. That’s why I posted -“Nowadays that point would be sometime in their twenties.”

    As long as their Rov tells them not to settle.

    #849892
    Health
    Participant

    cherrybim -“There is no chiyuv for a female to marry.”

    I think you posted this already. I’ll repeat also:

    S’A argues on you and says there is a Chiyuv!

    (S’A -stands for Shulchan Aruch -this is our code of laws for those that believe in Torah and Halacha!)

    #849893
    Health
    Participant

    GAW -“OK, why haven’t you done so?”

    Oh – you got me here on this one. Now let me think -Ok I got it – because I don’t believe in a shotgun wedding.

    “As long as their Rov tells them not to settle.”

    Well if the Rov is telling them not to settle in their twenties -Ok. If the Rov is telling them not to settle in their thirties -Ok in very extenuating circumstances. If they hit 40 already, unless there are other issues besides settling, and the Rov still says not to settle, then IMHO he is Oiver L’fnei Michshol!

    #849894
    netazar
    Participant

    health- “lifnei michshol”? Do you mean “lifnei iver”?

    #849895
    Health
    Participant

    yichusdik -“Health says “if they aren’t frum, who cares?”…”And now I understand your posts and your perspective on a whole range of issues much better.”

    Actually, you probably haven’t read too many of my posts -I’ve been very open about my Shittos all the time!

    “sums up the weakness of too large a proportion of the chareidi velt. The gemoro tells us kol yisroel areivim ze bazeh.It didn’t specify only the frum.”

    What you call weakness – I call Halacha! It actually does only apply to Frum Jews. But to know this – you have had to learn a lot. Halacha says many places that Not-Frum Jews aren’t considered part of Klal Yisroel. I’ve discussed this many times here in the CR. I’ve posted there is No Chiyuv to make anybody Frum and even by Tinok Shenishbas it’s only an Inyan (or Mitzva), No Chiyuv, to be Mekarev them! (See Rambam.)

    #849896
    Health
    Participant

    netazar -“health- “lifnei michshol”? Do you mean “lifnei iver”?”

    I stand corrected. Thanks.

    #849897
    matsav20
    Member

    i think she is not ready yet. she didn’t say she NEVER want to get marry…so speak with her, try to know why,… perhaps in few months she would want …

    i have a friend on their 21’s and she “doesn’t want to get married now”. Sometimes she wants, sometimes no. She is not really ready. she always says “i’m young” , she want to finish her studies before…

    Sometimes she had shiduch proposition, but she say NO, sometimes she say “not now” , “not him” , “i don’t feel this shiduch..so NO” …

    Finally she didn’t date even 1 time…she is already 21’s, frum girl…and a lot of her friends & cousins get married even younger…but she is ok with that , she wants to live her life before wedding, go out with her friends …

    Another friend said us before the yomim tovim (1 week before) , when we spoke about shiduchim & marriage , she doesn’t want now, she had time ( she was 19) , she is young… and 3days after succos, she was engaged … she told us , when we spoke she didn’t want to start shiduchim , but 1 week later she had an interresting proposition and she decided to start to date…Now , she will marry in less than 2 week…

    #849898
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    GAW -“OK, why haven’t you done so?”

    Oh – you got me here on this one. Now let me think -Ok I got it – because I don’t believe in a shotgun wedding.

    Why not? Mitzva Ba’ah LYadcha Al T’Acher! Al Tomar Ephne V’Eshne Shema Lo Tipane!

    “As long as their Rov tells them not to settle.”

    Well if the Rov is telling them not to settle in their twenties -Ok. If the Rov is telling them not to settle in their thirties -Ok in very extenuating circumstances. If they hit 40 already, unless there are other issues besides settling, and the Rov still says not to settle, then IMHO he is Oiver L’fnei Michshol!

    IMHO of a divorced guy vs. their own Rov. ’nuff said.

    #849899
    cherrybim
    Participant

    “S’A argues on you and says there is a Chiyuv!”

    Fine, so where is that again?

    #849900
    Health
    Participant

    GAW -“Why not? Mitzva Ba’ah LYadcha Al T’Acher! Al Tomar Ephne V’Eshne Shema Lo Tipane!”

    Ok your opinion is – there is nothing wrong with a shotgun wedding?!?!?!

    You seem to be the only one with this opinion!

    “IMHO of a divorced guy vs. their own Rov. ’nuff said.”

    You posted to me, not to a Rov -so I gave you My opinion. Noone told you to take it over a Rov’s opinion. If you wanted a Rov’s opinion -you should have asked one! This is My opinion! Makes No difference to me whether you take it or not!

    ‘Nuff said!!!!!!!!

    #849901
    Health
    Participant

    cherrybim -“Fine, so where is that again?”

    I discuss the Halacha in detail in the topic I started called -“Who wants to be a Tzadeikes like Rus?”. You should find it there.

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