Stop the trend of post going to Brisk and its proxies
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- This topic has 75 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 3 months, 3 weeks ago by AviraDeArah.
January 31, 2023 11:18 am at 11:18 am #2161159
To several posters
RAY regardless of his greatness has been known colloquially as AJ for as long as he’s been RY or even longer, by supporters and detractors.
No Brisker ever ate machine matzos on Pesach.
“Bikoires” is very popular among frum Jews, chassidim and litvishe equally. I’m not saying it’s a good thing but YWN CR wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t.
That’s all for now.January 31, 2023 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #2161193ujmParticipant
Pekak: RJBS was called by his rabbinic colleagues in YU as “JB” both directly when speaking to him and when referring to him.February 1, 2023 11:31 am at 11:31 am #2161546LerntminTayrahParticipant
Pekak, the Ashkenazi rav of Sterling Forest in Lakewood eats machine shmurah matzah as a Brisker. He is not the only one. I know followers of Rav Aharon Soloveitchik zt”l from America who do the same.
Yes, Brisk in general is taking over the yeshiva world, the way Lakewood did. Most smaller yeshivos have lost their shtempl to either Lakewood or Brisk, and no longer have their own mesorah.
In Torah Vodaas, Rabbi Lichtenstein allows those who want to skip secular studies to skip them. Torah Vodaas kicked out the malochim in 1933 for refusing to go to secular studies classes.
(Not that he’s “real” Brisk but he has the frum hanhagos)
My frum cousin referred to Briskers as the shtoltz of Lakewood. Another cousin who went to AY told me he learned how to really read a piece of Gemara in AY, which was something he was lacking. So clearly there’s what to be said for the Brisker derech.
That said, most are still noiheg to fast on fast days, not like Briskers and chassidish women.February 1, 2023 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #2161646
You still did not elaborate how Brisk delays bachurim from starting to date.February 1, 2023 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #2161657
lernt, that’s nothing new in torah vodaas. Rav Belsky used to fight with parents often when their children wanted to leave secular studies in 10th, 11th grade. Rav Belsky had unique hashkofos in secular studies: he encouraged some to go to college, most not to, and most to stay in high school regents. A select few who were outstanding in their desire to learn the entire day, which they demonstrated beforehand, he supported them not staying in secular studies classes in high school.February 1, 2023 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #2161683
When people refer to Brisk nowadays, they mean the branch of The Brisker Rov aka Moron HaGRI”Z Haleivi.
I don’t know who the Ashkenaz Rov of Sterling Forest is. However, if he eats Machine Shmura Matza it doesn’t matter how many yea5he learned in Brisk, he’s not a Brisker. A Brisker does things the way The Brisker Rov and his children and grandchildren did and continue to do. It’s not just a derech halimud, it’s a way of life.February 1, 2023 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #2161684
Rav Yitzchok Lichtenstein Shlita is an actual Brisker, having absorbed the Brisker Derech under the tutelage of his grandfather’s cousin Rav Meshulam Dovid.
The malochim were kicked out of Torah Vodaas for several reasons, the discussion isn’t relative to this thread. However, the main Rabbi who was matir the expulsion is infamous for having left over his grandson Dr. Norman Lamm for America to deal with.February 1, 2023 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #2161692
I did that in earlier posts which you decided is only .oooosomething of society.
I myself learned there many years ago and boys waited over a year to get into shiur and it was the norm to come to BMG at age 24 and then get stuck in the freezer….
I have sons that age now who are hoping to go to Brisk (because if you don’t you are just “nisht”) and they tell me their respective Rosh Yeshivos only put 4th year bachurim on the reshima and even than they are backed up with talmidim in E”Y who are waiting to get in and are in the “waiting places” (sounds to me like a a bus station platform. lol).
And then they need to wait at least a year to get into Reb Yankel or Chaim ben RAY shiur. It seems RAY shiur itself is out of style or maybe min 2 year wait.
So as you said my math isn’t the greatest so please make your own cheshbon with or without a caculator.February 1, 2023 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #2161700
I would like to argue on some of your assumptions. You stated that many Bachurim gain tremendosly from learning in Brisk type yeshivos. This may be true of Rav Tzvi Kaplan but the rest are usually boys coming from very high caliber intense American yeshivos that have all the Brisker yeshivos have to offer minus the hefkeirus.
As I said it wasn’t like that 20 plus years ago but today most of those Roshey Yeshiva are themselves talmidim of Brisk and give over the full 9 yards plus a strong mussar regimen which they usually picked up in BMG.
From your previous post I am deducing (correct me if I am off) that you didn’t go thru the run of the mill American yeshiveshe system and picked up your frumkeit in E”Y. also you aren’t yet the age having boys in the yeshivos gedolos. So I fully understand why you don’t have a full grasp on the current matzav.
Please don’t take this as an attack of any sort. Just realizing we are coming from different experiences and different age brackets.February 1, 2023 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #2161742
Pekak – rav Lichtenstein is not the only brisker in torah vodaas…mori verabi rav savitsky has been rosh yeshiva since 1991.February 1, 2023 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #2161753
You mentioned earlier about essays from Rav Shapiro.
Which Rav Shapiro is this? I would love to see them. how can I get ahold of them?February 2, 2023 7:47 am at 7:47 am #2161847
American, I’m referring to rav yaakov shapiro, who was among the only talmidei chachamim online in the late 90s and early 2000s. Both ujm and i are into his writings, with him often quoting him word for word. Rav shapiro is also the author of the encyclopedic the empty wagon – you can reach him by email, which is in the sefer, or on his podcasts online.
The rest of the essays are on the frumteens archives, some of which are on old blogs and others are on jewswithquestions, a short lived update to frumteens.
Rav Shapiro is very close to rav elya ber, who guided him in frumteens and his other activities, including his anti-Zionist writings and protests.February 2, 2023 7:48 am at 7:48 am #2161848
American, just to clarify, i got into Torah judaism when i was in high school, around 16 years old. I was in an MO school, and my newfound knowledge and observances cost me my entire circle of girlfriend -having, TV watching friends, as well as my shul – i changed shuls, the rov of which directed me to my Yeshiva, where i spent 13 years sitting and learning, minus eretz yisroel and a brief stint in a different Yeshiva.February 2, 2023 7:51 am at 7:51 am #2161851
You are right, however, that I’m in-between having been eretz yisroel age and having children of my own who are old enough; i knew all about EY yeshivos 7 years ago; now, i don’t, because all of my friends live in the states, and i haven’t kept up much with the people i know by rav tzvi who are still in the yeshivah, at least not enough to get an idea of what the landscape is like.
Which is why i stayed out of the conversation about the yeshivos that i was not familiar with. In my days, there were a few years when people were flocking to rav meir and rav dovid, then there was a time that rav sholom was the place to go… My Yeshiva didn’t have any reshimos for Brisk, because it allows college, but if you really really wanted to go (and only one guy did) the rosh Yeshiva had more than enough pull to get someone in
and the guys who wanted to be subjected to strict mussar, discipline and de-anericanizing went to rav tzvi. Granted they weren’t modern, just the daas baalei batim sort of thing that’s hard to shake for some people. Rav tzvi did actually have some guys from some slightly modern yeshivos, if you can call them modern at all, like yesodei.February 2, 2023 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2161994
Those who stay in EY longer because they did not get into shiur, is tiny minority. This does not apply to most groups of bachurim. As in, those who stay in America, learn in Israeli yeshivos, head to the Mir, Reb Tzvi, or really any place besides Brisk. Is Brisk even one percent of all yeshiva bachurim over twenty one? Now subtract all those that get into shiur within a year, as well as those that are not there for shiur. Also consider those that change their plans and come back or move on. additionally, those that are in Brisk for life are eligible to marry into Israeli Brisker families. So they don’t all affect the American Shidduchim scene. Besides for the serious guys who are not going to stop learning to close to twenty five to date no matter what yeshiva they are in.February 2, 2023 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2161995
Is this about your boys specifically, or today’s generation?February 2, 2023 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2161997
It seems like in your days learning Kodshim meant getting to Lakewood older. It’s not really like that anymore. Bachurim go to Reb Tzvi and Reb Sholom at twenty. And are in BMG at 22-23. If some learn longer, kol hakovod to to them!February 2, 2023 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2162000
The hefkeirus comes from being more independent and mature. It’s called post-adolescent.
BMG has a strong mussar regimen?!?
That out of the way, I think your right that there is more to gain by staying by the American Rosh Yeshiva for five years instead of learning in Israel.February 2, 2023 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2162001
Those articles did not raise the bar on the online popularity drivel masquerading as authentic Torah. It’s just a different genre.February 2, 2023 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #2162048
Kudos to you Avira
Chazak vematz! And lots of continued hatzlocho in your avodas hakodesh. I too am in the chinuch field and know of it’s challenges. And ty for the referances to Rav Shapiro.
And to you NoM I rest my case. And no its not about my boys only. They are each in different yeshivos each yeshiva numbering 100 plus and it seems that this is the trend. But i made my case. Take it or leave it.February 2, 2023 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #2162055LerntminTayrahParticipant
A lot of internet Torah comes from inshi deloi maali, it’s why you need an echte rebbe for hadracha. Same with the yeshivishe reid about farshidine yeshivos, darf men hubbn a rebbe for hadracha. Brisk isn’t for yeder einer, and don’t just pick a yeshiva because yenem went.
Most yeshivishe reid is lo nitein lehikaseiv and won’t up up in the CR.February 3, 2023 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #2162291
It seems that you are blowing up your case. Being in Brisk without getting into shiur is not relevant to other yeshivos.February 3, 2023 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #2162312
Lernt, very cuteFebruary 5, 2023 9:02 am at 9:02 am #2162546
Rav Savitzky wasn’t there in 5751. He was brought in after the petirah of Rav Reuven Fein ZTZVK’L who was niftar Sivan/Tamuz 5753.February 5, 2023 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #2162604
Pekak, I’m pretty sure he came when rav fein stopped giving shiur. I could be wrong, but I’ve heard 1991 a lot of times.February 5, 2023 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #2162663
Lernt, not only is it not in the CR, it’s not in shiurim/articles online either, for the most part, except rav osher arieli; i don’t know any other maggid shiur who says chidushim and high level lomdus which is posted on the internet or kol halashon
Rav Baruch ber would sometimes tell talmidim who wrote over chidushim that they’ve “written too much” – the person learning is supposed to figure out a lot of the idea on their own. There’s so, so much that you learn in a shiur or by talking in learning that you can’t find in a sefer.
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