April 12, 2011 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #596273
Why did I ever raise my voice like a nut case which Mr. X taped and let everyone hear?
Because if you overwork/underappreciate,abuse and sleep-deprive someone relentlessly,you are stretching a rubber band.
And when the person says,I am being stretched more than is humanly acceptable,and you ignore/dismiss/mimimize their pleas….you will cause the person to be sooo overly stretched,that rubber band is going to lose its original elasticity,….and become high-strung and tense.
Remove the sub-human stressors, and voila,the rubber band is once again recognizable.
THE ONLY MEDICATION THAT CURES ABUSE IS GENERAL ANESTESIA.(which I can’t spell,sorry)April 12, 2011 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #759455hanibParticipant
sounds like your ex was one sweet guy. Soroh whatever Radcliffe once wrote an article about crazymakers – they do tons of little things to drive you crazy and then look at you innocently, “why are you nuts?”April 12, 2011 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #759456Chevrah Adas KorachMember
why we talking about specific ppl?April 12, 2011 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #759457
Chevra…Sarah Chana Radcliffe is a popular writer.April 12, 2011 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #759458
Have you ever gone for therapy?April 12, 2011 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #759459
eclipse- your ex sounds like one rotten guy! was he nice in the beginning? i am so scared of falling in like you did!!!!!!!April 12, 2011 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #759460OfcourseMember
eclipse Why did I ever raise my voice like a nut case which Mr. X taped and let everyone hear?
A shame you couldnt video the surrounding circumstance you were put in that brought it on. Almost no one goes nuts and yells and screams for nothing.
The best revenge is when these “sweetie pie innocent” husbands have one spouse after another leave them. And it happens many times. Desperate girls/women fantasize it’ll be different with them, nebach.April 12, 2011 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #759461
Sacrilege,I never ask anyone that question,and I don’t appreciate being asked.Thanks for your concern,though.April 12, 2011 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #759462Chevrah Adas KorachMember
everyone not know who mr x is? getting married TONIGHT??? y talb abt him?April 12, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #759463
Eclips:Sorry you’re felling this way. I hope you’ll be able to put the past behind you soon, as calm, serenity and happiness will overtake you.
No reason to be naive, but I don’t think you should worry yourself too much because of rare stories (where we aren’t aware of all the details).
Ofcourse: I have a lot of respect for your posts. This is one I disagree with. We should attempt to put our adversaries out of mind. “Bnfol ovecha, al tismach”.April 12, 2011 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #759464
eclipse- that question hurt me for you…. if that makes any senseApril 12, 2011 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #759465HAKOL TOVMember
i am surprised at your quesition! totally out of the line!April 12, 2011 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #759466
I asked not to receive a response but for the reason that if you don’t you should consider it. There is no shame in getting help when you need it.April 12, 2011 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #759467
I don’t understand why eveyone is attacking Sacrilege hereApril 12, 2011 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #759468
Sacrilege,I take care of myself.
Chevra…guess what? You got the WRONG PERSON!!
He is not getting married tonight!!April 13, 2011 12:10 am at 12:10 am #759469ShrekMember
Eclipse, it is great that you were able to “bounce back” (going with the rubber band metaphor, here). Sounds like you really went through your own personal Gehenom.
Ever considered writing a book? An article? Anonymously, of course.April 13, 2011 12:16 am at 12:16 am #759470
Eclipse, this is called gaslighting, making the other person act and feel crazy. Its a set up. Forget about it. Try this coaching method. Write it down next to the phone so you will remember it each time he calls. Take two deep breaths before responding to him. While breathing ask yourself “what does he expect me to say” Try answering “I’ll think about it and get back to you” Never give him a response you will regret later. Use non-committal responses such as “interesting, I’ll give that some thought, so that’s what you were thinking, I see what your saying.” Of course you see what he is saying because everything he is saying is for his benefit and that is obvious to you. You know what he is thinking but your response doesn’t give him a clue what you are thinking. Keep him guessing without giving him the response he expects. In other words you are answering him without an answer at all. In a sense that is called double talking. You are stroking his huge ego, he thinks you are agreeing, or at least understanding but you don’t agree to anything and you don’t lose your cool, you just play a game. You tell him you will think about what he said then you either email him or when he calls back let him know that you thought about it and you did not change your mind. In the end you are the winner. You are a clear thinker. You don’t lose your cool, you stay in control, you let him jabber, and you still make your own decisions. How does that sound?April 13, 2011 12:29 am at 12:29 am #759471cshapiroMember
advice a friend gave me when i was going thru a hard time, help others itll make u feel good. i visited people in the hospital who had no visitors, brought them kosher food and stuff…people i barely knew, but at the end of the day i was so zonked but bh helping others really helps….i dont get that same feeling when i send a guy his tax return and he owes $11000April 13, 2011 12:46 am at 12:46 am #759472
Shrek,B”H … I thank Hashem for that!
There will be a book one day,iy”h, but when more has fallen into place.
We want it to be somewhat INSPIRING!April 13, 2011 12:50 am at 12:50 am #759473
aries,we don’t speak much at all.The less the better!
THE TAPES WERE MADE DURING OUR MARRIAGE FOR CLOSE TO 5 YEARS.
But your advice is 100% relevant,and I have actually been advised to watch a very old film called “Gaslighting” for validation!
But it’s so old,I can’t seem to get hold of it.April 13, 2011 1:00 am at 1:00 am #759474
cshapiro…simcha shel mitzvah is one thing NO ONE can take away…I agree!April 13, 2011 1:04 am at 1:04 am #759475
He has tapes and you have memories. Maybe you should write a journal. Never when they are young, but one day when your kids are much, much older and married, they might want to know the truth, especially if their father ever plays the tapes for them, or if he ever tries to use the tapes against you. In addition, putting pen to paper and releasing the memories and pent up feelings, emotions and anger might just be a very therapeutic and productive exercise.April 13, 2011 1:04 am at 1:04 am #759476
Aries,I re-read your post a few times.It’s really terrific advice!Even for children that are nudging about something too much,or a teen.April 13, 2011 1:07 am at 1:07 am #759477bbubbeeParticipant
It is very validating to know that you “ARE FINE” and that most of “His” side was blinded by his sharp talking.
May Hakodosh Boruch Hu enable those involved to be Zoche to the Brocha of “Pokeach Ivrim” their eyes should be opened to the truth, so that you will have Menuchas Nefesh & see only Yiddish Nachas from all of your kids.April 13, 2011 1:26 am at 1:26 am #759478
but one day when your kids are much, much older and married, they might want to know the truth
Do you really really think it’s healthy for a parent to tell their child that the other parent was bad?April 13, 2011 1:30 am at 1:30 am #759479
aries,I was referring to your dialogue post…it’s great.April 13, 2011 2:19 am at 2:19 am #759480
TBT, there is a time and a place for everything. No she should NOT tell her kids anything negative about their father, that will only backfire. But in the future when they can figure things out for themselves and they want to know the truth. She can say she wrote things down in a journal to help get it out of her system and move forward. It is up to them if they choose to read it and know her side of the story.April 13, 2011 2:26 am at 2:26 am #759481
I respectfully disagree with you. If they “figur[ed] out things for themselves”, why would they need their mom to help them along? What can she add?
What does the halochos of slander and rechilus have to say about this?April 13, 2011 3:38 am at 3:38 am #759482
“She can say she wrote things down in a journal to help get it out of her system and move forward. It is up to them if they choose to read it and know her side of the story.”
This is a terrible idea on so many levels.April 13, 2011 4:34 am at 4:34 am #759483
eclipse – That is part of life. The manipulator will always manipulate and the one pushed to the limit might end up looking bad. I was in court yesterday and her lawyer was antagonizing me on the stand -I perhaps didn’t remain as cool and collected as I would have wished. She, when on the stand, wasn’t attacked by my lawyer (because he’s a mentch), acted totally quiet and appeared very earnest. The supposedly orthodox (frum) Judge sided with her. I definitely was a little distressed, but I told myself -Gam zo l’tova. Everything comes from Hashem and anything that happens is his will. We can only better ourselves and at the end of the day -we will be successful in the Final Judgment. It doesn’t really matter what we end up looking like in front of others. They will have to answer for their behavior, just like we will have to. And their position that they had in this world won’t make the least bit of difference -whether they were Court Judges, Dayanim, Rosh Hayeshivos, it won’t matter. Only the truth will matter! I hope this helps a little bit.April 13, 2011 4:57 am at 4:57 am #759484gaslightMember
Eclipse, aries has some great advice. Document everything – write what he said, how you responded, what date and time the conversation was at. Responding “really, huh, oh my, is that so” is a good stalling technique when talking to someone who might be trying to gaslight you. If they’re good enough at it, it still may not help. I was gaslighted by a family member, “A”, in my teens (not in a frum environment). It was flat out verbal, mental, and emotional abuse, but I was made to think it was “all my fault” that I was stupid, worthless, couldn’t do anything right, etc. etc. I really thought I was crazy. It took years of therapy to cope with the constant manipulation, abuse, fear, horrible expletives… the family member who should have protected me, “B”, who I completely trusted and loved, was completely passive and let the abuse take place. Years later, after another family member, “C”, passed away, I found papers among their possessions that detailed “B”s abuse of other family members (physical assault against “C”, threatening physical harm and worse against other relatives). My trust was completely shattered and it was the beginning of the realization that there were other ways that “B” had failed me. Like, maybe I wasn’t crazy after all? For the sake of my own self-preservation, I have little contact with them anymore. It was a rough learning experience to say the least, but if I would have done anything differently, it would have been to speak up sooner, to risk reaching out for help sooner. I was terrified and felt trapped. But I also know that it happened just as Hashem would have it happen, and I understand a lot more now than I did then.
Eclipse, trust your intuition, and document everything. Be very careful what you put on a public forum (no, this is not my original screen name). And daven… hatzlacha…April 13, 2011 5:00 am at 5:00 am #759485gaslightMember
P.S. There are clips of Gaslight on the website that begins with you and ends in tube.April 13, 2011 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #759486
Health: Sounds like a Judge I know.E.M.?
Gaslight: About reaching out sooner,I did,and it didn’t help.April 13, 2011 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #759487
eclipse – No, I live in Lakewood -a NJ Judge.April 13, 2011 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #759488
health- i feel bad for you….sounds horrible to go through something like that! you prob just wanted to shake the judge and tell her to wake up and smell the coffee! sorry for both of youApril 13, 2011 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #759489
So r the judges better in NY or NJ?April 13, 2011 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #759490shlishiMember
s2021, how was your NY judge?April 13, 2011 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #759491
Im asking, shlishi..
and what makes u think I used a NY judge?April 13, 2011 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #759492
Health, you are so right. Hashem is the ultimate score keeper.
TBT, it is up to Eclipse to keep her own records for her own good. If at some point in time there comes a need for the kids to read her journal then Hashem will guide them to it. Don’t be so naive. There are many cases where one spouse has the kids so brainwashed that they don’t know the truth for most of their lives and the other spouse says nothing. But children do need to respect both parents and do have a need to know the truth. If the time comes, Hashem will guide them to the truth.April 13, 2011 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #759493
“So r the judges better in NY or NJ?”
I would assume they are both about the same. Both states are very liberal and have very liberal Judges!
I just thought someone who is supposedly “frum” would act different than the rest, if it wasn’t clear that his judgement would be illegal!April 13, 2011 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #759494
Health and Eclipse- My heart goes out to both of you and I would like to ask my original question again- what would you tell someone to look out for when dating so they dont fall in like you both did?!?!?!April 13, 2011 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #759495shlishiMember
A Jewish (i.e. frum) person is prohibited from “judging” two Jewish parties in accordance with non-Jewish law.April 13, 2011 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #759496
adorable- as long as u have proper guidance while ur dating someone I dont think u need to worry.April 13, 2011 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #759497
adorable: I beg you, please, discuss with a mentor, teacher, Rav etc. Online posters are online posters. You and I are only hearing one side of the story. We should definitely empathize with those in pain. But, we should not base important life decisions on their version of events.April 13, 2011 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #759498
Aries: You may call me naive. You may even go the route of calling me a mechutsaf. Fine. However, you are not advising her well.
Why was his father always silent? His father wanted him to at least have a mother, without any resentment or upset-ness. He should at least have his mother to love, worry-free.
Eclips, or anyone in such a situation, should not allow the other one to make the rules of the game. They should seek to always be the tzadik/tzidekes, period. Of course humans fall through at times. That, though, should not be the rule. She should follow her own rules of darchei noam.April 14, 2011 1:00 am at 1:00 am #759499MindOverChatterParticipant
TBT: Very well said. I fully agree with you. I personally witnessed some cases similar to that of your friends’.
Eclipse: I think you can write a journal to give off steam and to calm your nerves, but I’d advise you not to show it to your kids, for the reasons TBT stated above. (I think you should ask a rav.)April 14, 2011 3:05 am at 3:05 am #759500
She didn’t say show it to them now. But TBT is what all the shrinks say -Don’t badmouth the other parent to your kids. Some do it anyway and the kids turn out fine, but it doesn’t make it right.April 14, 2011 3:11 am at 3:11 am #759501
“what would you tell someone to look out for when dating so they dont fall in like you both did?!?!?!”
Only deal with honest people. My Shadchan, even though a relative, told half-truths.April 14, 2011 3:12 am at 3:12 am #759502chayav inish livisumayParticipant
i totally agree with tbt!! how is it fair to your ex, even if he was the biggest rasha in the world, but its not fair to turn his own children against him. imagine how you would feel if your ex turned your OWN kids against you!April 14, 2011 3:29 am at 3:29 am #759503
I just googled “gaslighting” which led me to a term “Ambient Abuse” which I’d never heard of…same as /similar to gaslighting. Are you familiar with that term?
Honestly,the guy was describing almost word for word a lot of the kind of stuff I experienced,NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH was being misjudged by everyone since the ambient abuser’s abuse is not often APPARENT to others.
Wow,that was validating!!
Thank you Hashem for taking me away from that…forever!!
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