October 19, 2009 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #667703haifagirlParticipant
I haven’t seen any flirting going on. Maybe if someone would tell me which forum it’s in I could find it.October 19, 2009 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #667704noitallmrParticipant
Wow bemused you literally took the words outa my mouth…Well doneOctober 19, 2009 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #667705NY MomMember
Bemused: Listen, I am not saying that there is no difference between friendly and flirting. Yes, there are times when friendly can become flirting. And of course that kind of behavior is inappropriate and dangerous. But you are saying that people in the CR are crossing the line. All I am saying is that I have not seen that here in the CR myself. And apparently there are other people, like haifagirl, who agree with me.
I don’t engage in the real-life scenarios which you have described above. And my husband and I do not go out with other couples. But then again, if my husband has a friend over, I will speak to him. And I may even make a joke. I just make sure that I never get even close to the line, let alone cross over it. I make sure never to give anyone the wrong impression.
A lot of people make this mistake, and think the internet gives carte blanche for all things considered highly inappropriate for their own everyday behavior, so long at it is “anonymous”. As long as someone has identified themselves by gender (sorry haifagirl :)) either through screen name or through blog content, the scenario is not far from the one I painted in your kitchen. There are real live people behind each screen name.
There is a some comparison, but the CR is so far removed from what you are describing! You can’t make eye contact with a person. You can’t smile at another person. You can’t see the other person. You have no idea what the other person looks like or even if the other person is really female or male. The CR is just words on a computer screen. There is no way to even get into contact with another person outside of the computer screen even if you wanted to. That is what the moderation is all about!
If you feel that there has been a breach of tznius here in the CR, then you should point it out to the moderators or the editor. Bring the specific instance and participators to their attention in an email.
For my own personal clarification, I will have to ask my Rav about this one.October 19, 2009 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #667706Mezonos MavenMember
It seems a whole lot worse than the email addresses I’ve seen. I just saw a whole thread in the cr on twitter with posters trading their twitter addresses and talking about the contacts they made from the cr. Just when I thought it couldn’t be any worse…October 19, 2009 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #667707
“The CR is just words on a computer screen.”
That’s the mistake I think is being made here. However, everyone should assess the situation using their own standards and yardstick and act accordingly.October 20, 2009 5:10 am at 5:10 am #667708JaxMember
If you think you are too Holy for the CR, no one is forcing you to be here!
stop posting if you have an issue!
the end of my big drasha!October 20, 2009 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #667709
I think that’s a little rude. Some of us are careful regarding which threads we participate in, and how we participate in them. Some of us who are careful about the above sometimes make mistakes, and are happy for reminders.
Here’s a revision on your comment: “If you think you are too above-board for this thread, no one is forcing you to be here! Don’t post on this thread if you have an issue! That’s the end of my non-drasha.”
Sorry for the sarcasm; I am rarely like this. But I think your comment was way, way out of line. If you think you are beyond reproach in the area of your interaction with females, then I envy you. Stay out of any threads that discuss self-improvement in this area. For some of us mortals, we think it is important.November 12, 2009 4:19 am at 4:19 am #667710bein_hasdorimParticipant
I can’t believe I missed this thread! I agree with jax. It’s kind of hypocritical
to sit here doing something you claim is problematic while actually doing so.
I would like to ask how it’s is even shayich to flirt in the CR. The main point of al tarbeh siycha im Haishao, is because of what it will lead to. In live interaction with people things tend to build and one thing leads to another. This is a serious problem.
chatting with someone in the CR, is not building, or going anywhere.
When talking for real, the person says his comment appropriate or not and it’s gone.
He gambles to accept the results if it was appreciated, or not.
Here in the CR it is
1)Cut by our wonderful moderators,
2)known that the comment is written in text & will not disappear after one writes it.
This keeps one further in check to consider ones words.
I have never seen any flirting going on here.
some person says a joke, gets an lol! that’s it. or maybe a wink ;-).
Thats it. The guy in the pizza shop near me,
either gives winks to all the women shoppers, or has a serious twitching disorder.
So It’s assur to go buy pizza?
One can never even meet anyone, or give personal info, even l’sheim mitzvah in the CR,
for it is not tolerated, and for good reason. After mentioning all this I conclude,
as my friend jax so eloquently put it.. stop posting if you have an issue!November 12, 2009 5:46 am at 5:46 am #667711
“It’s kind of hypocritical
to sit here doing something you claim is problematic while actually doing so.”
I try not to interact here in a way that is not tznius, so I don’t have a problem posting on this site. may make mistakes sometimes, and this thread was a good reminder for me.
NO ONE said posting in the YW CR is “problematic. Some posters called attention to THE WAY some dialogue was going in some threads.
It’s not “eloquent” to tell someone to stop posting; it’s simply rude. If someone doesn’t like a thread, that “someone” should be the one to stop posting on that thread. For a teensy example, if you don’t like the idea that a thread was dedicated to improving the tzius here, why did you continue reading, let alone post? Just wondering. I don’t have anything to add to the cantorial thread; it’s not my cup of tea, so I don’t post. If this thread is not your cup of tea…
I need to add that recently, and I don’t know if it is related to this thread or not, there has been a real turn-around in the tznius department, and there was not a single time in recent weeks or even months that I have been startled at the boy-girl banter here.
YW, I admire your constant efforts to improve this site- it has always been terrific, and keeps getting better!November 12, 2009 5:53 am at 5:53 am #667712oomisParticipant
I have never noticed flirting on this forum; the mods would never let it pass, and someone would be sure to pick up on it and criticize it on the spot, were it to actually escape our eagle-eyed censors. Flirting on an anonymous post is in the eye of the beholder. There is no nuance or any indicator of tone (unless one includes an emoticon of some sort), so I fail to grasp how ANYONE could make such an assumption. We don’t even know for sure what each other’s genders are, we only have it on the word of each poster. haifagirl could easily be a 70 year old guy (I don’t think so, really, but anything is possible), and joseph could just as easily really be Josephine. WE DON’T KNOW for an absolute certainty. So all this talk of flirting is really absurd in my opinion, and those who think it is present here in the CR, are reading into things that are not there.November 12, 2009 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #667713
oomis, some of us thought otherwise, and all are free to think how they do. In any case, there has been more than a marked improvement, closer to a complete turn-around, and I am impressed.
Kol Hakovod to everyone who has been more careful on this issue! It is certainly an inspiration to me to better on this issue myself!November 12, 2009 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #667715NY MomMember
oomis1105: I have always respected your opinion, since the 1st time I read one of your posts (your posts in the child safety thread – I remember that especially due to your unusual SN), so I am happy that we share the same opinion on this. That is very validating and reassuring for me. If you read above, you will see that I also contended that I hadn’t seen any flirting going on in the CR, and made the same points that you just made.November 12, 2009 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #667716jphoneMember
The only ones who could say for certain that “no flirting is going on” are the site moderators. You only see, what they want you to see. For all we know, there is plenty of flirting and 95% of what is submitted, never makes it online (it seems like 95% of the things I write, never make it online either!).November 12, 2009 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #667717
Regardless of personal sentiment, YW has been extremely careful about this in recent months, and I assume posters have as well. If someone hasn’t seen something before, and no difference now, everyone is happy.
For those of us who noticed “something”, especially in the early days, we are happy too.
What a wonderful thing when everyone is happy!November 12, 2009 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #667718YW Moderator-80Member
There is no “flirting” going on that I am aware of.
I would estimate that in general 95% of posts are approved as is, a few are deleted, and a few are edited. Some posters are never deleted or edited. Some posters have a much higher rate of deleted and edited posts.November 12, 2009 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #667719
Mod, the inappropriate interaction (I don’t want to call it flirting) took place before your active modding time. Mostly, it took place in the time that CR action was going on till the wee hours of the morning.
The CR is a different place than before your active modding time (I say active, because for all I know, you could have been involved in YW since its inception 🙂November 12, 2009 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #667720bubbyrMember
Because we are separated by gender so much, I find it refreshing that this is a place where I can see the point of view of both genders, without being “personally” involved.November 12, 2009 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #667721YW Moderator-80Member
Actually it is not so easy to know which poster is which gender. I have seen many wrong assumptions of gender here, sometimes deliberate.November 12, 2009 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #667722JewessMember
How do you flirt with a faceless bodyless being in cyberspace?
EDITEDNovember 12, 2009 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #667723
You mean someone might be presenting as one gender but is really another? That’s a little creepy…November 12, 2009 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #667724
I guess the same way one can flirt with an unknown individual on the phone or via email. Not too difficult.
I really don’t call it flirting here, though, as flirting is deliberate, and this didn’t seem so.November 12, 2009 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #667725jphoneMember
“You mean someone might be presenting as one gender but is really another? That’s a little creepy… “
Its why the biggest concern parents (not just frum parents, but the general population) have with their kids online is not the sites they frequent, but WHO they interact with.November 12, 2009 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #667726YW Moderator-99Member
For all we know, there is plenty of flirting and 95% of what is submitted, never makes it online (it seems like 95% of the things I write, never make it online either!).
Are you a mod or something?
The only thing you can know is your items and the people you know that told you. That may be 95%.
Have you ever heard of projection?
In classical psychology, projection is always seen as a defense mechanism that occurs when a person’s own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else.November 12, 2009 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #667727JewessMember
Bemused, on the phone you hear a person. Via email, you know who you are emailing. If you don’t know who you are emailing, then it’s the same situation as this.
If you are flirting with a screen-name (not you, Bemused, I’m talking in general) then know that you could be flirting with a person who might make you disgusted in real life.
EDITEDNovember 12, 2009 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #667728
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree, Jewess. One nice thing about a forum is the diversity, and this is just further manifestation of such :).November 12, 2009 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #667729cherrybimParticipant
Mr. Moderator, tear down this thread!November 12, 2009 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #667730Y.W. EditorKeymaster
YWN blogger Chaim is a woman!
Brooklyngirl is a man!
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