Tachanun

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  • This topic has 16 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by 147.
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  • #601623
    gubbish
    Participant

    Am i a bad person if i daven at an avel minyan instead of with my yeshiva so i dont have to say tachanun? Which brings me to the question of why don’t we say tachanun in a beis avel? Also, why do Jews in general seem to dislike tachanun more than any other part of tefillah?

    #843515
    Sam2
    Participant

    It’s a Mitzvah Shelo Lishmah. Does that make you a bad person?

    #843516
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I don’t think so, there was a tannas wife that tried to stop her husband from saying tachnun

    #843517
    Sam2
    Participant

    CA: That’s because she knew that if he would successfully say Tachanun that her brother, the Nasi, would die (see the Aruch Hashulchan on that, it’s interesting and makes sense).

    #843518
    not2bright
    Member

    To your last question gubbish that actually reminds me of something one of my rebbeim once said, that goyim have never experienced the true simcha of the Gabai giving a klap on the bima and announcing that there is no tachanun 🙂

    #843519
    gubbish
    Participant

    lol my counselor in camp told me the same thing, but especially when he announces that there is no tachanun on a monday or thursday 🙂

    but no one answered my q. of: y we dont say tachanun in a beis avel?

    #843520
    mexipal
    Participant

    i feel bad for you, you seem pretty desperate not to say tachanun. try to find a shteibel. you can daven late and skip tachanun at the same time

    #843521
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I know that’s the reason sam,

    The reason that is is bc he was in pain so tachnun=pain and people don’t like pain

    #843522
    BasYisroel94
    Participant

    on the subject of tachanun, how come some girls do say tachanun, and some dont? are we supposed to?

    #843523
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    I believe that since, in Tachnun we submit ourselves to Hashem’s Din, we refrain from expressing that in a situation it might mean more than we were counting on.

    As to why people seem to hate it, that is a product of how often it is said or left out. We don’t mind Lamnatzeach so much, since besides being much shorter, it is almost never left out. Therefore, we don’t anticipate it.

    #843524
    Sam2
    Participant

    CA: That’s not P’shat. The point is that Tachanun is such an effective Tefillah that she knew that because R’ Gamliel had caused him pain that if he said Tachanun properly that R’ Gamliel would die as a result.

    #843525
    147
    Participant

    1st things 1st:- Both Tachnun & Hallel come from the same book of Tehillim; so Mimonofshoch, both on Yom Ha’Atzma’ut & 23 days later on Yom Yerusholayim, we are all going to recite the same book of Tehillim, some of us from the earlier Perek 6, and other from latter Perkim 113-118.

    By a Shiva, we also are all going to recite the same book of Tehillim, some of us from Chapter 16 {or 49 according to some Minhogim} whereas other will still be reciting Chapter 6. By a Shiva we don’t recite Tachanun because Tachnun reminds us of Din, and by a Shiva in the immediate aftermath of the departure of a beloved, who cannot be thinking of the ongoing Din of the recently departed individual!! I hope this answered your 2nd question, Gubbish.

    As for your 1st question Gubbish, your very 1st question should have been:- How can I Daven at a shiva, since there is a Halocho:- That 1 should always Daven at his/her Mokom Kavu’a, and not be Minyan jumping around. I was taught many years ago at a Halocho shiur, that despite this Halocho, sometimes other considerations override this Halocho, such as the Chessed of being “Menachem Avail”. Clearly, not having a Minjan at a Shiva house, and even having to await a Minjan, is a Bizoyon both to the Deceased’s Neshomo & to the Availim, whereas a large crowd is a huge Kovod both to the Niftor & the Availim, so you Gubbish should absolutey attend the Shiva Minjan, eventhough you will be omitting Tachnun. Reciting Perek 16 {49} and a Mishna Shiur will probably take more time than Tachnun, anyways.

    By attending the Minjan at the Shiva, not only are you not being bad about Tachanun, but you are being a Tzaddik for fulfilling and complying with a Torah obligation of “VeHolachto BiDerochov” :- “Mah Hu Menachem Avail >>> Gam Atoh Menachem Avail!!!”

    #843526
    gubbish
    Participant

    thank you so much! and btw , its not that i care about the time, i enjoy spending time davening. its just the unanswerable 3rd question and a odd disliking for tachanun in particulair tht bugs me… but thank you for ur answer, although shiva is already over.

    and the shul i davened shacharis at didnt say tachanun today! (i think cuz of rambam’s yarhtzeit? is that a valid reason not to say tachanun?…)

    #843527
    gefen
    Participant
    #843528
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Does Rabbi Shmueli say Tachnun on Nittel?

    #843529
    147
    Participant

    Many years ago I was leading services at a small Steibel, and after Schacharis Amida, sat down to Tachnun, despite some old guy screaming at me to say Kaddish. After services he was so livid at me for having no respect for his revered Rebbe, whose Johrzeit was on that day.

    I made it as clear as crystal to him, that my recitation of Tachanun had absolutely nothing to do with disdain for his Rebbe, and that I even recite Tachnun on Adar 7th, even though clearly I respect Moshe Rabbeinu, but quite simply:- Schulchon Orech makes no mention in the list of dates of Tachnun omission, neither of Adar 7th, nor vis a vis private dates, of any Yohrzeit like say for a Beris or Chosson. Despite my response to him, he remained livid at me, but clearly I had nothing to apologize to him about, being that I was conforming to the Shulchon Oruch.

    So to answer your question Gubbish, you should absolutely have recited Tachnun today, and you Gefen should absolutely recite Tachnun tomorrow Monday.

    When I find myself at some Minjan not reciting Tachnun on a Tachnun day, I recite it quitely as per a Pesak from my Rosh Yeshiva ZTKLLH’H, and if I know ahead that they will be omitting Tachnun when it is supposed to be recited, will already recite Tachnun after silent Amida prior to Chazoras haShatz.

    #843530
    147
    Participant

    Of-course Rabbi Shmueli recites Tachnun on Nittel Nacht, or more accurately:- Mincha preceding it & Schacharis following it, except of-course when it is Chanukah, which of-course it can never be, if HaLevi is referring to Russian Orthodox Nittel Nacht.

    Ironically Rabbi Shmueli does not recite Tachnun on day of Shmuel HaNovi’s Johrzeit, as Shmuel Hanovi’s Zechus led to the incredible amazing Ness of Yom Yerusholayim on his very own Johrzeit.

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