The biggest issue facing the Frum world

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  • #617714

    offbeat2
    Member

    Starting a study- what’s the biggest (controversial) issues facing Frum Jews today- ranging from MO, chassidish and anyone in between.

    One line responses only please! And you can add your religious affiliations if you’d like…

    #1154001

    GRATEFULBLAC
    Participant

    The Shidduch crisis!

    #1154002

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Biggest issue: dissension between different groups of religious Jews.

    My affiliation: EuroTraditional Misnagid OOT

    #1154003

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Finances

    It affects every, Its getting too expensive from yeshiva tutions, Kosher food and the high cost of living in a Frum area

    #1154004

    Joseph
    Participant

    Cholent.

    #1154005

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    The progressive social action of Western society.

    Yeraim.

    #1154006

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    100% Agree with ZD. It’s getting to be where there are a few select places that are frum, affordable, and safe. If you’re rich enough, you can afford the tuition. If you’re poor enough, you can get it subsidized. It’s boxing out the frum middle class.

    #1154007

    old man
    Participant

    Dishonesty and hypocrisy

    #1154008

    mw13
    Participant

    The phenomena of people who, as R’ Ahron Feldman put it, “are observant, but not quite religious.” Commonly know as Frum By Route.

    #1154009

    Joseph
    Participant

    *rote

    #1154010

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    ZD – Only in America, and that is happening to non-Jews as well.

    #1154011

    blubluh
    Participant

    Infighting and attitudes that perpetuate it.

    #1154012

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Its a problem in israel too, Do you know how much real estate costs there?

    Jerusalem , Bnei Brak and other places where charedim live are super expensive (Most of the country is expensive except for places like Arad which is in the Negev Desert) and some parts of the Gallile

    #1154013

    Dishonesty and corruption

    Which brings us to why we are living in Denial. Cause we “can’t face reality” and admit I’m having a problem NOW and I need to deal with it now to solve it, but instead the person/parents block it from their face and let the situation get worse.

    Really insane

    Wake up to reality and face your issues by solving them 1 at a time. Its part of life, no one is perfect we all have problems

    Hatzlacha

    #1154014

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Its a problem in israel too, Do you know how much real estate costs there?

    Only because Charaidim expect the parents to buy them an apartment next door. If they would live in Arad, or even get a job (Chas V’Shalom) and buy after they can afford it (like everyone else in the world), it would not be a problem.

    #1154015

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    In the US it isnt any different , if frum people would move to Rochester, Michigan or Scranton housing would be cheaper

    #1154016

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    I agree with zahavasdad. You can’t blame anyone else if you insist on living in Brooklyn and cry why can’t I afford to live here. There was an article recently in mishpacha with a bunch of people showing the cramped living conditions and high cost of living. Most said that they have reasons that they can’t move out of town. While some might be legit I suspect that for most its bec. they can’t lose the mindset that the world ends at the verezano bridge. Move to a place with cheaper housing and you will see that you can live without 17 kosher Chinese restaurants and 24/6 sushi.

    #1154018

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    In the US it isnt any different , if frum people would move to Rochester, Michigan or Scranton housing would be cheaper

    Housing was #3 on your list, I agree with you that is less of an issue. Tuition is the biggie.

    #1154019

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The places with cheaper housing either dont have yeshivas or have one choice of Yeshiva. I know people in Scranton are forced to send their high schoolers to dorming or to live with grandparents so whatever is saved is lost on the dorming

    Kosher food is also harder to get and more expensive in more remote areas.

    My list was not in any particular order

    #1154020

    Joseph
    Participant

    Moving out of NY raises your tuition and kosher food costs and likely travel and commuting expenses. And frequently may result in lower salaries, if you are distant to the metropolitan area. And, for many, living away from any family.

    #1154021

    Bored_on_the_Job
    Participant

    In the US it isnt any different , if frum people would move to Rochester, Michigan or Scranton housing would be cheaper.

    Are there good, professional jobs in these places?

    #1154022

    Health
    Participant

    The phenomena of people who are Fakers, but they don’t realize it!

    They think they are the Frummist of them all!

    #1154023

    dovrosenbaum
    Participant

    Parnassa/Finances is definitely number one of what I see.

    #1154024

    oomis
    Participant

    About to shut down the computer, but I wanted to say that lack of achdus, to me, is the biggest problem facing us as a klal today.

    #1154025

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    Kosher food is not necessarily more expensive out of town. I have found the prices in Monsey to be more expensive than OOT. Tuition is also cheaper because the cost of living is lower(if you can’t survive on a middle income salary how do you think your kid’s Rebbe is making it?). Also a big factor to consider is the fact that there is less pressure to “keep up with the Cohen’s”, hence cheaper simchas, clothes children’s “needs” etc. Living two hours away from family is also not necessarily living away from family although granted it may make babysitting more complicated. The yeshivos are just as good if not better outside of NY. Ask anyone living in places like Cleveland, Waterbury, Detroit, Baltimore etc. And yes, the Almighty finds jobs for people all over.

    #1154026

    dovrosenbaum
    Participant

    What might be ideal is to create OOT communities within 3-4 hours of larger communities, if possible. Waterbury, Baltimore, etc. are like this. They’re not that OOT. Waterbury is within commuting time to NYC. Same with New Haven. Very nice community, close to NYC and not far from Brookline.

    #1154027

    newbee
    Member

    I don’t get why so many frum Jews insist on living in Queens and Brooklyn, especially newly weds that have options to move.

    Quality of life is awful there in my opinion- there are so many nicer places to live.

    #1154028

    newbee
    Member

    Money is usually the number one issue for most people in nearly every society and generation throughout history.

    #1154029

    newbee
    Member

    I have heard time and time again from people who have left Brooklyn and Queens to a smaller town and by far most of them confirm they would never go back.

    #1154030

    nfgo3
    Member

    Parnassah – not enough bochurs are learning enough secular stuff, like STEM – science, technology, engineering and medicine – to enter the high-paying professions.

    And should rabbis and rosh yeshivas be the highest earners in the frum community?

    #1154031

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Lakewood and Monsey/Rockland area arent really any cheaper than Brooklyn

    Lakewood is a little cheaper, but it seems that is changing quickly as Lakewood is getting pricey

    #1154032

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTRebbe – do you know any OOT yeshivas charging anywhere close to $4K tuition? In NY that can be found (as well as less for the underprivileged). Cholov Yisroel is going to be more expensive OOT as well as most kosher foods including glatt. In NY your can find wedding halls with discounted “takana” pricing. And how many Manhattan-type salaries can be found away from the metro area? Much harder and far fewer.

    newbee – In every frum neighborhood in NY there are tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of former OOTers who moved to NY. (You have this in Lakewood as well.)

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-new-york-is-the-best

    #1154033

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Newbee….

    My parents left NYC (he was from Brooklyn, she from the Bronx) with my older siblings for Connecticut in 1950. I was born here.

    They went back. My father Z”L in 2009 and my mother Z”L in 2015 to be buried in the family plots in Mt. Hebron Cemetery, Queens.

    All of us siblings lived in Brooklyn at one time or another in our early adulthood, but chose to make our permanent American homes and raise our families in New England…one sister in Massachusetts, the rest of us in CT. She and her husband have just retired and are moving 4 houses away from me. They had no desire to return to NYC.

    Living an hour from Manhattan and 90 minutes from Queens and Brooklyn is just right. Not too far to travel for a simcha, a special meal, to shop in a specific store, attend a concert or shiur, but far enough away to avoid the hassles, hustle and bustle.

    I have one son and daughter in-law plus grandchildren living in Brooklyn. They will be joining us in Connecticut at the end of the school year. Their 3 bedroom apartment has just gone to contract for a sales price that will let them buy a 5 bedroom 4 bath home here, plus pay the kids tuition for 2 years.

    It’s all about priorities. We are misnagdim, we don’t have to live nearby a particular rebbe. Our extended family is large enough that food purveyors gladly deliver our orders from NY. None of us miss schlepping with a baby carriage on the Avenue or trying to use an overcrowded public park. I rather my kids/grandkids are in my 2 acre backyard, swimming in my private pool or playing tennis or basketball on my court and not subject to the noise and pollution of the city.

    #1154034

    newbee
    Member

    “In every frum neighborhood in NY (NYC) there are tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of former OOTers who moved to NY (NYC). (You have this in Lakewood as well.)”

    Those guys are crazy (unless its for parnassa, family issue or something like that)- no offense.

    #1154035

    newbee
    Member

    “I rather my kids/grandkids are in my 2 acre backyard, swimming in my private pool or playing tennis or basketball on my court”

    Dude, TMI.

    #1154036

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The biggest issue is the way issues are presented.

    #1154037

    feivel
    Participant

    I’ve noted this in a previous thread.

    If you peruse the posts of CT you will find an astonishing amount of highly detailed personal information.

    Probably more than the FBI would require for a standard background check.

    Yet this same person won’t put his address in a Tefillin bag.

    I’m thinking perhaps CT is the fantasy persona of some janitor in a big legal firm.

    #1154038

    Why TMI?

    #1154039

    newbee
    Member

    “I’m thinking perhaps CT is the fantasy persona of some janitor in a big legal firm.”

    Thats hilarious lol.

    Because while Im sure he is a very nice guy he consistently provides superfluous, highly detailed information about his great wealth and Americana yichus. Its funny.

    But you don’t find him speaking this way about others so maybe you still have what to learn

    #1154040

    newbee
    Member

    “But you don’t find him speaking this way about others so maybe you still have what to learn”

    I like it, we are all giving each-other mussar, albeit for different things.

    I’m not sure who “we all” are but putting him down may not qualify as mussar. My method of choice is usually the delete button 🙂

    #1154041

    feivel
    Participant

    “But you don’t find him speaking this way about others so maybe you still have what to learn.”

    Although this wasn’t directly addressed to me, I’ll take it as if it was.

    Sorry CT, you are clearly a very fine person. Sometimes I just can’t resist a joke. My post WAS in fun. But maybe not so funny.

    #1154042

    feivel
    Participant

    Well, it WAS funny.

    #1154043

    feivel
    Participant

    No?

    Well if you’re asking my opinion, it was obviously a joke. Although it technically would have been more joke, and less put down, if it was directed *to* him instead of *about* him. But that’s just my two cents. The real question is how CT feels about it. CT?

    #1154044

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Joseph, OOTers (at least the ones I know) marry off their kids in Lakewood, Monsey, or Brooklyn, so the absence of affordable wedding halls OOT isn’t important.

    #1154045

    Joseph
    Participant

    … and then the married kids live in Lakewood, Monsey or Brooklyn while the parents’ OOT community ages and is drained of Jewish growth.

    #1154046

    newbee
    Member

    It was funny indeed. One of the few times I actually laughed out loud in this place.

    Mod, I meant giving mussar to be modest and not flaunt vs giving mussar not to make jokes.

    I certainly hope CT takes anything said as friendly humor and not too seriously.

    🙂

    #1154047

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Joseph, that’s not true of many OOT communities. For instance, Baltimore attracts young people because the housing is cheaper. Boston attracts young people because of the opportunities for secular education.

    If you don’t live in the community where your wedding was raise your hand. (Raises hand).

    #1154048

    Burnt Steak
    Participant

    There are many areas in the USA outside of NY that allow frum people to live comfortably. I’m not from New York and I am currently living in New York for School. The price of food overall is actually cheaper out of New York than in New York. Sure Kosher meat and cheese are cheaper, but the other things like fruits and vegetables and other objects are much cheaper and usually better quality outside of New York.

    Almost all Jewish schools outside of New York will never reject a kid because they can’t pay for it. So there should not be any complaint about not being able to afford a Jewish education. Many people support these places outside of New York. However the choices are not always going to be perfect. But that can be a good thing as your child will learn to be more accepting of Jews from all different walks of life. In my high school class, there were kids from conservative backgrounds and kids that wore blackhats. We got along fine and we saw each other simply as, “my Jewish brother.”

    There are many companies outside of the New York area. You can find a job in almost any city in the United States. While New York City has the most fortune 500 companies (72); Houston (49), Atlanta (22), Chicago (22), and Dallas (15) also have a large amount of fortune 500 companies. Most cities with a fortune 500 company have a Jewish community. (Think Denver, St. Louis, Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh, L.A., Oakland – San Fran bay area, Seattle, Phoenix, Minneapolis, ect…)

    It all comes down to how willing you are to leave your comfort zone. Unless the reason is something personal, there really are not so many legit reasons to stay in the New York area if you can’t afford it. Out of New York you can get by with an income of 50k, in New York that it is a much more difficult task.

    #1154049

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I saw on another site a special ed kid from Florida wanted to go to Yeshiva. He was looking for people to put him up in NJ so he could go to Kushner acadamy. It seems there is no jewish special ed in Florida and the only place to get it is in NY area

    #1154050

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Feivel, Newbee….

    I didn’t take offense. If I was afraid of adverse comments, even in jest, I wouldn’t post and I certainly would not be involved in local politics.

    I don’t consider myself to have great wealth, aside from my family>wife, children, grandchildren.

    The point is a dollar buys much more house and land outside of NYC. That’s why those in the suburbs put up with a much longer walk to the one orthodox shul in town.

    It’s all about choices and what makes one feel comfortable.

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