The Bombadier Beetle

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  • #589195

    feivel
    Participant

    MORE WONDERS of the BOREH:

    The bombardier beetle is a small insect that is armed with a shockingly impressive defense system. Whenever threatened by an enemy attack, this little beetle blasts irritating and odious gases, which are at 212 degrees F. out from two tail pipes at a very high velocity and force right into the unfortunate face of the would be aggressor.

    Research has revealed the fact that this beetle has a double set of apparatus. In twin storage chambers, he stores an aqueous solution of two chemicalsl0% hydroquinone, and 23% hydrogen peroxide (a powerful oxidizing agent). The bombardier beetle adds an inhibitor which prevents the chemicals from reacting.

    of course this all took millions of years to develop since it was the result of random totally unrelated, unplanned, accidents (birth defects really) these beetles kept blowing themselves up in the course of the many million year experiment, but thankfully they finally got it right.

    #778888

    areivimzehlazeh
    Participant

    Rosh Yeshiva- this time DO NOT PUT YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH, just shhhh

    #778889

    Curious
    Member

    feivel – where do you pick this up from?!?!

    Do you also read encyclopedias in your free time? (OK. I’ll be the first to admit. Way back I used to.)

    #778890

    RoshYeshivah
    Member

    millions of years? feivel was that said in jest?

    #778891

    This is so weird

    #778892

    feivel
    Participant

    curious: kind of randomly, ie one day i might type “amazing creatures” in google, then take it from there

    RY: yes, in jest; or rather, said in wonderment at how anyone could think chaotic randomness could produce such a marvel.

    #778893

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    of course this all took millions of years to develop since it was the result of random totally unrelated, unplanned, accidents (birth defects really) these beetles kept blowing themselves up in the course of the many million year experiment, but thankfully they finally got it right.

    I always marvel at how many people there are that dont believe in God. How can this kind of system be a accident? These things are amazing. Many scientists try to explain away God, but just because the world has the most amazing programmer (who made it so that nature runs its course without direct divine intervention neccesary at every moment), they think there is no God. I was once talking about this with someone who told me “intellegent design” does not mean God exists. That opened a can of worms!

    #778894

    RoshYeshivah
    Member

    arevim: I gotta put my foot somewhere could it be in your mouth?

    #778895

    feivel
    Participant

    ames

    i usually primarily copy and paste from different sources and add some words (or sometimes remove some technical parts) to make it more readable to the Yeshiva world, but completely based on one or more sources. i got in the habit of doing this and sending out the best ones to my Rav and a few other interested parties. it grew out of Seudah Shlesis discussions about Rabbi Avigdor Miller, tz’l.

    you know the Chovos HaLevovos states that this is one of two ways of coming closer to Hashem and developing a high level of Emunah, the other is Torah. Avrohom Aveinu, as you know, utilized this first method, and saw the second method within it.

    Hashem made the Briah with its BILLIONS of wonders for us to utilize. shall we ignore his will and kindness?

    in many regards (not all, certainly not for direct Schar) it is equal to learning Torah

    (the Gemorrah you might know about not stopping learning to appreciate the trees outdoors, which you might bring as a contradiction, referred to taking pleasure from the trees, not studying them)

    #778896

    feivel
    Participant

    SJ

    Rav Moshe Wolfson says “they DO believe” (eg the atheist in a foxhole example and many more) but they lie to themselves and cling with every ounce of strength to what they know to be lies, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT A BOSS.

    #778897

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    but they lie to themselves and cling with every ounce of strength to what they know to be lies, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT A BOSS.

    Very smart Rav! This is probably true for most people, but there are some true athiests. What I never understood is when Atheists talk about wanting a moral society without religion – how do you decide what is moral then? Its very arbritrary and many people end up using basic societal laws (like most of the Sheva Mitzvot Bnei Noach). Sorry, thats leeching off religion and God :-/

    #778898

    feivel
    Participant

    “is is probably true for most people, but there are some true athiests”

    i cant tell you but Rav Wolfson says that EVERYONE has complete Emunah implanted within him by the Boreh. an atheist is called a “kofer” in Loshon HaKodesh. Chazal say we can find the true root meaning of a word from the first place it is mentioned in the Torah. Kofer is first mentioned by Noah’s teveh, meaning to cover over, to prevent water from passing through. this is the root meaning of atheism, not really to deny as much as to cover and separate from that which is already within.

    do you think one of these “true atheists” if charles manson was holding a knife to his throat, after witnessing him murder the other people in the room, would not beg G-D to save him??

    “What I never understood is when Atheists talk about wanting a moral society without religion – how do you decide what is moral then? Its very arbritrary and many people end up using basic societal laws (like most of the Sheva Mitzvot Bnei Noach). Sorry, thats leeching off religion and G-d”

    EXACTLY

    hatler, i believe, truly thought he was perfecting the world, and that he was acting in accord with perfect “morality”

    #778899

    feivel
    Participant

    thank you ames

    i also got a bit of chills reading your story.

    R’ Miller zt’l, though i never saw or met him, i feel like he is my father and Rebbe.

    had a PROFOUND influence on me

    by the way, the first year or so that i listened to his tapes i assumed he was about 6 feet tall and 300 pounds

    #778900

    beacon
    Participant

    Feivel- thanks for all these informative and amazing articles. I have a suggestion- why not make one thread titled Wonders Of the Boreh (or something to that extent) and post the articles there? It might be more practical and easier..

    #778901

    TJ
    Member

    Ames: The source for replying “same to you” is the Gemara in Megillah (27b). Rav blessed his student Rav Huna, and the blessing came true. Rav then told Rav Huna that he should have responded to the bracha with “and the same to Mar (i.e. Rav).” According to Rashi, Rav told Rav Huna “You should have blessed me that I should also receive the same bracha, for perhaps it was an eis ratzon and the blessing would have been fulfilled for me as well.” The Aruch L’ner (Rav Ya’akov Ettlinger), in his hakdama to maseches Yevamos, quotes the following interpretation of Rashi that he heard from his father, Rav Aharon Ettlinger:

    Chazal state that people don’t tend to be jealous of their children or their students, and Rav CERTAINLY wasn’t jealous of his student Rav Huna. Rather, out of his humility, Rav wished to convey the impression that the bracha only came true because it was given at a favorable time. This way, he intended to preclude attribution of the bracha’s fulfillment to his own zechus.

    #778902

    Curious
    Member

    Other than amzing creatures, just read an in-depth biology/physiology textbook. The wonders… Never fails to amaze me.

    #778903

    notpashut
    Member

    I knew R’ Miller Ztz”l – he was literally one in 8.4 billion.

    I cried reading your story. There was & is nobody like him. Although there are Gedolim past & present he was absolutely unique. We are blessed to have had him in our generation.

    #778904

    squeak
    Participant

    SJS, do you subscribe the belief that God is a “clockmaker”, who “wound up” the world and then went away? This is now the second time that you have indicated that you do. That belief is kefirah. Read the first Ani Ma’amin to learn why.

    Please tell me that I misunderstood.

    #778905

    oomis
    Participant

    I don’t know how anyone can look at any marvel of nature and believe it could possibly have been a random act. The most perfect example of creation is just looking at any healthy baby. If that doesn’t prove the existence of G-d, I don’t know what can.

    #778906

    feivel
    Participant

    ames

    i have not read them

    i will not read them

    if you have a question based on those books, i might be able to answer it or not, if you want try one.

    #778908

    Curious
    Member

    Arachim and Gateways seminars (Hebrew or English) have great lectures reconciling seeming contradictions between science and Torah. Most of it is geared for the non-religious corwd, but is eye opening for everyone.

    #778909

    notpashut
    Member

    R’ Yitzchok Scheiner & R’ Elya Weintraub who are both American born Gedolim living in Eretz Yisroel both signed the ban against his books & they obviously read English as well as me & you.

    R’ Moshe Meiselman (who has a Phd) gave a shmuess in Toras Moshe calling the books kefira.

    Excerpts from the books were read to R’ Moshe Schapiro by a Slifkin SUPPORTER & after hearing those words he also gave a shuir calling it kefira.

    R’ Aharon Feldman (who initially was a Slifkin supporter) wrote a series of articles explaining why R’ Elyashiv & all the Gedolim hold that his opinions are kefira.

    #778910

    feivel
    Participant

    zero

    mr “educated in science”

    how completely absurd

    it is a famously discredited and futile attempt to restore a bit of credibility to “evolution” .wherever you copied it from, it is desperately all over the internet.

    “small invaginations develop” they just “develop” what function did these invaginations serve untli the beetle “learned to wiggle”? how did it learn to wiggle? how many cosmic rays and birth defects did it take until the beetles central nervous system was reorganized so that it should wiggle? do you think the beetle “figured out” how to wiggle, then teaches this wiggling to its larvae? how did this occur without damaging the preexisting perfectly functioning neurological organization? after a million years of reorganization, how was it reorganized further to wiggle only when certain predators were recognized? (we dont want the wiggling to deplete its store of toxins when no predators are present.) after it learned to wiggle when predators were present, how many more millions of years were needed for the brilliant mother evolution to teach it that it should only wiggle when the predator is a certain distance? too far and its a waste, too close and its too late. and how many more birth defects did it take until it could wiggle in the direction of the predator? what good were the invaginations when the toxin was distributed over its skin? how did the surface of the invaginations learn to make more of the toxin to fill the invagination? if the skin toxins were effective why did they stop making them?

    none of the components of this complex system can function without the others.

    invaginations happened

    invaginations deepen

    muscles move

    some invaginations deepen

    some disappear

    cells develop

    channels appear

    muscles move some more

    no intelligence is directing this

    nothing but randomness.

    nothing of consequence is said

    your “proposed scenario is almost as full of holes as the evolution fantasy itself.

    here is how a mousetrap is made when a tornado travels through a junkyard:

    a piece of wood appears

    a nail is bent by the wind pushing it against a pipe (pipes and nails are common in a junkyard) the wind then pushes the point of the nail into the piece of wood

    a spring is forced from a childs toy

    the spring has pointed ends and is stuck in the wood across from the nail

    the spring is attached to a firm metal wire which was previously bent by the wind…i havent got any more time for this nonsense

    #778911

    notpashut
    Member

    Ames,

    Your wholesomeness is refreshing on this web-site.

    R’ Aharon Feldman actually went to R’ Elyashiv to try & convince him that slifkin was RIGHT & R’ Elyashiv sat with him for two hours.

    When he went back to America he wrote those articles.

    #778912

    intellegent
    Member

    sjs,

    “intellegent design”

    Did I confuse your spelling???

    #778913

    notpashut
    Member

    The Rosh HaYashiva of Ner Yisroel Baltimore & a person who is EXTREMELY well versed in secular subjects as well as being an outstanding Talmid Chochom. (not that he needs my haskama)

    #778915

    notpashut
    Member

    🙂

    #778916

    notpashut
    Member

    I’m not sure – check online, that’s where I saw them some time ago.

    Some Rabbanim gave haskamos without properly reviewing the books beforehand.

    Some Rabbanim really felt it was OK but when the Gedolai HaDor said otherwise reversed their opinion.

    Two Rabbanim (that I know of) still feel that it’s OK.

    #778917

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    SJS, do you subscribe the belief that God is a “clockmaker”, who “wound up” the world and then went away? This is now the second time that you have indicated that you do. That belief is kefirah. Read the first Ani Ma’amin to learn why.

    I do not believe that Hashem designed the world, set it to run and then left. I believe that Hashem set up the world to run naturally, and does not alter the course of nature unless Hashem has a good reason to. So, as a general rule, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. Can Hashem change that? Yes. Does He usually?

    Also, I’ve always heard that most miracles can be explained through science, because that is the way Hashem programmed the world. I think I’ve mentioned this before, but my physics professor told me that there is a non-zero probability that all the water molecules in a body of water can align in the same direction, making Kriat Yam Suf possible according to the laws of nature. So even miracles might just be Hashem’s “programming” that seems to us like a miracle of divine intervention. Everything is run by Hashem though.

    Also, I understand how people can think that Hashem “wound up the world” and doesn’t intervene. At least they believe that Hashem created the world. Is there more of a requirement for the sheva mitzvot bnei noach? I thought it was just belief in Hashem.

    I hope this clears up my kefirah status 🙂

    “intellegent design”

    Did I confuse your spelling???

    LOL! Lets call it pregnancy brain!

    #778918

    notpashut
    Member

    “but i would still like an answer as to why a book would get a haskama if it was krum (i do believe it had a good one but my memory may deceive me)”

    I answered that question in my last post.

    #778920

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    so if someone has a medical miracle, how do you view that?

    Don’t get me wrong – I have no problem with miracles. I think we often overlook the “small” miracles that are often more amazing than the big ones. Its amazing how short a span of time a woman has to get pregnant every month. And yet, there are so many babies being born all the time.

    We don’t actually know what a medical miracle is. We don’t know what triggers the refuah. So it seems to be a miracle but may just be the right trigger of things. Granted, I thank Hashem for it and don’t discount it as a miracle. I was really talking more science/nature related.

    #778921

    ames,

    I never read slifkin’s book or that article you’re talking about, but reading your post above made a major impression on me. The way you seek the truth and answers to your questions about judaism and the simcha that you have when finding those answers is truly inspiring.

    #778922

    notpashut
    Member

    mi k’amcha yisrael!

    #778923

    feivel
    Participant

    sj

    CERTAINLY you are not a kofer, chas v Shalom, but what you say is not the Emes. read, if you will, Derech Hashem, who explains, as do all Meforshim, that Hashem controls everything that occurs, at all times. if you throw a handful of sand into the air, Hashem directs the path of every single grain as it falls to the ground. In NO sense do things occur according to “laws of nature” that Hashem created. the “laws of nature” are simply the ways in which Hashem limits his actions. that’s one reason why He is called Ne’eman. that’s one reason why he is called Shadai, the limiting one.

    we say somewhere in the Davening in the morning that Hashem creates the world anew every moment. if so what the Ramchal (Derech Hashem) says must logically be so. think about it.

    #778924

    feivel
    Participant

    the basic reason for the creation of the World is for Bechira, so that we may choose Good over Evil, and thus justly receive Reward.

    this requires a delicate balance in the World.

    thus when the Yetzer HaRah for Avodah Zorah was “schected”, Nvius also ended.

    thus Good must be balanced by Evil

    Emes in the world must be balanced by Sheker in the world

    clear vision must be balanced by illusion

    Light must be balanced by the potential for darkness

    spiritual light by spiritual darkness

    The Torah must be balanced by the views of the Nations

    thank you, zero, for keeping us balanced.

    #778925

    feivel
    Participant

    sj

    correction

    i said “all” Meforshim

    actually i believe there maybe a few who hold differently than the Ramchal, i think.

    but the Ramchals Derech is certainly the generally accepted one.

    #778926

    notpashut
    Member

    Hamechadesh b’tuvo b’chol yom TAMID.

    The Alter of Slabodka points out that being that Hashem recreates the world every moment, each moment is a new world – & a new opportunity.

    #778928

    feivel
    Participant

    no Rabbi

    you are certainly correct about Hashgacha Pratis.

    but the issue i am talking about is quite distinct from Hashgacha Pratis

    Hashem controls every movement of every atom (indeed every quark and whatever quarks might be composed of). every movement of every person, Jew and goy, every animal, every plant.

    Hashgocho Pratis has to do with the “interest”, mida kneged mida, mercy, and other parameters that are distinguished between the Jew and goy.

    in addition Hashem deals with the Jew directly, not through melachim as he does with the goy. this is all quite clear in Derech Hashem

    the “laws of nature” are merely the ways in which Hashem has chosen to limit himself, so to speak. the sun does not come up every morning because Hashem “wound its spring” 5,000 years ago. Hashem brings up the sun every morning.

    a miracle is not Hashem intervening in “nature”. it is the same as all other phenomena except that it differs from the “laws” of the Briah, except for those miracles that were placed into the Briah at the time of creation. it’s essential nature is no different however. Ramchal is not ambiguous about this.

    #778929

    feivel
    Participant

    invaginations happen

    muscles move

    the beetle learns to wiggle

    cells move

    cells appear

    chemicals appear

    walls get thicker

    abdomen elongates

    lots of other stuff happens, lots

    A mixture of these two chemicals in the presence of the two enzymes in a confined space is explosive. The beetle, on his way to becoming a bombardier beetle, would have to be smart enough to carefully store the chemicals in a storage chamber apart from the enzymes but in the presence of an inhibitor to prevent them from reacting prematurely with one another. He also would have to be smart enough to know which enzymes he needs to catalyze the chemical reactions involved, and he would have to be smart enough to secrete them into the combustion chamber. The combustion chamber itself must be very special, able to resist the corrosive effect of the hot, irritating chemicals and strong enough to contain the high pressure without rupturing. The combustion chamber must also be equipped with a highly efficient valve, and the appropriate muscles must exist to manipulate the combustion tube and point it in the right direction. Of course, all of this incredibly complex apparatus would be totally useless without a precisely designed and perfectly functional communication system to squirt the charge of chemicals into the combustion tube, secrete the enzymes into the combustion tube, activate the valve at the appropriate moment, and differentially and precisely send the correct signals to all of the different muscles involved, in order to point the combustion tube in the right direction. Evolutionists would have us believe that all of the thousands of genes required to direct the construction and operation of all of this arose through a series of copying errors. Furthermore, these complex genetic changes had to occur in just the right order, so that at every stage of development the beetle was not only able to survive but also was actually superior to the preceding stage.

    This notion is more than scientifically untenable; it is simply preposterous, but those with their rock hard faith will continue to squirm and wiggle and turn logic on its head to provide “answers”

    this is nothing new. the Torah has been attacked with “logic” since the greek “philosophers” and beyond.

    we know the Torah will endure all these attacks, and fools in the guise of wise professors will be seen to be what they are.

    #778930

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    ROB, I was just going to post something similiar!

    Welcome back BTW. Havent seen you in a bit. Have a shot for me 🙂

    #778931

    feivel
    Participant

    ames

    i dont know if its a bigger miracle or not, i think its the same thing, and appreciation of the Boreh’s kindness should be the same for both. but this appreciation, that is what is greater when it is recognized during health than after a recovery from illness.

    #778932

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    In NO sense do things occur according to “laws of nature” that Hashem created. the “laws of nature” are simply the ways in which Hashem limits his actions.

    Feivel, I think we are debating semantics at this point. I did NOT say that Hashem wound up the world and lets it run. Just that Hashem runs the world according to the rules of nature (that HE established) as a general rule. HE set the rules for this world and generally follows them. So, as a general rule, the sun rises in the east.

    Are you not liking my use of the word “programming”? Maybe that is throwing you off? Hashem oversees the world (including ever minute detail) and runs it. But generally, Hashem runs it according to HIS rules of nature.

    #778934

    feivel
    Participant

    ok sj

    i misunderstood you!

    rabbi yes check Ramchal again

    Hashem did NOT program miracles into the Briah, only specific ones that were created Bain HaShmoshos the first Erev Shabbos. i believe when Yehoshua stopped the sun this was one of them (not positive) this is a famous Medresh. the rest of your misconceptions i already discussed.

    #778935

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Hashem did NOT program miracles into the Briah, only specific ones that were created Bain HaShmoshos the first Erev Shabbos.

    Do you have a list of what they are? I am very curious! Is Kriyat Yam Suf on of them? Because if you read my post above its scientifically plausible.

    #778936

    moish01
    Member

    it’s in pirkei avos – i know there are ten of them and i could probably list a few but i don’t remember them by heart.

    and kriyas yam suf was an event, not a creation. it was things like bilam’s donkey and the shamir, i think.

    (WHERE’S MY REBBE?!)

    #778937

    Itzik_s
    Member

    BS”D

    That is the difference between Torah and modern krumkeit.

    Torah shows how EVERYTHING in creation is a miracle; the very fact that we are here and can do His will and create as He does is the biggest miracle of all.

    Modern krumkeit a/k/a science tries to reduce everything to a set of scientific explanations that may temporarily explain HOW it works but will never explain WHY it works because Torah has already explained that.

    Very nice to know the mechanism of krias Yam Suf (or better yet to have the arrogance to THINK that we know it because tomorrow someone will come up with a different explanation). But WHY did it happen just when am Yisroel needed it to happen?

    Some koifer once came up with a theory that lehavdil the whole Matan Torah was chas vesholom a mass delusion that was caused by the ingestion of some hallucinogenic weed that grew near Har Sinai. The Yam Suf explanation may be just as ridiculous and far from the truth as this unmitigated nonsense for all we know.

    #778938

    feivel
    Participant

    Pirke Avos 5:6 states: “Ten things were created Erev Shabbos bein hashmashos”:

    1.The opening of the earth that swallowed Korach and his followers.

    2.the well that opened when Moshe hit the rock.

    3.the mouth of Bilaam’s donkey that enabled it to speak).

    4.the first rainbow, during Noach’s time.

    5.the mann.

    6.Moshe’s staff.

    7.the shamir

    8.the shapes of the letters.

    9.the original writing implement used in writing the Aseres Dibros

    10.the original stone tablets

    #778940

    moish01
    Member

    feivel – if you would’ve given me a few more minutes i might have come up with a couple more!

    #778941

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Very nice to know the mechanism of krias Yam Suf (or better yet to have the arrogance to THINK that we know it because tomorrow someone will come up with a different explanation). But WHY did it happen just when am Yisroel needed it to happen?

    Why did it happen? Because it was the ratzon Hashem. There is no question there. That doesnt discount the explanation. Its a cool explanation IMO, but then again, I am geeky and like science.

    Torah shows how EVERYTHING in creation is a miracle; the very fact that we are here and can do His will and create as He does is the biggest miracle of all.

    Actually, I think NOTHING is a “miracle” – everything is just ratzon Hashem. Hashem can do everything equally – the same way he can split the sea, he can make grass grow. The difference is to US in how we view it. To us, since the sea doesn’t split every day it seems like a miracle.

    Itzik, are you OK today? You seem more snippy than usual.

    #778942

    feivel
    Participant

    excellent moishe

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