The future of the democracy of the U.S. government

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  • #1980405
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    Does anyone know how much longer we have before the entire democracy and freedom of the United States government is completely destroyed C”V? it’s only a matter of time and their doing in steps quietly as the crazy Leftists democrats do it one step at a time without us even realizing before the USA becomes a complete communist country C”V

    1) everyone is staying home from work as they continue to collect unemployment from the government. Why should a person go work if they can get free money? When on the other hand every store in the country now has signs of available job positions open to walk in and apply for.

    2)the Leftists democrats are illegally bribing everyone to switch over to democrat by quietly slipping everyone free money of stimulus checks costing the country trillions of dollars with a change of inflation and lots of more damage to the economy with news saying that a 4th and 5th stimulus check is heading out to everyone soon. That’s trillions of more dollars costing from everyone paying to cover it and inflation damage etc….. Effecting the entire country economy badly.

    Dr. Fauci and Bill gates together came up with this Coronavirus pandemic plan together quietly to bring it upon the nation and the world so they can access to your entire life and all your information. As well as the entire tech world now of Google, Facebook and Twitter that are conquering to take over our entire freedoms and privacy of our lives and share it with whoever they want.

    It’s only a matter of time before this beautiful Medina Shel chessed country and all the democracy and freedom is completely destroyed by the Leftists.

    How do you feel about this? How can this be prevented from happening? How can we continue to live in a democracy with freedom?

    Time for klal yisroel to come together for serious teshuva and achdus ASAP together as a nation. Nothing just happens by accident or coincidence.

    #1980413
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    😧

    #1980416
    Avi K
    Participant

    The biggest threat to democracy is Big Tech. As it stands now they are not subject to the First Amendment (Prager University vs. GOOGLE LLC, FKA Google, Inc.;
    YOUTUBE, LLC, decided by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals) so they can censor people as they wish. They have already done this to various GOP figures including former President Trump as well as to Yair Netanyahu. They have also interfered in other countries, among them Australia.

    #1980429
    Participant
    Participant

    “The biggest threat to democracy is Big Tech. As it stands now they are not subject to the First Amendment”
    ???
    They’re not required to implement the rights of the First Amendment in their businesses? is that what u meant?

    #1980454
    Avi K
    Participant

    Participant, that is correct. They can block and deplatform whomever they want.

    #1980482
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Maybe it is the right that is destroying deoocracy by limiting peooles ability to vote? I can cash a check without an ID but voting will require one.

    #1980494
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Reb eliezer,

    1) so cashing a check should require an ID (didn’t know it doesn’t)

    2) according to your reasoning, why require an ID to buy liquor or cigarettes, fly on a plane or virtually anything else

    #1980507
    Avi K
    Participant

    In Israel, one must present one’s government-issued ID card (teudat zehut) before voting.

    #1980506
    Avi K
    Participant

    Apps/ATMs or check-cashing services that do not require ID. The former requires a bank account and presumably, an ID was presented to open it. The latter charge hefty fees which presumably reflect losses from bad checks. Banks and most check-cashing services do require some ID.

    #1980501
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Because there is an age requirement to buy does things. Currently we vote through signature recognition.

    #1980499
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I meant depoisting a check by using signature recognitiion rather than actually cashing.

    #1980558
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Voting should be viewed as a sacred trust, and should be made harder not easier

    #1980565
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “Because there is an age requirement to buy does things. Currently we vote through signature recognition.“

    There isn’t an age requirement to vote?

    Is there a citizenship requirement to cash a check? What about to vote?

    #1980567
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Reb E – your comparison makes no sense. There are no limits to how many checks you can cash and if you write a bad check it bounces. Voting is supposed to be one per customer, to a specific age and residency. If i was giving out free milk i wouldn’t care who came to take some. If i was giving away milk one per customer to residents of my condo association i would wantbto keep a record.

    #1980571
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    CA
    sure there is a requirement to vote. You need to register to vote and also be a legal USA citizen for your vote to count. You can’t just be a visitor and vote as a citizen for elections

    If a person is not a citizen and his check he just cashed bounces how will the bank ever be able to track him down to get their money back from the bounced check? So they require your full ID and information

    #1980605
    Health
    Participant

    SK -“Does anyone know how much longer we have before the entire democracy and freedom of the United States government is completely destroyed C”V?”

    LOL.
    You’re saying that the US is a Democracy?!?
    China & Russia have more Democracy than us.
    Trump won the 2020 election and No one, including Democrats that are law-abiding stood up to Stop the Insurrection!

    #1980614
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    The First Amendment applies to GOVERNMENT ACTION. It has nothing to do with big tech or other private concerns.
    A private concern has the right to decide who it allows to post or not.
    If the government ordered a private concern to allow an individual to post, that would be a great threat to Democracy

    Way back when most TV and radio (in the USA) was broadcast over the ‘public airways’ and the FCC ordered equal time provisions for opposing viewpoints. That could NOT be extended to cable, satellite or internet platforms. It has since been dropped for broadcast networks, who claimed it was an unfair burden since most of the competition wasn’t subject to the same requirements

    #1980633

    I find it absolutely disgusting that democrats assume black folk can’t follow simple instructions to be able to vote. This whole narrative that restrictive voting laws make blacks unable to vote is inherently racist. Wonder what the average non-partisan POC sitting at home think about all this. Biden basically forced the MLB all star game out of Georgia following the voting laws put into place there. Black voters there, who were hardest hit by the economic fallout of the game’s removed weren’t happy. Biden tried to walk back his “recommendation”. Too late.

    #1980568
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    I doubt there are any honest posters on this thread. But for the record, these stricter voting measures hurt both major parties. They are involved in a suicidal struggle, all the while convincing themselves that the other side is hurting more. The only winners in this vicious political cycle are progressives who are too stupid too think up a real platform.

    #1980739
    akuperma
    Participant

    Stop whining. You seriously underestimate the American people (probably since most people on the list live in the frum ghettos of greater New York and the only contact with goyim they have is with the woke nutcases who infest that area).

    While the Democrats and the Republicans make be shooting themselves their feet and otherwise makes fools of themselves, the roots of democracy (small D) and the republican (small R) tradition are deeply imbedded in American culture. That is what makes America exceptional, and why we have good reason to feel that America will no get the way of Germany (which never had a democratic or a republican tradition, and from its earliest origin never had a spirit of tolerance towards anyone).

    #1980722
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “I doubt there are any honest posters on this thread.“

    במומו פוסל

    Not sure why there has to be a dig at posters over here, but hey I guess it comes as second nature to some people that aren’t comfortable with themselves

    #1980698
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    How much time do YOU think or feel this country has left to breathe before a civil war breaks out C”V?

    #1980693
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    Which American law or amendment says that if a black person is a legal registered American citizen he’s still not allowed to vote?

    From my knowledge he’s now a full American citizen and registered to vote every year

    #1980757
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    They have a signature on file for a citizen which is being compared when he signs to vote. Maybe software should be ised for signature recognition called pattern matching.

    #1980766
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Dr. Fauci and Bill gates together came up with this Coronavirus pandemic plan together quietly to bring it upon the nation and the world so they can access to your entire life and all your information. As well as the entire tech world now of Google, Facebook and Twitter that are conquering to take over our entire freedoms and privacy of our lives and share it with whoever they want.

    This is so nutty that it discredits everything else you wrote.

    #1980790
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @RebEliezer
    ‘currently we vote through signature recognition’

    WHOA…hold your horses. Each state sets their own rules.
    We do NOT use signature recognition in CT. Speaking as an asst. Registrar of Voters who works as a supervisor at the polls on Election Day: In CT voters are asked to present a picture ID, but not required, they can refuse and sign an affidavit that they are registered to vote and then vote. Their ballots are held separately and not put through the tabulating machine at the polling location. They are placed in a bag, which is sealed by the moderator and sent to Town Hall. The affidavit is verified and if acceptable the vote tabulated with absentee ballots.
    The checkers at the poll look at the picture ID and the person presenting it and see if it looks like the same person. They do NOT look at signatures. The voter does not sign anything at the polls and the signature from the voter registration form is not available to be checked.
    At this point we have many senior citizens voting who registered more than 60 years ago. Their signatures may be quite different from when the registered.
    I registered 49 years ago and my signature is not even close to what is was when I was 18. The Town Clerk was not required to retain original registrations all these years. The last twenty years’ applications have been digitized in our town.

    Please avoid the word WE when you have no idea if what you post is universal,

    #1980814
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL,

    1. That is exactly my point. They set the limits of discourse. If they do not want an opinion or argument to become known they simply erase it. Sometimes they even cancel people forever. I think that your use of the term “could not” is incorrect. Congress can pass a law declaring social media to be public forums. It just has not. Why would that be a greater threat to democracy than the “equal time” rule? I do think that that there might be strong grounds for an antitrust action when they act in concert, as they did with Parler.

    2. A person’s picture certainly changes. Is there a requirement for a picture to have been taken within a certain number of years?

    #1980819
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    CTLAWYER, How do they validate the affidavits, if not by signature?

    #1980864
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Reb Eliezer
    The affidavit requires a lot of personal info that is verified with records in the Registrar’s office
    Full Legal Name
    Date and place of Birth
    Address
    Phone
    Social Security Number.

    Remember CT is a small state. Our town has only about 26,000 registered voters and 7 polling places. With 3 checkers from each party on duty at all times, plus two moderators, two asst, Registrars of Voters, two ballot clerks and two clerks working the tabulating machine the chances are near 100% that at least one of the poll workers will know any voter who shows up.
    I’ve worked the same polling location for 15 years, I probably know 60% of the voters who come in.
    I won’t know new arrivals in town or the 18 year olds voting the first time, but chances are they will be known.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Quick story….
    My father always went to NYC by train on Tuesdays and then voted on his way home from the train station, back in 1974 (before we had an ID requirement and drivers licenses didn’t have pictures), I was a poll worker. At 7:45PM a man walked in gave his address as his own and then my father’s name. I yelled out Challenge and asked the Moderator to have the man arrested. The moderator said how do you know? I said, that is not my father, whose name and address were given to get a ballot.
    Three minutes later my father walked in to vote. The policeman asked for his ID, then cuffed the first man and led him away.

    #1980863
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    The Picture ID should be currently valid.
    In CT Drivers Licenses are issued every 6 years.
    College or High School IDs are issued yearly
    Most Employee IDs are updated every few years

    #1980872
    Health
    Participant

    SK -“How much time do YOU think or feel this country has left to breathe before a civil war breaks out C”V?”

    It should have happened already – with the DemonCrats stealing the 2020 election!
    But most of Americans are too stoned out to know what’s going on!
    Both the Right & the Left are either Alcoholics or Drug Addicts.
    Why do you think that the Government never stopped the influx of drugs into this country?!?
    And now – a lot of States legalized Marijuana.
    Oregon has even Legalized Hard Drugs!

    The medical fact is – all these things affect the Brain.
    That’s why it’s Illegal to Drink and Drive.
    What do you think is happening Now in this Country – with all the Recreational Drugs becoming Legal?!?

    #1980862
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    Congress could pass a law that online forums were public forums, but it would lose a Constitutional challenge. Fairness Doctrine only applied to public airwaves and TV stations are licensed to operate at those frequencies for X years at a time.

    First Amendment rights cannot be applied to private business, unless they are acting in the government’s place. So if the Government rents space for a Post Office or Social Security office, the private landlord can’t ban Jews or Muslims from coming in the property, or distribution of literature on the sidewalk leading in, or other Free Speech protests

    #1980960
    HaKatan
    Participant

    Someone pointed out that we have in this generation all the chesronos of the Dor haMabul, Dor haFlaga and Sedom. It’s both amazing and frightening that America could have taken such a drastic dive into sheker and toeiva as it has, especially recently.

    (To his credit, President Trump brought back some decency to the country, but to no avail, as the current administration has dictated a total reversal of that and then worsening the same.)

    The good news in all this is that we have a mesorah from Rav Chaim Volozhin that the last station in Galus for Torah is America. And since America (meaning the USA), as we knew it, seems to be fading into history, that means that Mashiach’s arrival must be imminent BB”A.

    #1980968

    CTLawyer, interesting story – this seems to be an early documented case of attempted fake voting. I presume not every fake voter is unlucky to meet the son of the stolen identity person.

    Out of curiosity – did you ask him who he planned to vote for? If he stole a Jewish identity, he must have presumed that the voter is a Democrat, so he was probably a Republican.

    #1981045
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @always
    I did not ask him how he planned to vote.
    That said your supposition about Jews and Democrats is inaccurate. When we were growing up the Republican Party of the northeast was liberal, and may Jews voted for people such as Nelson Rockefeller, Kenneth Keating, John V. Lindsay. Lowell Weicker, etc.

    #1981027
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL, why would it be a violation of the First Amendment and not a regulation of interstate commerce? If Facebook may not erase someone’s post Zuckerberg’s speech is not be affected. Beside’s Facebook is a public corporation so it is not included in the Hobby Lobby precedent. He can even post a disclaimer.
    The Congressional Research Service has an online article entitled “UPDATE: Sidewalks, Streets, and Tweets: Is Twitter a Public Forum?” On page 2 it states “The government can designate new public forums by making “an affirmative choice” to create a space
    that is open for public expression. The Supreme Court has recognized that the Internet in general, and social media in particular, has become a critical forum for the expression of protected speech. And the federal courts of appeals have held that the government can create public forums on the Internet.” See the PUTNAM PIT, INC.;  Geoffrey Davidian, Plaintiffs-Appellants, v. CITY OF COOKEVILLE, TENNESSEE;  Jim Shipley, Defendants-Appellees
    No. 98-6438 (Sixth Circuit).

    As for your polling place story, it sounds like a case in the Gemara (I can’t find exactly where right now) where someone who hadn’t come to a certain bet midrash in thirteen years suddenly showed up to clear up a subject of debate. Maybe you should put it in one of those hashgacha peratit books.

    #1981164
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    You defeated your own argument when you wrote that the government can create public forums on the internet. If the Government creates the forum, it is Government action and the First Amendment applies.
    Back in the early days of the internet, when we paid to belong/use the bulletin boards such as Compuserve, AOL, etc. The Interstate Commerce Clause might have applied. BUT, when there is no fee for Facebook, Instagram or Twitter it would be a far stretch to call participation Interstate Commerce.
    There are thousands of FB groups that are geographically local in scope. I am the admin or moderator of a number of them that require proof of local residency to join and/or participate. No Interstate Commerce there. My Democratic Town Committee has a private FB group. Only members of the DTC, who must be registered voters in the Town can see the group and participate, again nothing Interstate about it.

    #1981177

    to borrow a phrase: Government spent money creating ARPAnet and now Fbook is exploiting for profit. Zuck, you did not build it! I am not sure why humanity needs to offer control over their thoughts to corporations instead of writing on open internet, like this site does. Fbook then is free to index that and provide ad-based interface to the free postings.

    CTL, I agree on liberal Republicans, still not sure whether lots of Jews voted them, maybe in CT they did. My Father O’H felt unease when he saw the mother of a CT Jewish D- politician – she presumed everyone voted for him and my father did not want to disappoint her.

    #1981275
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL,
    1. You are correct if you mean that the government cannot make it only a public forum for liberals. However, it makes no sense to say that if they create a public forum they cannot create it because of the First Amendment.
    2. What does paying have to do with it? Are you saying that they cannot prohibit the sending of WMOs as gifts? BTW, what about applying anti-discrimination legislation to purely local businesses like so out-of-the-way diner?

    #1981283
    Avi K
    Participant

    Correction: WMDs

    #1981315
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Always
    “I am not sure why humanity needs to offer control over their thoughts to corporations instead of writing on open internet, like this site does. ”

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YWN decides who can join/post, edits/moderates, approves/rejects posts posts. Ascribing First Amendment Rights would force posting of non-conforming religious content, sexually explicit content, anti-Semitic opinion, etc.

    BTW, I don’t know the business structure of YWN, it might be a corporation (or not).
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    In 1967 Joseph Einhorn ran for Mayor of New Haven on the Republican ticket. His wife had gone to Hunter College with my mother and played Mah Jongg with her on Thursdays night. Although, Democratic Ward Chairman and Chairlady, my parents voted for Joe. He lost, but so has every Republican city wide candidate in New Haven since 1953

    #1981432
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL,
    1. YWN is not general social media.
    2. They could be designated limited public forums. See “Restricting Speech in the Limited Public Forum” put out by the UMKC law school.
    3. You are correct that some FB groups are local but so are some restaurants. Yet they are subject to federal anti-discrimination laws if even one morsel came from out-of-state (Katzenbach v. McClung, 379 U.S. 294 (1964)). In any case, the public forum would be FB not the group.

    #1981451
    Avi K
    Participant

    Today, liberal Republicans are called RINOs (Republicans In Name Only). I, BTW, would write the former NYC Mayor’s name L—-y. In my family his name was mud. He destroyed NYC.

    #1981575
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    Restaurants are places of public accommodation, which is why they are subject to the civil rights laws. Even if not one morsel of food crossed state lines. They operate with licenses from health department and subject to inspection.

    #1981581
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    “CTL,
    1. You are correct if you mean that the government cannot make it only a public forum for liberals. However, it makes no sense to say that if they create a public forum they cannot create it because of the First Amendment.”
    This is not what I wrote. If the government creates the forum it IS subject to the First Amendment (creation is Government Action_.
    #2…what does paying have to do with it? If the forum (such as CompuServe or Aol in the old days) took fees from people in other states than their HQ it was Interstate Commerce and could be attacked under those rules. Gifts are not considered commerce (although the purchase and deliver may be commerce and interstate).

    #1981588
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @AviK
    My parents left NYC in 1952. My grandparents were alive and living in NYC during the Lindsay administration and supported him, not so my aunt who lived in Queens during the snow removal debacle. He was mayor during the time that all northern US cities were falling apart; post Civil Rights Act, White Flight, Race Riots and departure of manufacturing for the cheaper sunbelt states.

    I had only one personal interaction with him, back in 1970. He was seated in the row with my grandmother (Lindsay was next to her), mother and myself at the funeral of Jeffery Miller (my 3rd cousin who was murdered by the Illinois National Guard at Kent State). he was most solicitous and when my grandmother began to faint he had his staff remove her to his limo to rest and revive. My grandmother had traveled by public transit to the funeral (we had come from CT) and Lindsay had her transported home by a city detective in his vehicle.

    #1981641

    CTL, I mean the software protocol, not the business structure. www is accessible to everyone. You don’t need a company like facebook to access postings. Search engine can index them. If one search engine downgrades sites, you can switch to another search engine. If ywn is too restrictive, you can create your own website and post there. In contrast, fbook and twitter own the data itself. People volunteer to post on the private property, so “we the people” are at fault for losing freedom of speech.

    Somehow millions of people were following Trump on twitter. They could as well read his blog, but it appears too hard for many ..

    #1981761
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Always
    I have never used twitter or instagram
    I use FB only when our town is streaming a meeting via FB Live or to check our DTC group for announcements, I haven’t used it for social media type uses, I have the discipline not to get sucked into the shmutz, but I wouldn;t want my grandchildren using FB or TikTok

    #1981849
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL,

    1. Did you read the decision? You can see it on Oyez. One basis was food coming from out of state. Another basis was that in general discrimination discourages blacks from travelling to certain places. You are going even further in raping the Constitution. According to your thesis, if a person got a property tax abatement Congress can regulate his yard sale.

    2. You are having another senior moment. It was the Ohio National Guard. I looked up Jeffrey Miler. He was cremated and the ashes placed in Ferncliff Cemetery. Getting there by public transportation involves a number of buses plus an eighteen-minute walk. Another possibility is a train plus a taxi.

    3. Lindsay coddled criminals and rioters at City College. It was on his watch that what was once “the proletarian Harvard” developed an inferior reputation because of open admissions. Most of those admitted were sorely disillusioned because they could not handle the academic demands. He only won re-election because the anti-Lindsay vote was split (he lost the Republican primary and ran on the Liberal party line. BTW, my father voted for the Democratic candidate and my mother voted for the GOP candidate. The year before my father voted for Nixon and my mother voted for Humphrey. In those days it was no big deal to disagree on politics.

    #1981932
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Avik
    You are correct about Ohio Nat’l Guard, not quite a senior moment, but I had been working on a trust for a client’s family in Illinois and had typed it so many times, it just flowed.
    We went to the Service, not the cemetery.

    Property Tax is local, not federal. so your stretch doesn’t apply. A yard or tag sale at a home is not at a place of public accommodation with licenses from Health Department, Sales tax permit, etc.

    As I said, we didn’t live in the city and the funeral service was my sole interaction with Lindsay, so I pass no judgment on his prowess as mayor. Splitting ballots used to be more common in the past.

    Our Town Council is subject to minority party representation rules. We have 7 districts, each represented by 3 Council members. A party may only run 2 candidates and win only two seats maximum. So if I vote for two Ds, I then vote for one of the two Rs on the ballot. In our district, this year, I detest one of the Rs and will vote for the other, who I merely dislike

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