The future of the democracy of the U.S. government

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Viewing 16 posts - 51 through 66 (of 66 total)
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  • #1982097
    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL, Health Department, sales tax, etc. are also local. BTW, there was a case where a little girl in London was fined and shut down for illegally selling lemonade. I don’t know if that ever happened in the US. I do know that Louisiana has a licensing requirement for flower arrangers, which is now being challenged. Los Angelos County has a licensing requirement for yard sales.

    #2059106
    yungermanS
    Participant

    How much worse is the democracy and freedom in the USA today then before Biden became President?

    #2059326
    charliehall
    Participant

    “YWN is not general social media.”

    No difference between YWN and any other social media outlet. Anyone can sign up to participate.

    You would require YWN to accept comments from Christian missionaries, neo-Nazis, Nation of Islam racists, and Hamas apologists. They all have First Amendment rights. So do Reform Rabbis and Jews for Jesus. There would be no more frum internet. Essentially you want to strip away First Amendment rights of every person running a business in the US.

    #2059328
    charliehall
    Participant

    “everyone is staying home from work as they continue to collect unemployment from the government.”

    That isn’t true. The extended COVID unemployment benefits are history.

    “Why should a person go work if they can get free money?”

    Why should a person go to work when he/she has to deal with abusive customers, insensitive bosses, unvaccinated unmasked coworkers, zero ventilation office buildings, and inadequate pay? Not to mention the usual horrible traffic and overcrowded subways.

    A lot of folks have decided to take early retirement. A lot of folks have decided to spend more time with their families. A lot of women are homeschooling their kids. What is wrong with that?

    #2059329
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Dr. Fauci and Bill gates together came up with this Coronavirus pandemic plan together quietly to bring it upon the nation”

    Pure vile motzi shem ra.

    “Time for klal yisroel to come together for serious teshuva and achdus”

    How about starting by apologizing for your lies to Dr. Fauci and Bill Gates, and for your false statements about unemployment? Your post is an example of something that destroys achdus!

    #2059379
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Ironically, al pi din if you were to, in the presence of another jew, accuse a Jew of saying motzi shem ra, you would be in fact violating motzi shem ra if the subject of the original slander was a non jew, as there is no issur of hotzaas shem ra/lashon hora/rechilus on non jews. So saying a Jew violated the issur would be lashon hora if true (i.e. he actually said LH on a jew) and MSR if he didn’t (which in our case, he did not, as fauci and gates are not Jewish)

    #2059380
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Also, can you explain how a lie(or alleged lie in our case) regarding something outside the Jewish community causes a rift in achdus? Do you believe in having achdus with goyim, and when lies are told regarding them, it will damage said achdus?

    #2059398
    ujm
    Participant

    Fech. Hall is an Avi Weiss apikorus adherent.

    #2059417
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Ujm, i try to keep the discussions focused on the issue, not the gavra – i demonstrated the falsity of what was said; there’s no need to make it personal

    #2059431

    Avira > there is no issur of hotzaas shem ra/lashon hora/rechilus on non jews.

    I like these technical discussions trying to justify lies, distortions, violence, and pure ignorance. I was not aware that when Hsahem called us am segula and kadosh there was an asterisk with a list of exemptions.

    #2059450
    ujm
    Participant

    Avira, I’m not sure I agree with you. If a Reform Jew posted on this site would you entertain his Reform views and engage in a conversation whether the Orthodox or Reform views are more correct? If not, I don’t see why engaging with the above Open Orthodox adherent is any different.

    #2059460
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    I wouldn’t engage in a discussion where there’s an impression that there are two ideas and mine happens to be correct; i also wouldn’t enter a discussion where the person is advocating thosr movements explicitly. If someone has a mistaken hashkofa which happens to align with, say, Christianity, i don’t see the issue in addressing it in an anonymous forum where the chashash of paker tfei wouldn’t necessarily apply (as the mods wouldn’t allow someone saying overtly reform and conservative denial of torah).

    #2059453
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    AAQ, equating lying or slander with violence is nor accurate. But you touched on an extremely important hashkofa topic that needs to be said – it’s really worth its own thread.

    Middos and mussar are tempered and guided by halacha (see sefer emunah ubitachon by the chazon ish; it’s one of his central themes). What mussar engenders in a person needs to be mugdar, defined and put into the parameters of halacha. For instance, says the chazon ish, mussar teaches us to have mercy on the oppressed and to defend them. However, it’s halacha that comes and defines for us who is the rodef and who is the nirdaf. In his case of melamdim who are established in a town, and who are losing their parnosa to newcomers who steal their business, the instinct of the baal mussar who is not educated in halacha is to defend the old melamdim. Hasagas gevul! Will they scream. They will say lashon hora on the newcomers, petition cherem, make public machlokes. All of which would be justified…if halacha said that they were defending the nirdaf. Halacha in that case is the opposite – kinas sofrim tarbeh chochma mandates that there is no taanah of pasakta lichiusi, of hasagas gvul, because the competition creates better teaching. The glorification and better study of Torah is more important than thw individual parnosa of a yid, explains the heiligeh chazon ish.

    Same thing here. We all learn midddos when we are young. I can still hear the marvelous middos machine in my head as if i heard it yesterday. Gevaldig! Working on our middos, says the Gra, is the purpose of our existence (in many ways). However here too, the seep feelings we should have about the evils of lashon hora must ve limited to what halacha considers lashon hora. Failure to do so results in….saying lashon hora itself! Saying about a jew “Reuven is guilty of motzi shem ra…i heard it myself” is itself MSR on Reuven if the topic of Reuven’s discussion was not a Jew.

    Comes the visceral response…the knee jerk reaction of the miseducated. “Just because someone isn’t Jewish you think you can do what you want???”

    This attitude belies two fundamentally incorrect assumptions, aside from it being against halacha. The deep seated feeling stems from the assumption that the difference between the two is merely a creed, a race, or a personal belief system. Therefore, judaism feels “racist”. This is coming straight from zionism, which convinced the masses that the jews are a nationality. We are not. We are a group of God’s treasured Torah nation, defined solely by our connection to and adherence of the Torah. Those who are not part of that nation, are different.

    #2059517
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “I was not aware that when Hsahem called us am segula and kadosh there was an asterisk with a list of exemptions.”

    Hashem called us (the jews) the am segula and kadosh and you didn’t realize a non jew was an exemption?

    If only you applied your unrelenting insistence on legitimacy and respected authority for religion in the way you do it for covid…

    #2059570
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Stsg, to be fair, I don’t think he meant that they are considered am segulah – i think he meant that he thinks that there shouldn’t be exceptions as to the applications of our lofty values. This too is incorrect, and against halacha.

    #2059779

    Avira,
    I agree with you that being rachman to the cruel with lead to the opposite, etc. And have no problem with your example on competition and innate desire to defend. I don’t think though that the choice is usually that sharp. I often see gratuitous rudeness as an expression of Judaism, when one could simply discuss the underlying issue instead of focusing on personalities.

    Mussar teaches us to verify personal biases. Example: R Meltzer was not sure whether to write a recommendation to a student. He wrote it and then threw it away. Why? He was afraid that a consideration of saving time/effort was affecting his decision. If such a refined person questions his own judgment, so should we. So, if I or you have a tendency to judge people or groups of people, then you need to double-check before coming to a conclusion.

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